wanted to drive my 600 in the morning yesterday, barely made it around
the block. I let it warm up for about 10 min but it was very
sputtery. It was about 35-40 outside. Any suggestions how to get this
thing rinning on cold days?
cold morning and the 600
-
howardsugarman
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:36 am
Re: cold morning and the 600
Just run it around the bloack and have your AAA card
ready! hehe, j/k
--- infinkc wrote:
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch ... y=shopping
ready! hehe, j/k
--- infinkc wrote:
Looking for last minute shopping deals?> wanted to drive my 600 in the morning yesterday,
> barely made it around
> the block. I let it warm up for about 10 min but it
> was very
> sputtery. It was about 35-40 outside. Any
> suggestions how to get this
> thing rinning on cold days?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch ... y=shopping
Re: cold morning and the 600
The problem you are having with your 600 is not normal. I have driven the cars in colder temperatures without problems. Assuming the car runs properly when the temperature is warmer, here are some things to check:
1) By 1971 the 600s (sold in USA) were fitted with a lever on air cleaner which allowed the air being drawn into the carb to be preheated by the heat exchanger. The lever had a summer/winter position. Put it in the winter position and double-check the hose to the heat exchanger is not damaged or restricted. Also, are you getting warm air from the heater inside the car? If not, you may have a problem with your heat exchanger. If your temperature is below 50 degrees and you do not preheat the air, carburetor icing can occur.
2) You may have a "weak" ignition system. The item which I would suspect would be the spark plug wires running from the coil to the plugs.
3) Any chance of water in the gas? You can disconnect the fuel line going to the carb and let the fuel pump deliver a sample of gas into a clear jar (e.g. glass). The gas should look clean and clear. No bubbles or froth or droplets of water should be present.
good luck,
Dale
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1) By 1971 the 600s (sold in USA) were fitted with a lever on air cleaner which allowed the air being drawn into the carb to be preheated by the heat exchanger. The lever had a summer/winter position. Put it in the winter position and double-check the hose to the heat exchanger is not damaged or restricted. Also, are you getting warm air from the heater inside the car? If not, you may have a problem with your heat exchanger. If your temperature is below 50 degrees and you do not preheat the air, carburetor icing can occur.
2) You may have a "weak" ignition system. The item which I would suspect would be the spark plug wires running from the coil to the plugs.
3) Any chance of water in the gas? You can disconnect the fuel line going to the carb and let the fuel pump deliver a sample of gas into a clear jar (e.g. glass). The gas should look clean and clear. No bubbles or froth or droplets of water should be present.
good luck,
Dale
It's Tax Time!> wanted
> to drive my 600 in the morning yesterday, barely made it around > the block.
> I let it warm up for about 10 min but it was very
> sputtery. It was about
> 35-40 outside. Any suggestions how to get this
> thing rinning on cold
> days?
Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
Re: cold morning and the 600
thanks ill give those items a look, mine is a 70 so ill have to check
for the winter lever. I do get heat inside the car. This was the
first time driving the car in about 3 months so the gas can be bad
also. Looks like i got some tuning to do this weekend.
for the winter lever. I do get heat inside the car. This was the
first time driving the car in about 3 months so the gas can be bad
also. Looks like i got some tuning to do this weekend.
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> The problem you are having with your 600 is not normal. I have
driven the
> cars in colder temperatures without problems. Assuming the car
runs properly
> when the temperature is warmer, here are some things to check:
> 1) By 1971 the 600s (sold in USA) were fitted with a lever on
air cleaner
> which allowed the air being drawn into the carb to be preheated by
the heat
> exchanger. The lever had a summer/winter position. Put it in the
winter
> position and double-check the hose to the heat exchanger is not
damaged or
> restricted. Also, are you getting warm air from the heater
inside the car? If
> not, you may have a problem with your heat exchanger. If your
temperature is
> below 50 degrees and you do not preheat the air, carburetor icing
can occur.
> 2) You may have a "weak" ignition system. The item which I
would suspect
> would be the spark plug wires running from the coil to the plugs.
> 3) Any chance of water in the gas? You can disconnect the fuel
line
> going to the carb and let the fuel pump deliver a sample of gas
into a clear jar
> (e.g. glass). The gas should look clean and clear. No bubbles or
froth or
> droplets of water should be present.
> good luck,
> Dale
> wanted to drive my 600 in the morning yesterday, barely made it
around
> the block. I let it warm up for about 10 min but it was very
> sputtery. It was about 35-40 outside. Any suggestions how to get
this
> thing rinning on cold days?
> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
Money &
> Finance. (
http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Re: cold morning and the 600
If your 1970 N600 is stock, it will not have a winter lever on the air horn of the cleaner. It should be wide open at the inlet and have a hose at right angle to the horn which attaches to a port on the fan housing.
For the temperature you described, I don't think the problem is carb icing and it would have been fine after the engine warmed up since it gets pretty warm under the hood of these cars.
good luck,
Dale
PS if the car has been sitting for 3 months, the carb may be "gunked" up and you may need to remove the carb's float bowl to inspect the condition of the carb, its jets, needle & seat.
Three months of sitting is not usually a problem but I have noticed the extra alcohol being blended into the gasoline does cause more problems since alcohol does a good job of absorbing moisture in the air and introducing it into the fuel which can lead to separation.
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For the temperature you described, I don't think the problem is carb icing and it would have been fine after the engine warmed up since it gets pretty warm under the hood of these cars.
good luck,
Dale
PS if the car has been sitting for 3 months, the carb may be "gunked" up and you may need to remove the carb's float bowl to inspect the condition of the carb, its jets, needle & seat.
Three months of sitting is not usually a problem but I have noticed the extra alcohol being blended into the gasoline does cause more problems since alcohol does a good job of absorbing moisture in the air and introducing it into the fuel which can lead to separation.
It's Tax Time!> thanks
> ill give those items a look, mine is a 70 so ill have to check > for the > winter lever. I do get heat inside the car. This was the > first time > driving the car in about 3 months so the gas can be bad > also. Looks like i > got some tuning to do this weekend.
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Re: cold morning and the 600
i tried to start the car in warm weather and now all it would do was
crank :( it did back fire once when i gave it more throttle. I took
the carb off and its clean as can be (have a newer carb not the 70
moddel). the gas is a yelowish color, almost like apple juice, i did
a search and couldnt come up what bad gas looks like, i didnt see any
bubbles, looked clear to me.
crank :( it did back fire once when i gave it more throttle. I took
the carb off and its clean as can be (have a newer carb not the 70
moddel). the gas is a yelowish color, almost like apple juice, i did
a search and couldnt come up what bad gas looks like, i didnt see any
bubbles, looked clear to me.
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> If your 1970 N600 is stock, it will not have a winter lever on
the air horn
> of the cleaner. It should be wide open at the inlet and have a
hose at
> right angle to the horn which attaches to a port on the fan
housing.
> For the temperature you described, I don't think the problem is
carb icing
> and it would have been fine after the engine warmed up since it
gets pretty
> warm under the hood of these cars.
> good luck,
> Dale
> PS if the car has been sitting for 3 months, the carb may
be "gunked" up
> and you may need to remove the carb's float bowl to inspect the
condition of
> the carb, its jets, needle & seat. Three months of sitting is
not usually
> a problem but I have noticed the extra alcohol being blended into
the
> gasoline does cause more problems since alcohol does a good job of
absorbing
> moisture in the air and introducing it into the fuel which can
lead to separation.
> thanks ill give those items a look, mine is a 70 so ill have to
check
> for the winter lever. I do get heat inside the car. This was the
> first time driving the car in about 3 months so the gas can be bad
> also. Looks like i got some tuning to do this weekend.
> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
Money &
> Finance. (
http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Re: cold morning and the 600
OK...time to interpret the results. Here goes:
1) Your carb seems to be ok. It worked fine 3 months ago and the car has been unused until this week. When you mention the carb looks clean, I am assuming you did find gas in the bowl and it was not dry. If the bowl was not full of fuel, then your fuel pump may not be working properly or the the filter is clogged (you have one filter near the pump and a mesh filter in the carb which is under the needle and seat).
2) Gas seems to be okay. If the gas has been sitting in the tank for 3 months, it has lost some of its volatile compounds (the ones which evaporate easily at low temperatures so the mixture is easier to ignite).
3) Your comment about the engine backfiring when you work the throttle leads me toward suspecting a problem in the area of fuel or ignition.
When I have been in your situation (and I have been there many times), I know it takes 4 things for the engine to work......air, fuel, compression, and ignition. I do the following steps:
a) remove the cover off the air cleaner and take out the filter so I know the engine is getting air
b) check the engine compression (squirt some oil in each cylinder before testing). Are both cylinders reading at least 125 psi and within 10% of each other? If not, you have an engine problem. I would like to see the cylinder compression around 160 psi but at this point, if I am seeing at least 125 psi, that is enough compression to fire the engine and if I can get it running and let it heat up, check the compression again when it is hot and see if the reading is closer to 160 psi.
c) to check the ignition, I start by cleaning the 2 spark plugs or replacing them with 2 new ones (better method). Check the plug gap (.030 - .032 inches). I then connect the spark plug wires to the plugs and ground the threaded part of the plug to the engine. Using a remote starter (or have a friend help you), start cranking the engine. You should see a bright white spark at each plug. If you don't see a spark or it is very weak (e.g. one faint line of spark), you probably have a problem in your ignition system and it could be dirty points, bad condenser, faulty wiring, lack of 12 volts to the ignition, bad coil, ignition switch problem, or faulty spark plug wires or spark plug connector.
d) verify the solenoid on the carb is working. When you turn the ignition switch to the run position you should hear a click at the carb. Also, you can remove the solenoid (it is held in place by one screw) and verify the pin is retracting when the ignition is "on".
e) Try starting the car. If it still doesn't start then desperate times demand desperate measures. This is where I use a spray can of starting fluid. At this point I know the engine is getting air, it has compression, and I know the ignition seems to work. What I don't know is whether my fuel is really good and if the ignition is working properly when under compression. If this engine has any chance of starting, the starting fluid will make it talk. If it starts and runs fine, then your fuel was the problem....probably stale gas which was lacking the volatile components. If it just sputters or backfires or does nothing, I would suspect the ignition system. If it runs for a few seconds and then quits and it does the same thing when you give it another shot of starting fluid, you have a problem in the carb or fuel delivery system or no fuel in the car.
When I use the starting fluid, I will remove the air filter and spray a shot into the air cleaner housing. I then lay the top cover back on it. I usually do not attach the wing nuts which hold it down. A word of caution when using starting fluid ...... it is extremely volatile and if your engine has ignition problems, it can cause a mini-explosion which will pop off the air cleaner cover and you may get a fire in the air cleaner if the engine backfires. The reason I don't fasten down the air cleaner is because I want quick access to the air cleaner to put out any fires which may start. When using the starting fluid, I always have the car outside away from anything of value, a garden hose with a spray attachment nearby, a bucket of water, several thick towels, and two fire extinguishers. I have never lost a car but I have had several occasions where I have used the towels to blot out the fire and twice I have had to dump a bucket of water onto the air cleaner. I have never had to use the fire extinguisher (come close a couple times) and it is my last resort because the CO2 powder makes a big mess. Most of the time when I experience a small fire, just letting the engine continue to crank will extinguish the fire since the air stream cools it down.
Good luck,
Dale
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1) Your carb seems to be ok. It worked fine 3 months ago and the car has been unused until this week. When you mention the carb looks clean, I am assuming you did find gas in the bowl and it was not dry. If the bowl was not full of fuel, then your fuel pump may not be working properly or the the filter is clogged (you have one filter near the pump and a mesh filter in the carb which is under the needle and seat).
2) Gas seems to be okay. If the gas has been sitting in the tank for 3 months, it has lost some of its volatile compounds (the ones which evaporate easily at low temperatures so the mixture is easier to ignite).
3) Your comment about the engine backfiring when you work the throttle leads me toward suspecting a problem in the area of fuel or ignition.
When I have been in your situation (and I have been there many times), I know it takes 4 things for the engine to work......air, fuel, compression, and ignition. I do the following steps:
a) remove the cover off the air cleaner and take out the filter so I know the engine is getting air
b) check the engine compression (squirt some oil in each cylinder before testing). Are both cylinders reading at least 125 psi and within 10% of each other? If not, you have an engine problem. I would like to see the cylinder compression around 160 psi but at this point, if I am seeing at least 125 psi, that is enough compression to fire the engine and if I can get it running and let it heat up, check the compression again when it is hot and see if the reading is closer to 160 psi.
c) to check the ignition, I start by cleaning the 2 spark plugs or replacing them with 2 new ones (better method). Check the plug gap (.030 - .032 inches). I then connect the spark plug wires to the plugs and ground the threaded part of the plug to the engine. Using a remote starter (or have a friend help you), start cranking the engine. You should see a bright white spark at each plug. If you don't see a spark or it is very weak (e.g. one faint line of spark), you probably have a problem in your ignition system and it could be dirty points, bad condenser, faulty wiring, lack of 12 volts to the ignition, bad coil, ignition switch problem, or faulty spark plug wires or spark plug connector.
d) verify the solenoid on the carb is working. When you turn the ignition switch to the run position you should hear a click at the carb. Also, you can remove the solenoid (it is held in place by one screw) and verify the pin is retracting when the ignition is "on".
e) Try starting the car. If it still doesn't start then desperate times demand desperate measures. This is where I use a spray can of starting fluid. At this point I know the engine is getting air, it has compression, and I know the ignition seems to work. What I don't know is whether my fuel is really good and if the ignition is working properly when under compression. If this engine has any chance of starting, the starting fluid will make it talk. If it starts and runs fine, then your fuel was the problem....probably stale gas which was lacking the volatile components. If it just sputters or backfires or does nothing, I would suspect the ignition system. If it runs for a few seconds and then quits and it does the same thing when you give it another shot of starting fluid, you have a problem in the carb or fuel delivery system or no fuel in the car.
When I use the starting fluid, I will remove the air filter and spray a shot into the air cleaner housing. I then lay the top cover back on it. I usually do not attach the wing nuts which hold it down. A word of caution when using starting fluid ...... it is extremely volatile and if your engine has ignition problems, it can cause a mini-explosion which will pop off the air cleaner cover and you may get a fire in the air cleaner if the engine backfires. The reason I don't fasten down the air cleaner is because I want quick access to the air cleaner to put out any fires which may start. When using the starting fluid, I always have the car outside away from anything of value, a garden hose with a spray attachment nearby, a bucket of water, several thick towels, and two fire extinguishers. I have never lost a car but I have had several occasions where I have used the towels to blot out the fire and twice I have had to dump a bucket of water onto the air cleaner. I have never had to use the fire extinguisher (come close a couple times) and it is my last resort because the CO2 powder makes a big mess. Most of the time when I experience a small fire, just letting the engine continue to crank will extinguish the fire since the air stream cools it down.
Good luck,
Dale
It's Tax Time!> i
> tried to start the car in warm weather and now all it would do was > crank > :( it did back fire once when i gave it more throttle. I took > the carb off > and its clean as can be (have a newer carb not the 70 > moddel). the gas is > a yelowish color, almost like apple juice, i did > a search and couldnt come > up what bad gas looks like, i didnt see any > bubbles, looked clear to > me.
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Re: cold morning and the 600
Dale,
wow thanks a million what a great reply!
went out and cleaned the carb out and then did a compression test,
measured abour 145 each cyl. Took the plugs out and tested for spark,
one side good, the other zero spark! swapped plugs and the problem
followed the plugs. Then it dawned on me that i bought new plugs! but
forgot to install them last time i did an oil change and tune. Gapped
them and put them in and the car started instantly! Still have to
adjust the carb since its running a tad rich. Thanks! Kris
wow thanks a million what a great reply!
went out and cleaned the carb out and then did a compression test,
measured abour 145 each cyl. Took the plugs out and tested for spark,
one side good, the other zero spark! swapped plugs and the problem
followed the plugs. Then it dawned on me that i bought new plugs! but
forgot to install them last time i did an oil change and tune. Gapped
them and put them in and the car started instantly! Still have to
adjust the carb since its running a tad rich. Thanks! Kris
-
tommyjayallen
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:26 am
Re: cold morning and the 600
The lever he is referring to is on later 71 & 72 models. A 70 would not have this unless later parts were installed. (not uncommon). Is your choke working properly? I find mine requires the choke on cold mornings untill the engine warms.
infinkc wrote:
infinkc wrote:
> thanks ill give those items a look, mine is a 70 so ill have to check > for the winter lever. I do get heat inside the car. This was the > first time driving the car in about 3 months so the gas can be bad > also. Looks like i got some tuning to do this weekend.
> ---
> In
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> , goinhm@... wrote:
> > The problem you are having with your 600 is not normal. I have > driven the > > cars in colder temperatures without problems. Assuming the car > runs properly > > when the temperature is warmer, here are some things to check:
> > 1) By 1971 the 600s (sold in USA) were fitted with a lever on > air cleaner > > which allowed the air being drawn into the carb to be preheated by > the heat > > exchanger. The lever had a summer/winter position. Put it in the > winter > > position and double-check the hose to the heat exchanger is not > damaged or > > restricted. Also, are you getting warm air from the heater > inside the car? If > > not, you may have a problem with your heat exchanger. If your > temperature is > > below 50 degrees and you do not preheat the air, > carburetor icing > can occur.
> > 2) You may have a "weak" ignition system. The item which I > would suspect > > would be the spark plug wires running from the coil to the plugs.
> > 3) Any chance of water in the gas? You can disconnect the fuel > line > > going to the carb and let the fuel pump deliver a sample of gas > into a clear jar > > (e.g. glass). The gas should look clean and clear. No bubbles or > froth or > > droplets of water should be present.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > wanted to drive my 600 in the morning yesterday, barely made it > around > > the block. I let it warm up for about 10 min but it was very > > sputtery. It was about 35-40 outside. Any suggestions how to get > this > > thing rinning on cold days?
> > ************ **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
> Money &
> > Finance. (
> http://money. aol.com/tax? NCID=aolprf00030 000000001
> )
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