stuck in the middle of a tuneup

mterrens · Post by **mterrens** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:09 pm

OK, I scraped the crud and calcification off the rectifier, removed the three old cable ends (tons of solder on there!), painted the battery tray, built new cables and put it all back together. It's all good and moving down the street as it should! I checked the new connectors after 30 minutes of driving - no unusual heat buildup.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> goinhm@...
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:32
> PM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: stuck
> in the middle of a tuneup
> Hi Mike,
>     No maintenance is necessary for the rectifier.
> It either works or it doesn't.
> You might keep it clean, though. As a result of the current through > it, it may
> generate several watts of heat.
>      I don't think Steve is having a problem with the
> rectifier. I think he is experiencing
> intermittent shorting where one (or more) of the 3 white wires from the > alternator is
> shorting to the chassis or shorting to one of its neighboring white > wires. This causes
> the alternator to have to generate a lot of current and the motor doesn't > have enough
> hp to sustain it.   I think Steve could have disconnected his > alternator, taped off the wires from
> the alternator, and started his car and driven home. The > battery power would have been
> sufficient to keep the car running till he arrived home (especially if he > wasn't using headlights).
> Dale
> > Is there any
> > maintenance that needs to be done to the rectifier?
> > Mike
> It's only a deal if it's where
> you
> want to go. Find your travel deal
> here
> .
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG -
> http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 -
> Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM

friend · Post by **friend** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:05 am

Hi Steve;
Just got back on line, dealing with Gustov and watching the RNC rather than doing e-mail.
Dale has it right about grounding out. But normally we do this to our selves by allowing the ends of the three white wires coming from the stator to touch. The best fix and a maintenance for all Honda 600 owners is to look at the wires coming from the brushes and stator.
Insulate each at the connection points and bound together. Honda had an 8 inch section of rubber tubing to cover all of it and route on the inside of the engine mount cross bar up to the body. Routing the wires correctly and insulating them properly will keep every thing safe.
As the the voltage increasing with the engine speed comment by JN, that is not a normal condition. Alternators should be constant. Check your wires coming from the rectifier for insulation damage. (note factory wrapping is not like electrical tape, it has no gum on it) sometimes this will become damaged over the years and will allow the wires to chaff against the wire run tangs. Also look at the black wire on the voltage regulator connection. The connector can become corroded and loose contact creating resistance which will result in heat causing the insulation to melt. Remember, without knowing what caused the problem doing the same thing will only give you the same results.
Bill

Kevin Lister · Post by **Kevin Lister** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:58 pm

How does the voltage at the battery look at idle? At higher RPM's?
kev

--- On
Thu, 9/4/08, Steven Michelsen

wrote:
From: Steven Michelsen
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: stuck in the middle of a tuneup To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com, 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 7:09 PM
OK, I scraped the crud and calcification off the rectifier, removed the three old cable ends (tons of solder on there!), painted the battery tray, built new cables and put it all back together. It's all good and moving down the street as it should!   I checked the new connectors after 30 minutes of driving - no unusual heat buildup.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> goinhm@...
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent:
> Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:32 PM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: stuck in the middle of a tuneup
> Hi Mike,
>     No maintenance is necessary for the rectifier. It either works or it doesn't.
> You might keep it clean, though. As a result of the current through it, it may
> generate several watts of heat.
>      I don't think Steve is having a problem with the rectifier. I think he is experiencing
> intermittent shorting where one (or more) of the 3 white wires from the alternator is
> shorting to the chassis or shorting to one of its neighboring white wires. This causes
> the alternator to have to generate a lot of current and the motor doesn't have enough
> hp to sustain it.   I think Steve could have disconnected his alternator, taped off the wires from
> the alternator, and started his car and driven home. The battery power would have been
> sufficient to keep the car running till he arrived home (especially if he wasn't using headlights).
> Dale
> > Is there any maintenance that needs to be done to the rectifier?
> Mike

It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here .
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM

Kevin Lister · Post by **Kevin Lister** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:06 pm

No sweat!
I think my regulator was fiddled with as well. It just wouldn't keep the battery charged. I adjusted it and it was better. Then it started to act up again. So, I cleaned the points and adjusted it again. It was ok for awhile but then it fried the battery and the wires!
Best wishes on your project!
kev

--- On
Thu, 9/4/08, geez_tech

wrote:
From: geez_tech
Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: stuck in the middle of a tuneup To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 1:11 PM
Thanks Kevin and Dale,
Once I get mine running again I will do some more checks, the cylinder head is off right now. If I adjust the regulator I will double check the voltage at high RPM's.
Maybe there is a high RPM adjustment on the regulator as that is its function, to control voltage. My regulator cover was removed when I bought my N600, so it may have been giving the previous owner some trouble and I did take apart the points plates and cleaned them as the charge light would not come on when turning on the key, this was fixed after I cleaned the points.
Mike
--- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, Kevin Lister
wrote:
> I just want to add my limited experience on this subject.
> I have noticed on my car that at idle the voltage at the battery
terminal is very low. Raising the RPMS brings the output up well over 13 volts. I've read the manual on the procedure to adjust the regulator. I even experimented on my original regulator. I adjusted the voltage but what I didn't know was that the voltage was excessive at higher RPM's. This damaged the regulator, my battery, and melted my wires. So, beware!
> All other cars I've ever looked at have a voltage of 13.8v on the battery terminal regardless of RPM. This is not the case for a Honda 600. I've measured mine and Miles measured one of his cars and we saw the same thing on each car. The voltage was below 13v at idle and above 13v at RPM. The reaons for this is due to the design of the alternator. It has nothing to do with the rectifier or regulator. The alternator of other cars spins real fast as it is belt driven and is not 1:1 with the engine revolutions.
The alternator of the 600 is
1:1 with the engine revolutions. This simply means that at low RPM the output voltage of the alternator is going to be low.
> Next time I am over at Mile's place I'll ask him if we can measure the voltage on the battery terminals of the 600's he has. I suspect that they will all behave the same: Low voltage at idle and higher at RPM.
> Also, I think the manual doesn't even specifiy testing the charging system by simply placing a voltmeter on the battery terminal. There's a procedure for doing so.
> Anywho, Miles gave me a regulator to put in my car. It too runs low voltage at low RPM and close to 14v at higher RPM. I've been running with it for quite awhile with absolutely no charging problems.
> I'm not suggesting that you don't try to adjust your regulator. I'm just saying that if you do there is a chance you can destroy the battery, your regluator and your wires! So, be careful. If you are having trouble keeping your battery charged then your charging system needs work or you need a fresh battery. If you are not experiencing any problems with your battery then I suggest you leave it the way it is!
> I think it would be interesting to get some numbers from group members. What is the voltage on your car at idle? :o)
> kev
> --- On Wed, 9/3/08, goinhm@... wrote:
> From: goinhm@...
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: stuck in the middle of a tuneup > To:
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 10:35 PM
> Hi
Mike,
> The alternator voltage is on the low side. It will work but your battery will not be at an optimum charge > and once you turn on the lights, you will not be at full brightness. Take a look at the n600 sedan shop manual. Starting at page 2-23 is the check out of the alternator and 2-25 deals with setting the voltage level at the regulator. The alternator output voltage will increase with increasing rpm (as you have seen).
> good luck,
> Dale
> I briefly checked my alternator when I got this running and found the voltage to be barely above battery voltage. It seemed like I had to raise the RPM�s quite a bit before it would reach 13 volts, it then dropped back down to just above battery voltage once it was at an idle again, shouldn�t this be a little better at idle?
> It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.