Can anybody tell me how to test my oil pump? I have it out of the engine and have tried moving the pump rod manually to test it but I have no way of determining the pump discharge volume It kind of "spits" with every stroke.
Thank you,
Tom
Oil Pump
-
franknfike
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:22 am
Re: Oil Pump
C'mon now - has nobody else run into this?
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "franknfike" wrote:
> Can anybody tell me how to test my oil pump? I have it out of the engine and have tried moving the pump rod manually to test it but I have no way of determining the pump discharge volume It kind of "spits" with every stroke.
> Thank you,
> Tom
Re: Oil Pump
Tom,
The Honda 600 sedan shop manual (available online from the group site) describes the testing of the oil pump. It states the volume is 3.1 liters per minute at 1000 rpm. So, each stroke of the pump is 3.1 ml. You would need to make a fixture to connect to the outlet port to collect the oil.
What I have done is to check the pump is:
1) clean up the pump and the screen filter.
2) shake it and listen for the ball to rattle (it is part of a check valve)
3) check the condition of the plunger piston and bore
4) wet the cylinder with oil and manually pump it. I should feel resistance on the piston shaft when it is trying to suck the oil into the pump body. When I push toward the pump body, I should feel the air pressure at the pump outlet (and see some spitting). If I push quickly, I should feel some resistance due to the air pressure build-up.
Step 4 is incidental....if steps 2 and 3 are ok, the pump has always worked for me. Check out the shaft which the piston connects to for straightness and wear. Check it against the eccentric on the primary drive where it connects.
The filter screen on the pump was made to be removed and replaced (if necessary). That may have been the case if this were the 70s or 1980s. Now I find these screens are too brittle to be removed without damaging the plastic
The way these pumps go bad when the car was run frequently was the oil pump cylinder bore would develop a deep groove from the floating piston pin riding against the aluminum wall and/or the clearance where the shaft rode on the primary drive eccentric would become excessive. Sometimes I have seen the filter screen get blocked because the owner did not keep the oil clean (or they had a failure in the engine which sent lots of aluminum filings into the crankcase and even though the problem may have been fixed on the top end, the metal filings stayed in the engine and accumulated at the filter screen.
At some time later, the oil pump failed).
If the car has been sitting for many years, the pump could be gunked from sitting in dirty oil. It might be salvaged through cleaning. If you see corrosion, I would not use it.
good luck,
Dale
The Honda 600 sedan shop manual (available online from the group site) describes the testing of the oil pump. It states the volume is 3.1 liters per minute at 1000 rpm. So, each stroke of the pump is 3.1 ml. You would need to make a fixture to connect to the outlet port to collect the oil.
What I have done is to check the pump is:
1) clean up the pump and the screen filter.
2) shake it and listen for the ball to rattle (it is part of a check valve)
3) check the condition of the plunger piston and bore
4) wet the cylinder with oil and manually pump it. I should feel resistance on the piston shaft when it is trying to suck the oil into the pump body. When I push toward the pump body, I should feel the air pressure at the pump outlet (and see some spitting). If I push quickly, I should feel some resistance due to the air pressure build-up.
Step 4 is incidental....if steps 2 and 3 are ok, the pump has always worked for me. Check out the shaft which the piston connects to for straightness and wear. Check it against the eccentric on the primary drive where it connects.
The filter screen on the pump was made to be removed and replaced (if necessary). That may have been the case if this were the 70s or 1980s. Now I find these screens are too brittle to be removed without damaging the plastic
The way these pumps go bad when the car was run frequently was the oil pump cylinder bore would develop a deep groove from the floating piston pin riding against the aluminum wall and/or the clearance where the shaft rode on the primary drive eccentric would become excessive. Sometimes I have seen the filter screen get blocked because the owner did not keep the oil clean (or they had a failure in the engine which sent lots of aluminum filings into the crankcase and even though the problem may have been fixed on the top end, the metal filings stayed in the engine and accumulated at the filter screen.
At some time later, the oil pump failed).
If the car has been sitting for many years, the pump could be gunked from sitting in dirty oil. It might be salvaged through cleaning. If you see corrosion, I would not use it.
good luck,
Dale
> C'mon
> now - has nobody else run into this?
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> ,
> "franknfike" wrote:
> > Can anybody
> tell me how to test my oil pump? I have it out of the engine and have tried > moving the pump rod manually to test it but I have no way of determining the > pump discharge volume It kind of "spits" with every > stroke.
Re: Oil Pump
Thank you Dale!! This is exactly the information I was looking for!
Tom Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From:
goinhm@...
Date:
Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:45:28 EDT
To:
Subject:
Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oil Pump
Tom,
The Honda 600 sedan shop manual (available online from the group site) describes the testing of the oil pump. It states the volume is 3.1 liters per minute at 1000 rpm. So, each stroke of the pump is 3.1 ml. You would need to make a fixture to connect to the outlet port to collect the oil.
What I have done is to check the pump is:
1) clean up the pump and the screen filter.
2) shake it and listen for the ball to rattle (it is part of a check valve)
3) check the condition of the plunger piston and bore
4) wet the cylinder with oil and manually pump it. I should feel resistance on the piston shaft when it is trying to suck the oil into the pump body. When I push toward the pump body, I should feel the air pressure at the pump outlet (and see some spitting). If I push quickly, I should feel some resistance due to the air pressure build-up.
Step 4 is incidental.. ..if steps 2 and 3 are ok, the pump has always worked for me. Check out the shaft which the piston connects to for straightness and wear. Check it against the eccentric on the primary drive where it connects.
The filter screen on the pump was made to be removed and replaced (if necessary). That may have been the case if this were the 70s or 1980s. Now I find these screens are too brittle to be removed without damaging the plastic
The way these pumps go bad when the car was run frequently was the oil pump cylinder bore would develop a deep groove from the floating piston pin riding against the aluminum wall and/or the clearance where the shaft rode on the primary drive eccentric would become excessive. Sometimes I have seen the filter screen get blocked because the owner did not keep the oil clean (or they had a failure in the engine which sent lots of aluminum filings into the crankcase and even though the problem may have been fixed on the top end, the metal filings stayed in the engine and accumulated at the filter screen.
At some time later, the oil pump failed).
If the car has been sitting for many years, the pump could be gunked from sitting in dirty oil. It might be salvaged through cleaning. If you see corrosion, I would not use it.
good luck,
Dale
Tom Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From:
goinhm@...
Date:
Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:45:28 EDT
To:
Subject:
Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oil Pump
Tom,
The Honda 600 sedan shop manual (available online from the group site) describes the testing of the oil pump. It states the volume is 3.1 liters per minute at 1000 rpm. So, each stroke of the pump is 3.1 ml. You would need to make a fixture to connect to the outlet port to collect the oil.
What I have done is to check the pump is:
1) clean up the pump and the screen filter.
2) shake it and listen for the ball to rattle (it is part of a check valve)
3) check the condition of the plunger piston and bore
4) wet the cylinder with oil and manually pump it. I should feel resistance on the piston shaft when it is trying to suck the oil into the pump body. When I push toward the pump body, I should feel the air pressure at the pump outlet (and see some spitting). If I push quickly, I should feel some resistance due to the air pressure build-up.
Step 4 is incidental.. ..if steps 2 and 3 are ok, the pump has always worked for me. Check out the shaft which the piston connects to for straightness and wear. Check it against the eccentric on the primary drive where it connects.
The filter screen on the pump was made to be removed and replaced (if necessary). That may have been the case if this were the 70s or 1980s. Now I find these screens are too brittle to be removed without damaging the plastic
The way these pumps go bad when the car was run frequently was the oil pump cylinder bore would develop a deep groove from the floating piston pin riding against the aluminum wall and/or the clearance where the shaft rode on the primary drive eccentric would become excessive. Sometimes I have seen the filter screen get blocked because the owner did not keep the oil clean (or they had a failure in the engine which sent lots of aluminum filings into the crankcase and even though the problem may have been fixed on the top end, the metal filings stayed in the engine and accumulated at the filter screen.
At some time later, the oil pump failed).
If the car has been sitting for many years, the pump could be gunked from sitting in dirty oil. It might be salvaged through cleaning. If you see corrosion, I would not use it.
good luck,
Dale
> C'mon
> now - has nobody else run into this?
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> ,
> "franknfike" wrote:
> > Can anybody
> tell me how to test my oil pump? I have it out of the engine and have tried > moving the pump rod manually to test it but I have no way of determining the > pump discharge volume It kind of "spits" with every > stroke.
Re: Oil Pump
Dale;
The Honda 600 oil pump rod is a case of an accident waiting to happen. Miles came out with a steel rod that when put together with a steel sleeve on the eccentric will last for a very long time.
I know, because I have had one in a sedan for a number of years and it is pumping great and the owner runs it all the time.
The air build up you are referring to is called cavitation, the build up of small bubbles along the sides if the piston or other moving parts as the liquid flows past the metal surfaces. Because there is no pressure there is no problem with cavatation as it will not reduce flow because all the bearing surfaces fed by the oil pump are needle bearings.
The greatest problem is the amount of distance there is between the rotating surface of the large end of the oil pump rod and the eccentric surface of the sprocket drum. The greater the gap the greater the slap which eventually causes the aluminum casting around the steel ring of the rod to crack and cause reduced pumping which affects flow. Low flow keeps oil from getting to the cam box causing the end caps which are fed by gravity to dry up and seize.
Bill
The Honda 600 oil pump rod is a case of an accident waiting to happen. Miles came out with a steel rod that when put together with a steel sleeve on the eccentric will last for a very long time.
I know, because I have had one in a sedan for a number of years and it is pumping great and the owner runs it all the time.
The air build up you are referring to is called cavitation, the build up of small bubbles along the sides if the piston or other moving parts as the liquid flows past the metal surfaces. Because there is no pressure there is no problem with cavatation as it will not reduce flow because all the bearing surfaces fed by the oil pump are needle bearings.
The greatest problem is the amount of distance there is between the rotating surface of the large end of the oil pump rod and the eccentric surface of the sprocket drum. The greater the gap the greater the slap which eventually causes the aluminum casting around the steel ring of the rod to crack and cause reduced pumping which affects flow. Low flow keeps oil from getting to the cam box causing the end caps which are fed by gravity to dry up and seize.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > goinhm@...
> Sent:
> Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:45
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oil Pump
> Tom,
> The Honda 600 sedan shop manual (available online from > the group site) describes the testing of the oil pump. It states the > volume is 3.1 liters per minute at 1000 rpm. So, each stroke > of the pump is 3.1 ml. You would need to make a fixture to connect to > the outlet port to collect the oil.
> What I have done is to check the pump is:
> 1) clean up the pump and the screen filter.
> 2) shake it and listen for the ball to rattle (it is part of a > check valve)
> 3) check the condition of the plunger piston and bore
> 4) wet the cylinder with oil and manually pump it. I should > feel resistance on the piston shaft when it is trying to suck the oil into the > pump body. When I push toward the pump body, I should feel the air > pressure at the pump outlet (and see some spitting). If I push > quickly, I should feel some resistance due to the air pressure > build-up.
> Step 4 is incidental.. ..if steps 2 and 3 are ok, the pump has > always worked for me. Check out the shaft which the piston connects to > for straightness and wear. Check it against the eccentric on the > primary drive where it connects.
> The filter screen on the pump was made to be removed and replaced (if > necessary). That may have been the case if this were the 70s or > 1980s. Now I find these screens are too brittle to be removed without > damaging the plastic
> The way these pumps go bad when the car was run frequently was the oil > pump cylinder bore would develop a deep groove from the floating piston > pin riding against the aluminum wall and/or the clearance where the shaft rode > on the primary drive eccentric would become excessive. Sometimes I have > seen the filter screen get blocked because the owner did not keep the oil > clean (or they had a failure in the engine which sent lots of aluminum filings > into the crankcase and even though the problem may have been fixed on the top > end, the metal filings stayed in the engine and accumulated at the filter > screen. At some time later, the oil pump failed).
> If the car has been sitting for many years, the pump could be > gunked from sitting in dirty oil. It might be salvaged through > cleaning. If you see corrosion, I would not use it.
> good luck,
> Dale
> > C'mon
> > now - has nobody else run into this?
> > --- In
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > ,
> > "franknfike" wrote:
> > > Can anybody
> > tell me how to test my oil pump? I have it out of the engine and have tried > > moving the pump rod manually to test it but I have no way of determining the > > pump discharge volume It kind of "spits" with every > > stroke.
Re: Oil Pump
Hi Bill,
I am not in total agreement with your statements.
See my comments below;
I am not in total agreement with your statements.
See my comments below;
> The
> Honda 600 oil pump rod is a case of an accident waiting to happen. Miles > came out with a steel rod that when put together with a steel sleeve on the > eccentric will last for a very long time.
> I
> know, because I have had one in a sedan for a number of years and it is > pumping great and the owner runs it all the time.
I don't think the oil pump has been a major
problem. I have seen many an oil pump with well over a
100,000
miles of use on it. I don't think switching
to steel in an improvement. If I am going to have metal on metal contact and the resulting material showing up in my oil, I would prefer to have aluminum in my oil instead of iron. The bearing surface which Honda has chosen for the oil pump is aluminum. Any wear which occurs will be aluminum particles which will have an insignificant impact provided they stay microscopic. If you have iron particles entering the oiling system, they can have a more significant and damaging impact when they get into the steel and aluminum bearing surfaces found throughout the engine & transmission.
If the clearances on the oil pump and the eccentric
area are kept within serviceable limits (as stated in the manual), I believe the amount of aluminum wear will be acceptable. Keep the oil clean and change the oil & filter regularly.
> The air build up you are referring to is called
> cavitation, the build up of small bubbles along the sides if the piston or > other moving parts as the liquid flows past the metal surfaces. Because > there is no pressure there is no problem with cavatation as it will not reduce > flow because all the bearing surfaces fed by the oil pump are needle > bearings.
What I described was not cavitation. I was
describing how I check out the pump .... I squirt some oil into the cylinder and manually work the rod into the body. The oil serves to lubricate and act as a seal. When I push the cylinder toward the pump body, I am slightly compressing the air in the cylinder. What (I think) you are describing is something which can occur when the pump is operating in the engine.
> The greatest problem is the amount of distance there
> is between the rotating surface of the large end of the oil pump rod and the > eccentric surface of the sprocket drum. The greater the gap the greater > the slap which eventually causes the aluminum casting around the steel ring of > the rod to crack and cause reduced pumping which affects flow. Low > flow keeps oil from getting to the cam box causing the end caps which are fed > by gravity to dry up and seize.
I agree the clearance at the eccentric is a major
issue. I also have noticed the wear in the cylinder bore of the oil pump to be a major problem. The floating steel piston pin wears a deep groove into the cylinder. I wish they had press fit the pin to the piston or put some Rulon (or Teflon) plugs to prevent the steel pin from contacting the aluminum cylinder wall.
That is my take on the situation. Thanks for your
comments ..... sometimes you have some ideas which make me rethink how I have been doing things.
Dale
Re: Oil Pump
Hi Dale;
I have seen very few Honda 600's advance to the century mark. Most are rebuilt with much less, and the oil pump rod is on the list for replacement. And, I was speaking of the pump while it is running and thought I would throw it in to pull in some discussion on other affects cavition has on rotating parts like the crankshaft. But as to oil being a seal, it's a poor seal when temperatures reach the point where it is burning.
But please explain why you don't like to put IRON in your oil? Oil becomes dirty faster due to blow by and the accumulation of hydrocarbons in the crank case way before any affects iron can have. Besides, we are using steel.
Changing the filter is good, but even filters can't remove the affects hydrocarbons have.
Bill
I have seen very few Honda 600's advance to the century mark. Most are rebuilt with much less, and the oil pump rod is on the list for replacement. And, I was speaking of the pump while it is running and thought I would throw it in to pull in some discussion on other affects cavition has on rotating parts like the crankshaft. But as to oil being a seal, it's a poor seal when temperatures reach the point where it is burning.
But please explain why you don't like to put IRON in your oil? Oil becomes dirty faster due to blow by and the accumulation of hydrocarbons in the crank case way before any affects iron can have. Besides, we are using steel.
Changing the filter is good, but even filters can't remove the affects hydrocarbons have.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > goinhm@...
> Sent:
> Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:57
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oil Pump
> Hi Bill,
> I am not in total agreement with your
> statements. See my comments below;
> > The Honda 600 oil pump rod is a case of an accident waiting to > > happen. Miles came out with a steel rod that when put together with a > > steel sleeve on the eccentric will last for a very long > > time.
> > I know, because I have had one in a
> > sedan for a number of years and it is pumping great and the owner runs it > > all the time.
> I don't think the oil pump has been a major
> problem. I have seen many an oil pump with well over a
> 100,000
> miles of use on it. I don't think switching
> to steel in an improvement. If I am going to have metal on metal contact > and the resulting material showing up in my oil, I would prefer to have > aluminum in my oil instead of iron. The bearing surface which Honda has > chosen for the oil pump is aluminum. Any wear which occurs will be > aluminum particles which will have an insignificant impact provided they stay > microscopic. If you have iron particles entering the oiling > system, they can have a more significant and damaging impact when they > get into the steel and aluminum bearing surfaces found throughout the engine > & transmission.
> If the clearances on the oil pump and the eccentric
> area are kept within serviceable limits (as stated in the manual), I > believe the amount of aluminum wear will be acceptable. Keep the oil > clean and change the oil & filter regularly.
> > The air build up you are referring to is called
> > cavitation, the build up of small bubbles along the sides if the piston or > > other moving parts as the liquid flows past the metal surfaces.
> > Because there is no pressure there is no problem with cavatation as it will > > not reduce flow because all the bearing surfaces fed by the oil pump are > > needle bearings.
> What I described was not cavitation. I was
> describing how I check out the pump .... I squirt some oil into the cylinder > and manually work the rod into the body. The oil serves to lubricate and > act as a seal. When I push the cylinder toward the pump body, I am > slightly compressing the air in the cylinder. What (I think) > you are describing is something which can occur when the pump is > operating in the engine.
> > The greatest problem is the amount of distance
> > there is between the rotating surface of the large end of the oil pump rod > > and the eccentric surface of the sprocket drum. The greater the gap > > the greater the slap which eventually causes the aluminum casting around the > > steel ring of the rod to crack and cause reduced pumping which affects > > flow. Low flow keeps oil from getting to the cam box causing the > > end caps which are fed by gravity to dry up and seize.
> I agree the clearance at the eccentric is a major
> issue. I also have noticed the wear in the cylinder bore of the oil pump > to be a major problem. The floating steel piston pin wears a deep groove > into the cylinder. I wish they had press fit the pin to the piston or > put some Rulon (or Teflon) plugs to prevent the steel pin from contacting the > aluminum cylinder wall.
> That is my take on the situation. Thanks for
> your comments ..... sometimes you have some ideas which make me rethink how I > have been doing things.
> Dale
-
feltonminicycle
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:50 pm
Re: Oil Pump
The last oil pump rods I had made were aluminum with steel insert like the originals. They had a 1/4" stainless pin which pressed in to the new pistons I had made which also had 1/4" hole - of course having a press fit which keeps the pin from tearing up the oil pump bore.
I get the oil pump bodies sleeved in brass by the same guy that does my master cylinders. I had 10 special sets of oil pump rods and driven hubs made to match. The rod had an extra thick bushing installed and the eccentric was turned down to match.
The problem for me was the cash outlay to get the whole project running ($1500)and the extremely slow time it took to sell the rods or kits. Mike OConnor bought most of my rods. My profit was about zero as I had to finish machining the rods for oil holes and oil grooves.
Miles
I get the oil pump bodies sleeved in brass by the same guy that does my master cylinders. I had 10 special sets of oil pump rods and driven hubs made to match. The rod had an extra thick bushing installed and the eccentric was turned down to match.
The problem for me was the cash outlay to get the whole project running ($1500)and the extremely slow time it took to sell the rods or kits. Mike OConnor bought most of my rods. My profit was about zero as I had to finish machining the rods for oil holes and oil grooves.
Miles
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> I am not in total agreement with your statements. See my comments
> below;
> The Honda 600 oil pump rod is a case of an accident waiting to happen.
> Miles came out with a steel rod that when put together with a steel sleeve on
> the eccentric will last for a very long time. I know, because I have
> had one in a sedan for a number of years and it is pumping great and the
> owner runs it all the time.
> I don't think the oil pump has been a major problem. I have seen many an
> oil pump with well over a 100,000 miles of use on it. I don't think
> switching to steel in an improvement. If I am going to have metal on metal
> contact and the resulting material showing up in my oil, I would prefer to have
> aluminum in my oil instead of iron. The bearing surface which Honda has
> chosen for the oil pump is aluminum. Any wear which occurs will be aluminum
> particles which will have an insignificant impact provided they stay
> microscopic. If you have iron particles entering the oiling system, they can
> have a more significant and damaging impact when they get into the steel and
> aluminum bearing surfaces found throughout the engine & transmission.
> If the clearances on the oil pump and the eccentric area are kept within
> serviceable limits (as stated in the manual), I believe the amount of
> aluminum wear will be acceptable. Keep the oil clean and change the oil &
> filter regularly.
> The air build up you are referring to is called cavitation, the build
> up of small bubbles along the sides if the piston or other moving parts as
> the liquid flows past the metal surfaces. Because there is no pressure
> there is no problem with cavatation as it will not reduce flow because all the
> bearing surfaces fed by the oil pump are needle bearings.
> What I described was not cavitation. I was describing how I check out the
> pump .... I squirt some oil into the cylinder and manually work the rod
> into the body. The oil serves to lubricate and act as a seal. When I push
> the cylinder toward the pump body, I am slightly compressing the air in the
> cylinder. What (I think) you are describing is something which can
> occur when the pump is operating in the engine.
> The greatest problem is the amount of distance there is between the
> rotating surface of the large end of the oil pump rod and the eccentric
> surface of the sprocket drum. The greater the gap the greater the slap which
> eventually causes the aluminum casting around the steel ring of the rod to
> crack and cause reduced pumping which affects flow. Low flow keeps oil from
> getting to the cam box causing the end caps which are fed by gravity to
> dry up and seize.
> I agree the clearance at the eccentric is a major issue. I also have
> noticed the wear in the cylinder bore of the oil pump to be a major problem.
> The floating steel piston pin wears a deep groove into the cylinder. I wish
> they had press fit the pin to the piston or put some Rulon (or Teflon)
> plugs to prevent the steel pin from contacting the aluminum cylinder wall.
> That is my take on the situation. Thanks for your comments .....
> sometimes you have some ideas which make me rethink how I have been doing things.
> Dale
Re: Oil Pump
Miles;
You also made the steel oil pump rods which I liked the best. They were easily adapted to the sleeved hub eccentric to provide a reliable pump. The sleeves I used were stainless steel giving a very long life to the units I put in engines.
And, if anyone is looking to put one in their engine, I still have one of Miles steel rods on the shelf.
Bill
You also made the steel oil pump rods which I liked the best. They were easily adapted to the sleeved hub eccentric to provide a reliable pump. The sleeves I used were stainless steel giving a very long life to the units I put in engines.
And, if anyone is looking to put one in their engine, I still have one of Miles steel rods on the shelf.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > feltonminicycle > Sent:
> Friday, October 23, 2009 7:29
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oil Pump
> The last oil pump rods I had made were aluminum with steel insert like the > originals. They had a 1/4" stainless pin which pressed in to the new pistons I > had made which also had 1/4" hole - of course having a press fit which keeps > the pin from tearing up the oil pump bore.
> I get the oil pump bodies
> sleeved in brass by the same guy that does my master cylinders. I had 10 > special sets of oil pump rods and driven hubs made to match. The rod had an > extra thick bushing installed and the eccentric was turned down to match.
> The problem for me was the cash outlay to get the whole project > running ($1500)and the extremely slow time it took to sell the rods or kits.
> Mike OConnor bought most of my rods. My profit was about zero as I had to > finish machining the rods for oil holes and oil grooves.
> Miles
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> ,
> goinhm@... wrote:
> > Hi Bill,
> > I am not in total
> agreement with your statements. See my comments
> > below;
> > The Honda 600 oil pump rod is a case of an accident waiting to > happen.
> > Miles came out with a steel rod that when put together with a > steel sleeve on > > the eccentric will last for a very long time. I know, > because I have > > had one in a sedan for a number of years and it is > pumping great and the > > owner runs it all the time.
> > I
> don't think the oil pump has been a major problem. I have seen many an
> > oil pump with well over a 100,000 miles of use on it. I don't think
> > switching to steel in an improvement. If I am going to have metal on > metal > > contact and the resulting material showing up in my oil, I > would prefer to have > > aluminum in my oil instead of iron. The bearing > surface which Honda has > > chosen for the oil pump is aluminum. Any wear > which occurs will be aluminum > > particles which will have an > insignificant impact provided they stay > > microscopic. If you have iron > particles entering the oiling system, they can > > have a more > significant and damaging impact when they get into the steel and
> aluminum bearing surfaces found throughout the engine & transmission.
> > If the clearances on the oil pump and the eccentric area are > kept within > > serviceable limits (as stated in the manual), I believe > the amount of > > aluminum wear will be acceptable. Keep the oil clean > and change the oil & > > filter regularly.
> The air build up you are referring to is called cavitation, the build
> up of small bubbles along the sides if the piston or other moving parts as
> > the liquid flows past the metal surfaces. Because there is no > pressure > > there is no problem with cavatation as it will not reduce > flow because all the > > bearing surfaces fed by the oil pump are needle > bearings.
> > What I described was not cavitation. I was
> describing how I check out the
> > pump .... I squirt some oil into the
> cylinder and manually work the rod
> > into the body. The oil serves to
> lubricate and act as a seal. When I push
> > the cylinder toward the pump
> body, I am slightly compressing the air in the
> > cylinder. What (I
> think) you are describing is something which can
> > occur when the pump
> is operating in the engine.
> > The greatest problem is
> the amount of distance there is between the
> > rotating surface of the
> large end of the oil pump rod and the eccentric
> > surface of the
> sprocket drum. The greater the gap the greater the slap which
> eventually causes the aluminum casting around the steel ring of the rod to
> > crack and cause reduced pumping which affects flow. Low flow keeps > oil from > > getting to the cam box causing the end caps which are fed by > gravity to > > dry up and seize.
> > I agree the clearance
> at the eccentric is a major issue. I also have
> > noticed the wear in
> the cylinder bore of the oil pump to be a major problem.
> > The floating
> steel piston pin wears a deep groove into the cylinder. I wish > > they > had press fit the pin to the piston or put some Rulon (or Teflon)
> plugs to prevent the steel pin from contacting the aluminum cylinder > wall.
> > That is my take on the situation. Thanks for your
> comments .....
> > sometimes you have some ideas which make me rethink
> how I have been doing things.
> > Dale