New chain tensioner rollers

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:36 pm

I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
We are working on material and design issues.
This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
Please add your thoughts.
Thanks
Lyle

CHEYENNE FLETCHER · Post by **CHEYENNE FLETCHER** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:55 pm

Delrin is the best choice for material .It's good for high temp, self lubricating, and easy to machine.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> lyletrudell
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, June 28, 2010 3:35 PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] New chain
> tensioner rollers
> I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner > rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> I talked to Miles and Bill about making new
> rollers.
> We are working on material and design issues.
> This is an
> important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> I
> know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I > don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> Please add your
> thoughts.
> Thanks
> Lyle

feltonminicycle · Post by **feltonminicycle** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:04 pm

Delrin is not a good choice for engine rollers. Do not use it. I have proof - a delrin roller with the center melted out of it the size of a nickel. The sides of the roller look like it was in a fire. I took it out of an engine I was rebuilding.
Delrin works for a lot of things, just not being inside an air cooled engine.
Watch my video on You Tube around 1:42 into the vid, you will see it.
Miles

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> Delrin is the best choice for material .It's good for high temp, self lubricating, and easy to machine.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lyletrudell
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:35 PM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] New chain tensioner rollers
> I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> We are working on material and design issues.
> This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> Please add your thoughts.
> Thanks
> Lyle

CHEYENNE FLETCHER · Post by **CHEYENNE FLETCHER** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:59 am

Interesting. We have use it in high temp situations and it never fails.
Look like someone tries it and failed. What if you made a billet wheel with a Delrin outer??

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> feltonminicycle
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03
> PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain
> tensioner rollers
> Delrin is not a good choice for engine rollers. Do not use it. I have proof > - a delrin roller with the center melted out of it the size of a nickel. The > sides of the roller look like it was in a fire. I took it out of an engine I > was rebuilding.
> Delrin works for a lot of things, just not being
> inside an air cooled engine.
> Watch my video on You Tube around 1:42
> into the vid, you will see it.
> Miles
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > Delrin
> is the best choice for material .It's good for high temp, self lubricating, > and easy to machine.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> lyletrudell
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:35 PM
> > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] New chain tensioner rollers
> > I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner > rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> > I talked to Miles and Bill about making
> new rollers.
> > We are working on material and design issues.
> This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to > make.
> > I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with > these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> Please add your thoughts.
> > Thanks
> Lyle

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:19 am

I've only seen pictures but honda part#14670-035-030 looks about the same size gear wheel but with threaded center. Candidate for possible modification to drill out and install bearing into it. They are pretty common honda motorcycle part so don't see them disappearing anytime soon.
From: CHEYENNE FLETCHER
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:57 AM
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
Interesting. We have use it in high temp situations and it never fails Look like someone tries it and failed. What if you made a billet wheel with a Delrin outer??

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> feltonminicycle
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent:
> Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03 PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> Delrin is not a good choice for engine rollers. Do not use it. I have proof - a delrin roller with the center melted out of it the size of a nickel. The sides of the roller look like it was in a fire. I took it out of an engine I was rebuilding.
> Delrin works for a lot of things, just not being inside an air cooled engine.
> Watch my video on You Tube around 1:42 into the vid, you will see it.
> Miles
> --- In

[The entire original message is not included]

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:51 pm

Good Ideas!
I machine a lot of Delrin parts, but agree Delrin it's not a good material for high heat and high load.
Was talking with Miles about PEEK or Nylon 6 with MDS.
Do a search about properties and see what you think.
Bill was talking about using a small steel sprocket with the same pitch as the chain...clever.
Jerry, your idea is always a good way, modify an existing part!
Cheap and it's already used for that purpose on other motorcycles.
Can you get some specs on it?
Thanks
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Jerry wrote:
> I've only seen pictures but honda part#14670-035-030 looks about the same size gear wheel but with threaded center. Candidate for possible modification to drill out and install bearing into it. They are pretty common honda motorcycle part so don't see them disappearing anytime soon.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CHEYENNE FLETCHER
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:57 AM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> Interesting. We have use it in high temp situations and it never fails. Look like someone tries it and failed. What if you made a billet wheel with a Delrin outer??
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: feltonminicycle
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03 PM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> �
> Delrin is not a good choice for engine rollers. Do not use it. I have proof - a delrin roller with the center melted out of it the size of a nickel. The sides of the roller look like it was in a fire. I took it out of an engine I was rebuilding.
> Delrin works for a lot of things, just not being inside an air cooled engine.
> Watch my video on You Tube around 1:42 into the vid, you will see it.
> Miles
> --- In
> [The entire original message is not included]

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:45 pm

Here is a good site for parts.
Nice exploded views.
Not sure what will work.
Looked up 750 honda.
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorc ... k2/o/m9201
The cheapest way is to modify a part off the shelf, like Jerry said.
So many dirt bikes, quads and street bikes to get parts from today.
What is the pitch or number of the cam chain?
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Good Ideas!
> I machine a lot of Delrin parts, but agree Delrin it's not a good material for high heat and high load.
> Was talking with Miles about PEEK or Nylon 6 with MDS.
> Do a search about properties and see what you think.
> Bill was talking about using a small steel sprocket with the same pitch as the chain...clever.
> Jerry, your idea is always a good way, modify an existing part!
> Cheap and it's already used for that purpose on other motorcycles.
> Can you get some specs on it?
> Thanks
> Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Jerry wrote:
> > I've only seen pictures but honda part#14670-035-030 looks about the same size gear wheel but with threaded center. Candidate for possible modification to drill out and install bearing into it. They are pretty common honda motorcycle part so don't see them disappearing anytime soon.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CHEYENNE FLETCHER
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:57 AM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> > Interesting. We have use it in high temp situations and it never fails. Look like someone tries it and failed. What if you made a billet wheel with a Delrin outer??
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: feltonminicycle
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> > �
> > Delrin is not a good choice for engine rollers. Do not use it. I have proof - a delrin roller with the center melted out of it the size of a nickel. The sides of the roller look like it was in a fire. I took it out of an engine I was rebuilding.
> > Delrin works for a lot of things, just not being inside an air cooled engine.
> > Watch my video on You Tube around 1:42 into the vid, you will see it.
> > Miles
> > --- In
> > [The entire original message is not included]

Kevin Lister · Post by **Kevin Lister** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:38 pm

Wouldn't steel be really noisy and put more wear on the chain?
There must be a reason for making the part out of something that is durable but not as hard as steel.
Any thoughts?
kev

--- On
Tue, 6/29/10, lyletrudell

wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers > To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 3:49 PM
> Good Ideas!
> I machine a lot of Delrin parts, but agree Delrin it's not a good material for high heat and high load.
> Was talking with Miles about PEEK or Nylon 6 with MDS.
> Do a search about properties and see what you think.
> Bill was talking about using a small steel sprocket with the same pitch as the chain...clever.
> Jerry, your idea is always a good way, modify an existing part!
> Cheap and it's already used for that purpose on other motorcycles.
> Can you get some specs on it?
> Thanks
> Lyle
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , Jerry wrote:
> > I've only seen pictures but honda part#14670-035-030 looks about the same size gear wheel but with threaded center. Candidate for possible modification to drill out and install bearing into it. They are pretty common honda motorcycle part so don't see them disappearing anytime soon.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CHEYENNE FLETCHER
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:57 AM
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> > Interesting. We have use it in high temp situations and it never fails. Look like someone tries it and failed. What if you made a billet wheel with a Delrin outer??
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: feltonminicycle
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> > Delrin is not a good choice for engine rollers. Do not use it. I have proof - a delrin roller with the center melted out of it the size of a nickel. The sides of the roller look like it was in a fire. I took it out of an engine I was rebuilding.
> > Delrin works for a lot of things, just not being inside an air cooled engine.
> > Watch my video on You Tube around 1:42 into the vid, you will see it.
> > Miles
> > --- In
> > [The entire original message is not included]

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:16 pm

Kevin, I think a steel idler sprocket with a good bearing would be the best....as Bill suggested. Most high load/rpm systems use a sprocket as an idler.
Think about this, the chain would match the idler sprocket perfect and not just rub/slide against the rollers on the chain causing wear.
Note that the chain sprockets look good after 38 years, the only thing worn out is the plastic/rubber rollers.
It would be no more noisy than the other stock steel sprockets.
I have read that a well oiled chain system is the most efficient way to transfer power.
Don't take my word for it, do some research, were still in the design stage.
Always looking for a better way to do things.
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Kevin Lister wrote:
> Wouldn't steel be really noisy and put more wear on the chain?
> There must be a reason for making the part out of something that is durable but not as hard as steel.
> Any thoughts?
> kev
> --- On Tue, 6/29/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 3:49 PM
> Good Ideas!
> I machine a lot of Delrin parts, but agree Delrin it's not a good material for high heat and high load.
> Was talking with Miles about PEEK or Nylon 6 with MDS.
> Do a search about properties and see what you think.
> Bill was talking about using a small steel sprocket with the same pitch as the chain...clever.
> Jerry, your idea is always a good way, modify an existing part!
> Cheap and it's already used for that purpose on other motorcycles.
> Can you get some specs on it?
> Thanks
> Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Jerry wrote:
> > I've only seen pictures but honda part#14670-035-030 looks about the same size gear wheel but with threaded center. Candidate for possible modification to drill out and install bearing into it. They are pretty common honda motorcycle part so don't see them disappearing anytime soon.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CHEYENNE FLETCHER
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:57 AM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> > Interesting. We have use it in high temp situations and it never fails. Look like someone tries it and failed. What if you made a billet wheel with a Delrin outer??
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: feltonminicycle
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> > Delrin is not a good choice for engine rollers. Do not use it. I have proof - a delrin roller with the center melted out of it the size of a nickel. The sides of the roller look like it was in a fire. I took it out of an engine I was rebuilding.
> > Delrin works for a lot of things, just not being inside an air cooled engine.
> > Watch my video on You Tube around 1:42 into the vid, you will see it.
> > Miles
> > --- In
> > [The entire original message is not included]

friend · Post by **friend** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:44 pm

Kev;
The cam sprocket is steel, so is the crank shaft sprocket. Manufacturers look for the most cost efficient way of mass- production (best bang for the buck). The rubber tensioner allows for tension on the chain with very little in the way of precision. A sprocket would need more stability than the arm that is used at present. I doubt there is much noise difference although the button at the bottom of the crank shaft bearing cap, shows that with time the roller was not doing it's job as the chain slapped against many of them. Now that is a sound I would like to get a recording of.
Just a thought.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > lyletrudell > Sent:
> Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:12
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> Kevin, I think a steel idler sprocket with a good bearing would be the > best....as Bill suggested. Most high load/rpm systems use a sprocket as an > idler.
> Think about this, the chain would match the idler sprocket perfect > and not just rub/slide against the rollers on the chain causing wear.
> Note
> that the chain sprockets look good after 38 years, the only thing worn out is > the plastic/rubber rollers.
> It would be no more noisy than the other
> stock steel sprockets.
> I have read that a well oiled chain system is
> the most efficient way to transfer power.
> Don't take my word for it, do
> some research, were still in the design stage.
> Always looking for a better
> way to do things.
> Lyle
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> Kevin Lister wrote:
> > Wouldn't
> steel be really noisy and put more wear on the chain?
> > There
> must be a reason for making the part out of something that is durable but not > as hard as steel.
> > Any thoughts?
> > kev
> > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, lyletrudell
> wrote:
> > From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 3:49 PM
> > �
> > Good Ideas!
> > I machine a lot of Delrin parts, but agree Delrin it's not a good > material for high heat and high load.
> > Was talking with Miles
> about PEEK or Nylon 6 with MDS.
> > Do a search about properties
> and see what you think.
> > Bill was talking
> about using a small steel sprocket with the same pitch as the > chain...clever.
> > Jerry, your idea is always
> a good way, modify an existing part!
> > Cheap and it's already
> used for that purpose on other motorcycles.
> > Can you get some
> specs on it?
> > Thanks
> > Lyle
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> Jerry wrote:
> I've only seen pictures but honda part#14670-035-030 looks about the same size > gear wheel but with threaded center. Candidate for possible modification to > drill out and install bearing into it. They are pretty common honda motorcycle > part so don't see them disappearing anytime soon.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
> CHEYENNE FLETCHER
> > > Sent: Tuesday,
> June 29, 2010 8:57 AM
> > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner > rollers
> Interesting. We have use it in high temp situations and it never fails. Look > like someone tries it and failed. What if you made a billet wheel with a > Delrin outer??
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: feltonminicycle
> > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03 PM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: New chain tensioner rollers
> > > Delrin is not a good choice
> for engine rollers. Do not use it. I have proof - a delrin roller with the > center melted out of it the size of a nickel. The sides of the roller look > like it was in a fire. I took it out of an engine I was rebuilding.
> > > Delrin works for a lot of things, just
> not being inside an air cooled engine.
> > Watch my video on You Tube around 1:42 into the vid, you will see > it.
> > > Miles
> > > --- In
> [The entire original message is not included]