Honda 600 pistons

[Karnut]

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Karnut
> Sent:
> Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:39 AM
> Subject:
> Honda 600 Pistons
>     You can purchase pistons
> from these taiwan mfgs,but only in large quanities.
> The last time I spoke with one of them you
> had to order min of 400 at about 4.00 dollar apeice in any size wth pin and > clips only
> http://www.jccpiston.com/index.asp?lang=2
> http://www.piston.com.tw/upload_files/1 ... /HONDA.pdf

[lyletrudell]

That was an interesting web site.
Now we know why US companies are in trouble, a piston for $4!
I don't think I could buy the material for that price.
And my employee's won't work for 50 cents/hr with no benifits.
400 pistons would be hard to sell, don't know if there are 400 cars left and it would take years to sell them.
As more manufacturing companies close in the US, we will have to find over seas suppliers.
For now I will stick with local suppliers.
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "Karnut" wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Karnut
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:39 AM
> Subject: Honda 600 Pistons
> You can purchase pistons from these taiwan mfgs,but only in large quanities.
> The last time I spoke with one of them you had to order min of 400 at about 4.00 dollar apeice in any size wth pin and clips only
http://www.jccpiston.com/index.asp?lang=2
http://www.piston.com.tw/upload_files/1 ... /HONDA.pdf

[TOM THIES]

Yea I think 400 would be hard to sell and what if their was a problem with them,  can you imagine trying to send them back for a redo.  I have heard what Miles, Mike, Bill, Etc. have gone through to get the part right.   I do agree I will buy my parts Local (not over seas).
So keep up the good work guys.   Also for some of the upper west coast people the is a couple of guys that still work on the Hondas.  They rebuilt my motor for me a few years ago.  B&B automotive in Washougal, Washington.  Blaine and Brian,  They do do computers so the only was to contact is by phone.  More info here http://mind-temple.com/600/humor.htm#Automotive

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> lyletrudell
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:18
> PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600
> pistons
> That was an interesting web site.
> Now we know why US companies are in
> trouble, a piston for $4!
> I don't think I could buy the material for that
> price.
> And my employee's won't work for 50 cents/hr with no
> benifits.
> 400 pistons would be hard to sell, don't know if there are > 400 cars left and it would take years to sell them.
> As more manufacturing
> companies close in the US, we will have to find over seas suppliers.
> For
> now I will stick with local suppliers.
> Lyle
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "Karnut" wrote:
> > ----- Original
> Message -----
> > From: Karnut
> > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:39
> AM
> > Subject: Honda 600 Pistons
> > You can
> purchase pistons from these taiwan mfgs,but only in large quanities.
> The last time I spoke with one of them you had to order min of 400 at about > 4.00 dollar apeice in any size wth pin and clips only
> http://www.jccpiston.com/index.asp?lang=2
> http://www.piston.com.tw/upload_files/1 ... /HONDA.pdf

[zinc2u]

400 pistons at $4 is no big deal if they will let you have an assortment of oversizes or make higher performance pistons.  If they had let you buy pistons at $80 per pair,  you would think that was a great deal.   This is a great opportunity to get the high performance pistons at a decent price.... if they will make them.  Don't think of it as 400 pistons for 200 cars.  Think of it as some cool stuff for everyone on this newsgroup for $1600.
While the pistons may have been $4 each several years ago,  I suspect the price has gone up a bit since the Taiwan currency may be much stronger now against the US currency.
Dale

> That
> was an interesting web site.
> Now we know why US companies are in trouble, a
> piston for $4!
> I don't think I could buy the material for that
> price.
> And my employee's won't work for 50 cents/hr with no
> benifits.
> 400 pistons would be hard to sell, don't know if there are > 400 cars left and it would take years to sell them.
> As more manufacturing
> companies close in the US, we will have to find over seas suppliers.
> For
> now I will stick with local
> suppliers.
> Lyle

[lyletrudell]

Hi Dale, that is a another way to look at it.
We should look at all parts suppliers, you never know when we will lose our only one, companies are closing everyday!
This is a touchy subject for me as an American manufactuter, but I will try to stay neutral.
This Honda is a Hobby car for me, so I want cheap parts too!
Before we look for an overseas supplier we know nothing about.
Facts;
Honda 600 pistons are not a big selling item, Mike only sold 100 sets over the years. Should we compete with him for part of that small market? Or just work with our only US supplier?
Mike sells 2 pistons for $300 complete with rings, pins and clips.
He say's they have not had any problems, so that is a big plus.
Is he making a profit, I hope so.
So if price is the only concern, what if we did a large group buy from him? Maybe he could get them cheaper from his supplier and he would not have to keep a big inventory and no money out of his pocket.
Questions for Mike:
*What compression are the pistons, I would like 9.5:1 so we can still use pump gas.
*Cast or forged?
*Sizes (.10) & (.25) would be good, so we can get more re-bores.
My 2 cents, minus the growing taxes.
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> 400 pistons at $4 is no big deal if they will let you have an assortment of
> oversizes or make higher performance pistons. If they had let you buy
> pistons at $80 per pair, you would think that was a great deal. This is a
> great opportunity to get the high performance pistons at a decent price....
> if they will make them. Don't think of it as 400 pistons for 200 cars.
> Think of it as some cool stuff for everyone on this newsgroup for $1600.
> While the pistons may have been $4 each several years ago, I suspect the
> price has gone up a bit since the Taiwan currency may be much stronger now
> against the US currency.
> Dale
> That was an interesting web site.
> Now we know why US companies are in trouble, a piston for $4!
> I don't think I could buy the material for that price.
> And my employee's won't work for 50 cents/hr with no benifits.
> 400 pistons would be hard to sell, don't know if there are 400 cars left
> and it would take years to sell them.
> As more manufacturing companies close in the US, we will have to find over
> seas suppliers.
> For now I will stick with local suppliers.
> Lyle

[zinc2u]

Hi Lyle,
    I like the idea of "Made in the USA" but these are Japanese cars we are restoring.  The idea of buying from Mike is fine with me ..... do you know where his pistons are made?    I don't really need any stock pistons for some time but having a set of pistons to build up the Hawaiian 600 (or something similar) does appeal to me.
    If we did come up with a kit of parts to do a Hawaiian 600,  I suspect we would have no more than 25 sales and I would be interested in at least 2 of them.  So,  if the kit sells for $300,  that is $7500 to break even and if it sells for $500, that is $12,500 to break even.   About 10 years ago,  the price for a single cam grind was $100.  Not sure what it costs today and what the discount might be for 25 camshafts.  I believe the complete set of rings from Hastings costs $90.  Already the cost for the rings and cam grind is at $190.  As you can see,  not a lot of money available for the R & D part (dyno testing,  trying different cam grinds, different piston configurations, etc. ).   If we went with the Hawaiian 600 specs,  that is an engine which did work and is somewhat legendary among the 600 crowd.  Doing a dyno test would be nice but doesn't seem to be necessary since its performance is already known by some.  If we end up selling more than 25 kits,  we can use the money to tinker with some other designs.
    I can see the Hawaiian kit also creating a lot of grief for the 600 owners.  Putting this kit in an engine with a marginal crankshaft is going to trash the engine.  Initially everyone is going to love the kit and 6 months later,  75% of the group is going to complain about their engine being broken.  Then the search will be on for replacement crankshafts.
     What I did not like about Mike's piston offerings were his choices;  0.5 and 1.0 mm.  While many of the people on this group may have worn out bores,  I am not one on them.  My selection of barrels is at standard and first oversize.  Years ago I had the cylinder liners replaced on several barrels and then had the cylinders bored to match my new pistons.  I have been sitting on this stockpile and draw from them as needed.
Have an enjoyable mini-vacation,
Dale

> Hi
> Dale, that is a another way to look at it.
> We should look at all parts
> suppliers, you never know when we will lose our only one, companies are > closing everyday!
> This is a touchy subject for me as an American
> manufactuter, but I will try to stay neutral.
> This Honda is a Hobby car for
> me, so I want cheap parts too!
> Before we look for an overseas supplier
> we know nothing about.
> Facts;
> Honda 600 pistons are not a big selling
> item, Mike only sold 100 sets over the years. Should we compete with him for > part of that small market? Or just work with our only US supplier?
> Mike
> sells 2 pistons for $300 complete with rings, pins and clips.
> He say's they
> have not had any problems, so that is a big plus.
> Is he making a profit, I
> hope so.
> So if price is the only concern, what if we did a large group buy > from him? Maybe he could get them cheaper from his supplier and he would not > have to keep a big inventory and no money out of his pocket.
> Questions for
> Mike:
> *What compression are the pistons, I would like 9.5:1 so we can still > use pump gas.
> *Cast or forged?
> *Sizes (.10) & (.25) would be good,
> so we can get more re-bores.
> My 2 cents, minus the growing
> taxes.
> Lyle

[lyletrudell]

Dale, don't remind me about these being non American cars.
I have got lots of grief from my motorhead buddies, but they think the 600 is interesting because of the micro size and motorcycle engine and clever design. Hey, I also have an F150.......
I am building one mostly stock engine and I have all the parts.
I like the idea of 50mpg and I plan one driving it for local deliveries. With my Tru-Craft Machining sticker on the back.
"No job too small"
My plan is to build my spare engine into something with more power, maybe like a Hawaiian spec car or a little hotter, because I could get bored with 36HP real fast!.
Then just swap the motor. Not sure if that will ever happen.
I have so many other projects, but I do like the Honda 600 and think it will be challenging/fun to drive in traffic. Kind of like a motorcycle with the handicap of no power.
:)
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Lyle,
> I like the idea of "Made in the USA" but these are Japanese cars we
> are restoring. The idea of buying from Mike is fine with me ..... do you
> know where his pistons are made? I don't really need any stock pistons for
> some time but having a set of pistons to build up the Hawaiian 600 (or
> something similar) does appeal to me.
> If we did come up with a kit of parts to do a Hawaiian 600, I suspect
> we would have no more than 25 sales and I would be interested in at least
> 2 of them. So, if the kit sells for $300, that is $7500 to break even
> and if it sells for $500, that is $12,500 to break even. About 10 years
> ago, the price for a single cam grind was $100. Not sure what it costs
> today and what the discount might be for 25 camshafts. I believe the complete
> set of rings from Hastings costs $90. Already the cost for the rings and
> cam grind is at $190. As you can see, not a lot of money available for
> the R & D part (dyno testing, trying different cam grinds, different
> piston configurations, etc. ). If we went with the Hawaiian 600 specs, that
> is an engine which did work and is somewhat legendary among the 600 crowd.
> Doing a dyno test would be nice but doesn't seem to be necessary since its
> performance is already known by some. If we end up selling more than 25
> kits, we can use the money to tinker with some other designs.
> I can see the Hawaiian kit also creating a lot of grief for the 600
> owners. Putting this kit in an engine with a marginal crankshaft is going to
> trash the engine. Initially everyone is going to love the kit and 6
> months later, 75% of the group is going to complain about their engine being
> broken. Then the search will be on for replacement crankshafts.
> What I did not like about Mike's piston offerings were his choices;
> 0.5 and 1.0 mm. While many of the people on this group may have worn out
> bores, I am not one on them. My selection of barrels is at standard and
> first oversize. Years ago I had the cylinder liners replaced on several
> barrels and then had the cylinders bored to match my new pistons. I have been
> sitting on this stockpile and draw from them as needed.
> Have an enjoyable mini-vacation,
> Dale
> Hi Dale, that is a another way to look at it.
> We should look at all parts suppliers, you never know when we will lose
> our only one, companies are closing everyday!
> This is a touchy subject for me as an American manufactuter, but I will
> try to stay neutral.
> This Honda is a Hobby car for me, so I want cheap parts too!
> Before we look for an overseas supplier we know nothing about.
> Facts;
> Honda 600 pistons are not a big selling item, Mike only sold 100 sets over
> the years. Should we compete with him for part of that small market? Or
> just work with our only US supplier?
> Mike sells 2 pistons for $300 complete with rings, pins and clips.
> He say's they have not had any problems, so that is a big plus.
> Is he making a profit, I hope so.
> So if price is the only concern, what if we did a large group buy from
> him? Maybe he could get them cheaper from his supplier and he would not have
> to keep a big inventory and no money out of his pocket.
> Questions for Mike:
> *What compression are the pistons, I would like 9.5:1 so we can still use
> pump gas.
> *Cast or forged?
> *Sizes (.10) & (.25) would be good, so we can get more re-bores.
> My 2 cents, minus the growing taxes.
> Lyle