Recent Starting Difficulties

[juniselect]

Hey Group!
I have a 72 N600 here in San Francisco that I occasionally take out of the garage to cruise around the neighborhood with. Lately, I have been noticing some starting troubles though. Usually, when I first start it after several days of non-use, it turns over and starts up with little to no problems. However, let's say after I start it up and drive it around the block, park it on the street, turn it off for a bit, maybe an hour or so, I can't start it back up; it just turns over with no successful start. This happened again, for the second time, just yesterday. I go through the same process each time, pull out the choke, then turn it over, but it hasn't started, so I just rolled it back into the garage.
Last time, I gave it a few days, then tried again to start, and it started with no problem. So, I am wondering what's going on. My first guess is that it isn't getting enough gas to start, then I think that maybe it's getting to much gas and then flooding out. Spark plugs? I'm just not sure. Well, so then, now here is this post in the forum. Let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions on next steps. Thanks in advance.
-marty
san francisco, ca

[Bob Freeman]

This happened to me last year and it was a bear to find. It turned out to be the points set. One of the welded on contacts had over a hundred ohms to the base arm it was welded on to. Some sort of internal corrosion. I put in a different set of points and now it runs perfect. It acted exactly like a carb problem.

Note: 1 image(s) originally linked in this post are no longer available (ec).

[Don Laughton]

It sounds like classic vapor lock, but since this was never an N-car problem, look else where. It probably isn't the fuel filter, but it would not hurt to look. There is a "dowel" on the side of the carb with a wire coming out of it. Have someone turn the key off and on, you should hear it click. This is the fuel cut off solenoid. Drive the car to get everything up to temp, let it heat soak and repeat the on-off test. No click?  Unplug and plug the wire several time and click test again. Oh, be sure you Kironeko a good ground to the engine Don B. Laughton Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2012, at 3:44 PM, "juniselect" wrote:
Hey Group!
I have a 72 N600 here in San Francisco that I occasionally take out of the garage to cruise around the neighborhood with. Lately, I have been noticing some starting troubles though. Usually, when I first start it after several days of non-use, it turns over and starts up with little to no problems. However, let's say after I start it up and drive it around the block, park it on the street, turn it off for a bit, maybe an hour or so, I can't start it back up; it just turns over with no successful start. This happened again, for the second time, just yesterday. I go through the same process each time, pull out the choke, then turn it over, but it hasn't started, so I just rolled it back into the garage.
Last time, I gave it a few days, then tried again to start, and it started with no problem. So, I am wondering what's going on. My first guess is that it isn't getting enough gas to start, then I think that maybe it's getting to much gas and then flooding out. Spark plugs? I'm just not sure. Well, so then, now here is this post in the forum. Let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions on next steps. Thanks in advance.
-marty
san francisco, ca =

[John Mills]

I think I would lean toward the points!!

[feltonminicycle]

I had that problem back around 1982 when I had installed a Honda CB450 carb on my car. It would start & run til I turned it off then wouldn't restart. It was fine again after I reinstalled the stock carb. The CB450 carb is same size as the n600. I later used 2 CB360 carbs just to see what would happen. I found it ran better with just one CB360 carb. Not related but on my 1965 s600 I had a manifold made to run a bank of 4 CB500 carbs.
Miles

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, jbmkwaj@... wrote:
> I think I would lean toward the points!!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Laughton
> To: 2cylinderhondas Sent: Sun, May 13, 2012 4:06 pm
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Recent Starting Difficulties
> It sounds like classic vapor lock, but since this was never an N-car problem, look else where. It probably isn't the fuel filter, but it would not hurt to look. There is a "dowel" on the side of the carb with a wire coming out of it. Have someone turn the key off and on, you should hear it click. This is the fuel cut off solenoid. Drive the car to get everything up to temp, let it heat soak and repeat the on-off test. No click? Unplug and plug the wire several time and click test again. Oh, be sure you Kironeko a good ground to the engine
> Don B. Laughton
> Sent from my iPhone
> On May 13, 2012, at 3:44 PM, "juniselect" wrote:
> Hey Group!
> I have a 72 N600 here in San Francisco that I occasionally take out of the garage to cruise around the neighborhood with. Lately, I have been noticing some starting troubles though. Usually, when I first start it after several days of non-use, it turns over and starts up with little to no problems. However, let's say after I start it up and drive it around the block, park it on the street, turn it off for a bit, maybe an hour or so, I can't start it back up; it just turns over with no successful start. This happened again, for the second time, just yesterday. I go through the same process each time, pull out the choke, then turn it over, but it hasn't started, so I just rolled it back into the garage.
> Last time, I gave it a few days, then tried again to start, and it started with no problem. So, I am wondering what's going on. My first guess is that it isn't getting enough gas to start, then I think that maybe it's getting to much gas and then flooding out. Spark plugs? I'm just not sure. Well, so then, now here is this post in the forum. Let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions on next steps. Thanks in advance.
> -marty
> san francisco, ca
> =

[Marty Garrett]

Hello again group!
Got the new points in and spaced appropriately, reassembled cover and when I went to turn it over, I heard the usually clicking at 1 but no turn over at 2, nothing.  checked the battery, no problems there, tried again, no click, no nothing.
i had some difficulties placing the condenser wire and points cam wire (two wires at base of the points).  anyone know the correct order in which to place them among the small point bolt and insulators.  I am worried that I had them in the wrong order and may have done damage to the condenser.
Please let me know your thoughts and possible next steps to get this sedan started again.
pictures here:
http://n600sedan.blogspot.com/2012/06/c ... oints.html

On May 14, 2012, at 2:18 AM, feltonminicycle wrote:
> I had that problem back around 1982 when I had installed a Honda CB450 carb on my car. It would start & run til I turned it off then wouldn't restart. It was fine again after I reinstalled the stock carb. The CB450 carb is same size as the n600. I later used 2 CB360 carbs just to see what would happen. I found it ran better with just one CB360 carb. Not related but on my 1965 s600 I had a manifold made to run a bank of 4 CB500 carbs.
> Miles
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , jbmkwaj@... wrote:
> > I think I would lean toward the points!!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don Laughton
> > To: 2cylinderhondas 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, May 13, 2012 4:06 pm
> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Recent Starting Difficulties
> > It sounds like classic vapor lock, but since this was never an N-car problem, look else where. It probably isn't the fuel filter, but it would not hurt to look. There is a "dowel" on the side of the carb with a wire coming out of it. Have someone turn the key off and on, you should hear it click. This is the fuel cut off solenoid. Drive the car to get everything up to temp, let it heat soak and repeat the on-off test. No click? Unplug and plug the wire several time and click test again. Oh, be sure you Kironeko a good ground to the engine
> > Don B. Laughton
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > On May 13, 2012, at 3:44 PM, "juniselect" wrote:
> > Hey Group!
> > I have a 72 N600 here in San Francisco that I occasionally take out of the garage to cruise around the neighborhood with. Lately, I have been noticing some starting troubles though. Usually, when I first start it after several days of non-use, it turns over and starts up with little to no problems. However, let's say after I start it up and drive it around the block, park it on the street, turn it off for a bit, maybe an hour or so, I can't start it back up; it just turns over with no successful start. This happened again, for the second time, just yesterday. I go through the same process each time, pull out the choke, then turn it over, but it hasn't started, so I just rolled it back into the garage.
> > Last time, I gave it a few days, then tried again to start, and it started with no problem. So, I am wondering what's going on. My first guess is that it isn't getting enough gas to start, then I think that maybe it's getting to much gas and then flooding out. Spark plugs? I'm just not sure. Well, so then, now here is this post in the forum. Let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions on next steps. Thanks in advance.
> > -marty
> > san francisco, ca
> > =

[twincarb600]

Looks like you have the condensor shorting out to ground. Each of the wires on this screw have to be isolated from ground. The two fiber washers act as a insulator. make sure that both of your lead wires are positioned between the small flat washer and fiber washer. I think you have one of them between metal frame of points and fiber washer.
Robert

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Marty Garrett wrote:
> Hello again group!
> Got the new points in and spaced appropriately, reassembled cover and when I went to turn it over, I heard the usually clicking at 1 but no turn over at 2, nothing. checked the battery, no problems there, tried again, no click, no nothing.
> i had some difficulties placing the condenser wire and points cam wire (two wires at base of the points). anyone know the correct order in which to place them among the small point bolt and insulators. I am worried that I had them in the wrong order and may have done damage to the condenser.
> Please let me know your thoughts and possible next steps to get this sedan started again.
> pictures here:
http://n600sedan.blogspot.com/2012/06/c ... oints.html
> On May 14, 2012, at 2:18 AM, feltonminicycle wrote:
> > I had that problem back around 1982 when I had installed a Honda CB450 carb on my car. It would start & run til I turned it off then wouldn't restart. It was fine again after I reinstalled the stock carb. The CB450 carb is same size as the n600. I later used 2 CB360 carbs just to see what would happen. I found it ran better with just one CB360 carb. Not related but on my 1965 s600 I had a manifold made to run a bank of 4 CB500 carbs.
> > Miles
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, jbmkwaj@ wrote:
> > > I think I would lean toward the points!!
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Don Laughton
> > > To: 2cylinderhondas > > Sent: Sun, May 13, 2012 4:06 pm
> > > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Recent Starting Difficulties
> > > It sounds like classic vapor lock, but since this was never an N-car problem, look else where. It probably isn't the fuel filter, but it would not hurt to look. There is a "dowel" on the side of the carb with a wire coming out of it. Have someone turn the key off and on, you should hear it click. This is the fuel cut off solenoid. Drive the car to get everything up to temp, let it heat soak and repeat the on-off test. No click? Unplug and plug the wire several time and click test again. Oh, be sure you Kironeko a good ground to the engine
> > > Don B. Laughton
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > On May 13, 2012, at 3:44 PM, "juniselect" wrote:
> > > Hey Group!
> > > I have a 72 N600 here in San Francisco that I occasionally take out of the garage to cruise around the neighborhood with. Lately, I have been noticing some starting troubles though. Usually, when I first start it after several days of non-use, it turns over and starts up with little to no problems. However, let's say after I start it up and drive it around the block, park it on the street, turn it off for a bit, maybe an hour or so, I can't start it back up; it just turns over with no successful start. This happened again, for the second time, just yesterday. I go through the same process each time, pull out the choke, then turn it over, but it hasn't started, so I just rolled it back into the garage.
> > > Last time, I gave it a few days, then tried again to start, and it started with no problem. So, I am wondering what's going on. My first guess is that it isn't getting enough gas to start, then I think that maybe it's getting to much gas and then flooding out. Spark plugs? I'm just not sure. Well, so then, now here is this post in the forum. Let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions on next steps. Thanks in advance.
> > > -marty
> > > san francisco, ca
> > > =

[Don Laughton]

The problem is not the points (contact breaker). If the engine won't turn over, check the engine ground strap- cam box to body. If that is good, check to connection to the starter solenoid.  Both big and small wires  good luck Don B. Laughton Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 2, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Marty Garrett wrote:
Hello again group!
Got the new points in and spaced appropriately, reassembled cover and when I went to turn it over, I heard the usually clicking at 1 but no turn over at 2, nothing.  checked the battery, no problems there, tried again, no click, no nothing.
i had some difficulties placing the condenser wire and points cam wire (two wires at base of the points).  anyone know the correct order in which to place them among the small point bolt and insulators.  I am worried that I had them in the wrong order and may have done damage to the condenser.
Please let me know your thoughts and possible next steps to get this sedan started again.
pictures here:
http://n600sedan.blogspot.com/2012/06/c ... oints.html On May 14, 2012, at 2:18 AM, feltonminicycle wrote:
> I had that problem back around 1982 when I had installed a Honda CB450 carb on my car. It would start & run til I turned it off then wouldn't restart. It was fine again after I reinstalled the stock carb. The CB450 carb is same size as the n600. I later used 2 CB360 carbs just to see what would happen. I found it ran better with just one CB360 carb. Not related but on my 1965 s600 I had a manifold made to run a bank of 4 CB500 carbs.
> Miles
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , jbmkwaj@... wrote:
> > I think I would lean toward the points!!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don Laughton
> > To: 2cylinderhondas 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, May 13, 2012 4:06 pm
> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Recent Starting Difficulties
> > It sounds like classic vapor lock, but since this was never an N-car problem, look else where. It probably isn't the fuel filter, but it would not hurt to look. There is a "dowel" on the side of the carb with a wire coming out of it. Have someone turn the key off and on, you should hear it click. This is the fuel cut off solenoid. Drive the car to get everything up to temp, let it heat soak and repeat the on-off test. No click? Unplug and plug the wire several time and click test again. Oh, be sure you Kironeko a good ground to the engine
> > Don B. Laughton
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > On May 13, 2012, at 3:44 PM, "juniselect" wrote:
> > Hey Group!
> > I have a 72 N600 here in San Francisco that I occasionally take out of the garage to cruise around the neighborhood with. Lately, I have been noticing some starting troubles though. Usually, when I first start it after several days of non-use, it turns over and starts up with little to no problems. However, let's say after I start it up and drive it around the block, park it on the street, turn it off for a bit, maybe an hour or so, I can't start it back up; it just turns over with no successful start. This happened again, for the second time, just yesterday. I go through the same process each time, pull out the choke, then turn it over, but it hasn't started, so I just rolled it back into the garage.
> > Last time, I gave it a few days, then tried again to start, and it started with no problem. So, I am wondering what's going on. My first guess is that it isn't getting enough gas to start, then I think that maybe it's getting to much gas and then flooding out. Spark plugs? I'm just not sure. Well, so then, now here is this post in the forum. Let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions on next steps. Thanks in advance.
> > -marty
> > san francisco, ca
> > =
> > =

[twincarb600]

I guess I can't read either... I only really paid attention to the points wiring part.

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Don Laughton wrote:
> The problem is not the points (contact breaker). If the engine won't turn over, check the engine ground strap- cam box to body. If that is good, check to connection to the starter solenoid. Both big and small wires good luck
> Don B. Laughton
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 2, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Marty Garrett wrote:
> > Hello again group!
> > Got the new points in and spaced appropriately, reassembled cover and when I went to turn it over, I heard the usually clicking at 1 but no turn over at 2, nothing. checked the battery, no problems there, tried again, no click, no nothing.
> > i had some difficulties placing the condenser wire and points cam wire (two wires at base of the points). anyone know the correct order in which to place them among the small point bolt and insulators. I am worried that I had them in the wrong order and may have done damage to the condenser.
> > Please let me know your thoughts and possible next steps to get this sedan started again.
> > pictures here:
http://n600sedan.blogspot.com/2012/06/c ... oints.html
> > On May 14, 2012, at 2:18 AM, feltonminicycle wrote:
> >> I had that problem back around 1982 when I had installed a Honda CB450 carb on my car. It would start & run til I turned it off then wouldn't restart. It was fine again after I reinstalled the stock carb. The CB450 carb is same size as the n600. I later used 2 CB360 carbs just to see what would happen. I found it ran better with just one CB360 carb. Not related but on my 1965 s600 I had a manifold made to run a bank of 4 CB500 carbs.
> >> Miles
> >> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, jbmkwaj@ wrote:
> >> > I think I would lean toward the points!!
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Don Laughton
> >> > To: 2cylinderhondas >> > Sent: Sun, May 13, 2012 4:06 pm
> >> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Recent Starting Difficulties
> >> > It sounds like classic vapor lock, but since this was never an N-car problem, look else where. It probably isn't the fuel filter, but it would not hurt to look. There is a "dowel" on the side of the carb with a wire coming out of it. Have someone turn the key off and on, you should hear it click. This is the fuel cut off solenoid. Drive the car to get everything up to temp, let it heat soak and repeat the on-off test. No click? Unplug and plug the wire several time and click test again. Oh, be sure you Kironeko a good ground to the engine
> >> > Don B. Laughton
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> > On May 13, 2012, at 3:44 PM, "juniselect" wrote:
> >> > Hey Group!
> >> > I have a 72 N600 here in San Francisco that I occasionally take out of the garage to cruise around the neighborhood with. Lately, I have been noticing some starting troubles though. Usually, when I first start it after several days of non-use, it turns over and starts up with little to no problems. However, let's say after I start it up and drive it around the block, park it on the street, turn it off for a bit, maybe an hour or so, I can't start it back up; it just turns over with no successful start. This happened again, for the second time, just yesterday. I go through the same process each time, pull out the choke, then turn it over, but it hasn't started, so I just rolled it back into the garage.
> >> > Last time, I gave it a few days, then tried again to start, and it started with no problem. So, I am wondering what's going on. My first guess is that it isn't getting enough gas to start, then I think that maybe it's getting to much gas and then flooding out. Spark plugs? I'm just not sure. Well, so then, now here is this post in the forum. Let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions on next steps. Thanks in advance.
> >> > -marty
> >> > san francisco, ca
> >> > =

[Marty Garrett]

when checking these connections, am I looking for anything specific?  Also, I think I may have some battery issues: new charger that I have was charging one minute then displaying the battery was bad.  I'll look into that tomorrow.  Thanks guys, for your help.  I'm new at this, but a long time honda fan!

On Jun 2, 2012, at 7:02 PM, twincarb600 wrote:
> I guess I can't read either... I only really paid attention to the points wiring part.
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , Don Laughton wrote:
> > The problem is not the points (contact breaker). If the engine won't turn over, check the engine ground strap- cam box to body. If that is good, check to connection to the starter solenoid. Both big and small wires good luck
> > Don B. Laughton
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > On Jun 2, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Marty Garrett wrote:
> > > Hello again group!
> > > Got the new points in and spaced appropriately, reassembled cover and when I went to turn it over, I heard the usually clicking at 1 but no turn over at 2, nothing. checked the battery, no problems there, tried again, no click, no nothing.
> > > i had some difficulties placing the condenser wire and points cam wire (two wires at base of the points). anyone know the correct order in which to place them among the small point bolt and insulators. I am worried that I had them in the wrong order and may have done damage to the condenser.
> > > Please let me know your thoughts and possible next steps to get this sedan started again.
> > > pictures here:
> http://n600sedan.blogspot.com/2012/06/c ... oints.html
> > > On May 14, 2012, at 2:18 AM, feltonminicycle wrote:
> > >> I had that problem back around 1982 when I had installed a Honda CB450 carb on my car. It would start & run til I turned it off then wouldn't restart. It was fine again after I reinstalled the stock carb. The CB450 carb is same size as the n600. I later used 2 CB360 carbs just to see what would happen. I found it ran better with just one CB360 carb. Not related but on my 1965 s600 I had a manifold made to run a bank of 4 CB500 carbs.
> > >> Miles
> > >> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , jbmkwaj@ wrote:
> > >> > I think I would lean toward the points!!
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: Don Laughton
> > >> > To: 2cylinderhondas 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >> > Sent: Sun, May 13, 2012 4:06 pm
> > >> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Recent Starting Difficulties
> > >> > It sounds like classic vapor lock, but since this was never an N-car problem, look else where. It probably isn't the fuel filter, but it would not hurt to look. There is a "dowel" on the side of the carb with a wire coming out of it. Have someone turn the key off and on, you should hear it click. This is the fuel cut off solenoid. Drive the car to get everything up to temp, let it heat soak and repeat the on-off test. No click? Unplug and plug the wire several time and click test again. Oh, be sure you Kironeko a good ground to the engine
> > >> > Don B. Laughton
> > >> > Sent from my iPhone
> > >> > On May 13, 2012, at 3:44 PM, "juniselect" wrote:
> > >> > Hey Group!
> > >> > I have a 72 N600 here in San Francisco that I occasionally take out of the garage to cruise around the neighborhood with. Lately, I have been noticing some starting troubles though. Usually, when I first start it after several days of non-use, it turns over and starts up with little to no problems. However, let's say after I start it up and drive it around the block, park it on the street, turn it off for a bit, maybe an hour or so, I can't start it back up; it just turns over with no successful start. This happened again, for the second time, just yesterday. I go through the same process each time, pull out the choke, then turn it over, but it hasn't started, so I just rolled it back into the garage.
> > >> > Last time, I gave it a few days, then tried again to start, and it started with no problem. So, I am wondering what's going on. My first guess is that it isn't getting enough gas to start, then I think that maybe it's getting to much gas and then flooding out. Spark plugs? I'm just not sure. Well, so then, now here is this post in the forum. Let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions on next steps. Thanks in advance.
> > >> > -marty
> > >> > san francisco, ca
> > >> > =