heat exchanger buzzing

[richmccolman]

I think that I've isolated (via stethoscope) the buzzing noise I'm hearing from my coupe when revved to 4,000 rpm or above to (ta da) - the heat exchanger. Miles has suggested that such noise could be due to a loose or broken aluminum fin inside.
However, one thing that I haven't mentioned is that it appears the car's heat exchanger has no sound deadening material whatsoever coating the outside sheet metal. (I'm guessing that a previous owner must've had the original sound deadening material sandblasted off.) I'm wondering if the lack of sound deadening material could be contributing to the noise.
Also, if I were to attempt to re-coat the heat exchanger, what would the experts here recommend? At one point, I think that someone suggested the heat exchanger's sound deadener was essentially the same as automotive undercoating. The concern I'd have, though, is whether the heat generated by the undercoating would cause the undercoating to really stink when the car is running. (Automotive undercoating that I'm familiar with tends to be stinky stuff as it is, even without getting heated up.)
Any thoughts on whether coating the heat exchanger could dampen the buzzing? And what about using undercoating?
Thanks,
Richard

[Dave Douglass AIA]

You can wrap it with the header wrap found on motorcycles and hotrods or you can have it ceramic coated. Also a high temp rino lining might work if the temps are not too high. You could always repalce it with one that doesnt buxx or install an eliminator pipe.
Dave

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> I think that I've isolated (via stethoscope) the buzzing noise I'm hearing from my coupe when revved to 4,000 rpm or above to (ta da) - the heat exchanger. Miles has suggested that such noise could be due to a loose or broken aluminum fin inside.
> However, one thing that I haven't mentioned is that it appears the car's heat exchanger has no sound deadening material whatsoever coating the outside sheet metal. (I'm guessing that a previous owner must've had the original sound deadening material sandblasted off.) I'm wondering if the lack of sound deadening material could be contributing to the noise.
> Also, if I were to attempt to re-coat the heat exchanger, what would the experts here recommend? At one point, I think that someone suggested the heat exchanger's sound deadener was essentially the same as automotive undercoating. The concern I'd have, though, is whether the heat generated by the undercoating would cause the undercoating to really stink when the car is running. (Automotive undercoating that I'm familiar with tends to be stinky stuff as it is, even without getting heated up.)
> Any thoughts on whether coating the heat exchanger could dampen the buzzing? And what about using undercoating?
> Thanks,
> Richard

[richmccolman]

Thank for the input, Dave.
BTW, another response I got on this question (on the "anzhonda600owners" group) was from someone who's removed all the original coating from the heat exchanger and says that his heat exchanger doesn't buzz. (He did say that he's had his heat exchanger ceramic coated, though. Honestly, I can't say I'm an expert on ceramic coatings, but I'd be really surprised if a ceramic coating has much of anything in the way of a sound dampening characteristic. Besides, I wonder whether my heat exchanger is already ceramic coated - as I said, the original factory coating is gone, but the metal isn't rusted (it looks dark gray). It's either got some good high-temp paint, or perhaps a previous owner already ceramic coated it.)
Although the input is appreciated, I'm gonna bypass your suggestion of replacing the heat exchanger with an eliminator pipe. I absolutely love my z600's heater - wow that thing puts out! It can get so hot, in fact, that most winter days it can quickly run you out of the car if you turn it on full blast! (After having driven an old VW Super Beetle for years, I got used to weak heat in an air-cooled-engine car with heat exchangers. The old air-cooled VW design works okay IF everything is in order, but there are so many ways that warm air can leak or be blocked, coming all the way from the back of the car up to the front, that those heaters can be a major problem. I'd forgotten just how well the Honda 600's heater worked from when I owned a sedan prior to owning the Super Beetle.) With NC winters being what there are sometimes, I simply couldn't live without my coupe's heater, especially given how well it works!
Miles is probably right in this case, there's something loose or broken inside (an aluminum fin, perhaps) the heat exchanger, and the best or only way to fix it is to try binding up whatever is loose using some sheet metal screws. It looks like I'd need to remove it front the car to do anything effective.
BTW, is it possible to remove the heat exchanger without dropping the engine? It looks like it could be a real bear to try that. I'd rather avoid dropping the engine just for this. On the other hand, the buzz is pretty aggravating, so I'd like to fix it sooner rather than later, if possible.
Richard

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "Dave Douglass AIA" wrote:
> You can wrap it with the header wrap found on motorcycles and hotrods or you can have it ceramic coated. Also a high temp rino lining might work if the temps are not too high. You could always repalce it with one that doesnt buxx or install an eliminator pipe.
> Dave
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> > I think that I've isolated (via stethoscope) the buzzing noise I'm hearing from my coupe when revved to 4,000 rpm or above to (ta da) - the heat exchanger. Miles has suggested that such noise could be due to a loose or broken aluminum fin inside.
> > However, one thing that I haven't mentioned is that it appears the car's heat exchanger has no sound deadening material whatsoever coating the outside sheet metal. (I'm guessing that a previous owner must've had the original sound deadening material sandblasted off.) I'm wondering if the lack of sound deadening material could be contributing to the noise.
> > Also, if I were to attempt to re-coat the heat exchanger, what would the experts here recommend? At one point, I think that someone suggested the heat exchanger's sound deadener was essentially the same as automotive undercoating. The concern I'd have, though, is whether the heat generated by the undercoating would cause the undercoating to really stink when the car is running. (Automotive undercoating that I'm familiar with tends to be stinky stuff as it is, even without getting heated up.)
> > Any thoughts on whether coating the heat exchanger could dampen the buzzing? And what about using undercoating?
> > Thanks,
> > Richard

[Eric Geiger]

i was the one who had everything ceramic coated.
as for removing the heat exchanger with the engine in the car yes you can.   i was able to remove mine when i was doing some work on my car recently.   in the long run i ended up removing the entire engine and sub frame once i got deeper into the project because i realized more was wrong with my engine than i first thought and decided to do some other work that required pulling the sub frame.  i had already removed the cooling fan when i did this though which made for more room and also had to take off the front grill,bumper and turn signal lights but i was able to pull it out.  i don't know how rusted any of your exhaust bolts are, but mine were very clean which helped a ton. if yours are rusted it may be tougher as some of the spaces were very tight .  i think when i removed mine i took off the header section and heat exchanger as one unit because one bolt was stripped.
good luck.
Eric J. Geiger
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX  phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX  fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX  mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com

On Oct 4, 2012, at 8:56 AM, richmccolman wrote:
> Thank for the input, Dave.
> BTW, another response I got on this question (on the "anzhonda600owners" group) was from someone who's removed all the original coating from the heat exchanger and says that his heat exchanger doesn't buzz. (He did say that he's had his heat exchanger ceramic > coated, though. Honestly, I can't say I'm an expert on ceramic coatings, but I'd be really surprised if a ceramic coating has much of anything in the way of a sound dampening characteristic. Besides, I wonder whether my heat exchanger is already ceramic coated > - as I said, the original factory coating is gone, but the metal isn't rusted (it looks dark gray). It's either got some good high-temp paint, or perhaps a previous owner already ceramic coated it.)
> Although the input is appreciated, I'm gonna bypass your suggestion of replacing the heat exchanger with an eliminator pipe. I absolutely love my z600's heater - wow that thing puts out! It can get so hot, in fact, that most winter days it can quickly run you > out of the car if you turn it on full blast! (After having driven an old VW Super Beetle for years, I got used to weak heat in an air-cooled-engine car with heat exchangers. The old air-cooled VW design works okay IF everything is in order, but there are so > many ways that warm air can leak or be blocked, coming all the way from the back of the car up to the front, that those heaters can be a major problem. I'd forgotten just how well the Honda 600's heater worked from when I owned a sedan prior to owning the > Super Beetle.) With NC winters being what there are sometimes, I simply couldn't live without my coupe's heater, especially given how well it works!
> Miles is probably right in this case, there's something loose or broken inside (an aluminum fin, perhaps) the heat exchanger, and the best or only way to fix it is to try binding up whatever is loose using some sheet metal screws. It looks like I'd need to > remove it front the car to do anything effective.
> BTW, is it possible to remove the heat exchanger without dropping the engine? It looks like it could be a real bear to try that. I'd rather avoid dropping the engine just for this. On the other hand, the buzz is pretty aggravating, so I'd like to fix it sooner > rather than later, if possible.
> Richard
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "Dave Douglass AIA" wrote:
> > You can wrap it with the header wrap found on motorcycles and hotrods or you can have it ceramic coated. Also a high temp rino lining might work if the temps are not too high. You could always repalce it with one that doesnt buxx or install an eliminator > pipe.
> > Dave
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "richmccolman" wrote:
> > > I think that I've isolated (via stethoscope) the buzzing noise I'm hearing from my coupe when revved to 4,000 rpm or above to (ta da) - the heat exchanger. Miles has suggested that such noise could be due to a loose or broken aluminum fin inside.
> > > However, one thing that I haven't mentioned is that it appears the car's heat exchanger has no sound deadening material whatsoever coating the outside sheet metal. (I'm guessing that a previous owner must've had the original sound deadening material sandblasted > off.) I'm wondering if the lack of sound deadening material could be contributing to the noise.
> > > Also, if I were to attempt to re-coat the heat exchanger, what would the experts here recommend? At one point, I think that someone suggested the heat exchanger's sound deadener was essentially the same as automotive undercoating. The concern I'd have, > though, is whether the heat generated by the undercoating would cause the undercoating to really stink when the car is running. (Automotive undercoating that I'm familiar with tends to be stinky stuff as it is, even without getting heated up.)
> > > Any thoughts on whether coating the heat exchanger could dampen the buzzing? And what about using undercoating?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Richard

[richmccolman]

Thanks, Eric!
Richard

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Eric Geiger wrote:
> i was the one who had everything ceramic coated.
> as for removing the heat exchanger with the engine in the car yes you can. i was able to remove mine when i was doing some work on my car recently. in the long run i ended up removing the entire engine and sub frame once i got deeper into the project because i realized more was wrong with my engine than i first thought and decided to do some other work that required pulling the sub frame. i had already removed the cooling fan when i did this though which made for more room and also had to take off the front grill,bumper and turn signal lights but i was able to pull it out. i don't know how rusted any of your exhaust bolts are, but mine were very clean which helped a ton. if yours are rusted it may be tougher as some of the spaces were very tight . i think when i removed mine i took off the header section and heat exchanger as one unit because one bolt was stripped.
> good luck.
> Eric J. Geiger
> PRG Nocturne
> XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> egeiger@...
> www.prgnocturne.com On Oct 4, 2012, at 8:56 AM, richmccolman wrote:
> Thank for the input, Dave.
> BTW, another response I got on this question (on the "anzhonda600owners" group) was from someone who's removed all the original coating from the heat exchanger and says that his heat exchanger doesn't buzz. (He did say that he's had his heat exchanger ceramic coated, though. Honestly, I can't say I'm an expert on ceramic coatings, but I'd be really surprised if a ceramic coating has much of anything in the way of a sound dampening characteristic. Besides, I wonder whether my heat exchanger is already ceramic coated - as I said, the original factory coating is gone, but the metal isn't rusted (it looks dark gray). It's either got some good high-temp paint, or perhaps a previous owner already ceramic coated it.)
> Although the input is appreciated, I'm gonna bypass your suggestion of replacing the heat exchanger with an eliminator pipe. I absolutely love my z600's heater - wow that thing puts out! It can get so hot, in fact, that most winter days it can quickly run you out of the car if you turn it on full blast! (After having driven an old VW Super Beetle for years, I got used to weak heat in an air-cooled-engine car with heat exchangers. The old air-cooled VW design works okay IF everything is in order, but there are so many ways that warm air can leak or be blocked, coming all the way from the back of the car up to the front, that those heaters can be a major problem. I'd forgotten just how well the Honda 600's heater worked from when I owned a sedan prior to owning the Super Beetle.) With NC winters being what there are sometimes, I simply couldn't live without my coupe's heater, especially given how well it works!
> Miles is probably right in this case, there's something loose or broken inside (an aluminum fin, perhaps) the heat exchanger, and the best or only way to fix it is to try binding up whatever is loose using some sheet metal screws. It looks like I'd need to remove it front the car to do anything effective.
> BTW, is it possible to remove the heat exchanger without dropping the engine? It looks like it could be a real bear to try that. I'd rather avoid dropping the engine just for this. On the other hand, the buzz is pretty aggravating, so I'd like to fix it sooner rather than later, if possible.
> Richard
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "Dave Douglass AIA" wrote:
> > You can wrap it with the header wrap found on motorcycles and hotrods or you can have it ceramic coated. Also a high temp rino lining might work if the temps are not too high. You could always repalce it with one that doesnt buxx or install an eliminator pipe.
> > Dave
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> > > I think that I've isolated (via stethoscope) the buzzing noise I'm hearing from my coupe when revved to 4,000 rpm or above to (ta da) - the heat exchanger. Miles has suggested that such noise could be due to a loose or broken aluminum fin inside.
> > > However, one thing that I haven't mentioned is that it appears the car's heat exchanger has no sound deadening material whatsoever coating the outside sheet metal. (I'm guessing that a previous owner must've had the original sound deadening material sandblasted off.) I'm wondering if the lack of sound deadening material could be contributing to the noise.
> > > Also, if I were to attempt to re-coat the heat exchanger, what would the experts here recommend? At one point, I think that someone suggested the heat exchanger's sound deadener was essentially the same as automotive undercoating. The concern I'd have, though, is whether the heat generated by the undercoating would cause the undercoating to really stink when the car is running. (Automotive undercoating that I'm familiar with tends to be stinky stuff as it is, even without getting heated up.)
> > > Any thoughts on whether coating the heat exchanger could dampen the buzzing? And what about using undercoating?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Richard