Hi folks,
Recently my 600 has developed a problem where it doesn't start. Just
before this problem occured I remember the car not wanting to rev
upwards of 4k rpm.
I've ruled out fuel, the battery, and the starter. I've tried
starting fluid, the battery has tons of juice on a fresh recharge,
and the engine cranks like no tomorrow. So it seems as though it's
just missing spark. Only thing is, I haven't a clue how to work with
the electronics on this car.
Is there some kind of check list I could follow? My foundation in
mechanics is lacking some of the basics from "older" cars. I can swap
motors and fully service cars from '85 and up all day long, but
before that I'm stumped.
thanks a lot!
-mike
Car doesn't start, electrical help?
Re: Car doesn't start, electrical help?
I have had a problem like this. You said it "cranks like no tomorrow" is that like it has no compression. If so look into the timing chain and the timing of the head. You need to check the marks at top dead center to see if it is correct. If it jumped the chain the valves are bent and that is way you get no compression and the engine just spins "to easy" or "cranks like no tomorrow".
ken
ken
-
mruane_cnet
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:05 am
Re: Car doesn't start, electrical help?
Sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean to imply that it cranked
easier than normal. It just sits there and cranks like normal with
the sound of health and full strength, but there's no ignition.
I will check the chain to *hopefully* rule that out though.
It does feel like electrical issues... I never heard anything strange
(nothing like the sound of valves and pistons colliding). Also the
problem started overnight. I drove, I parked, I cam back the next day
and it wouldn't start. It was getting a bit hard to start prior to
that (as well as the not revving past 4k rpm), but after a couple
tries it would run. Perhaps a moisture/rust issue? Is this common
anywhere in particular in the ignition system on these cars? I
hope "everywhere" isn't an answer :)
Thank you very much for the response!
easier than normal. It just sits there and cranks like normal with
the sound of health and full strength, but there's no ignition.
I will check the chain to *hopefully* rule that out though.
It does feel like electrical issues... I never heard anything strange
(nothing like the sound of valves and pistons colliding). Also the
problem started overnight. I drove, I parked, I cam back the next day
and it wouldn't start. It was getting a bit hard to start prior to
that (as well as the not revving past 4k rpm), but after a couple
tries it would run. Perhaps a moisture/rust issue? Is this common
anywhere in particular in the ignition system on these cars? I
hope "everywhere" isn't an answer :)
Thank you very much for the response!
Re: Car doesn't start, electrical help?
I know this seems easy but if it is not the valves us old timers have a timing light in our shop. (BY the way you will not hear the bang of the valves trust me I know way to well).
Both plugs fire at the same time so place a timing light in one of the spark plug lines. See if you get any indication there is a firing. (I do like to old inline version for this test but either an inline or inductive will work). If you do not get a signal then disconnect the other plug in case one of the plugs has a short.
This test just gets you in the ball park. Without spark you get nothing. This will tell you if electrical is working in one pass. If you have spark then you have eliminated this. If you do not get a spark then look at the points and cap cheap to replace but you will have set point gaps etc.
I would check to see if you have correct timing at this point while you are there.
If you don't have spark, I would find an old timer around that will come over for a couple of beers to help you, once you see how it's done it's easy.
Ken
Both plugs fire at the same time so place a timing light in one of the spark plug lines. See if you get any indication there is a firing. (I do like to old inline version for this test but either an inline or inductive will work). If you do not get a signal then disconnect the other plug in case one of the plugs has a short.
This test just gets you in the ball park. Without spark you get nothing. This will tell you if electrical is working in one pass. If you have spark then you have eliminated this. If you do not get a spark then look at the points and cap cheap to replace but you will have set point gaps etc.
I would check to see if you have correct timing at this point while you are there.
If you don't have spark, I would find an old timer around that will come over for a couple of beers to help you, once you see how it's done it's easy.
Ken
-
nicholas_riopelle2001
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:10 am
Re: Car doesn't start, electrical help?
---As was mentioned, you need to check and see if you have spark. I
would start with pulling out the plugs, and looking at their
condition. Then, with wire connected, lay plug on engine and have
someone turn engine over. If their is spark, then I would think
there is more that ignition woes. Try disconnecting the gas line
from the carb, then turn the ignition switch on to see if the fuel
pump is pumping. You could have a plugged filter. Also as
mentioned, you need to see if it possible jumped timing. Easy to
do. Bill has a procedure here in the files department on it.
Nick.
In anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com, "mruane_cnet" wrote:
would start with pulling out the plugs, and looking at their
condition. Then, with wire connected, lay plug on engine and have
someone turn engine over. If their is spark, then I would think
there is more that ignition woes. Try disconnecting the gas line
from the carb, then turn the ignition switch on to see if the fuel
pump is pumping. You could have a plugged filter. Also as
mentioned, you need to see if it possible jumped timing. Easy to
do. Bill has a procedure here in the files department on it.
Nick.
In anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com, "mruane_cnet" wrote:
> Sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean to imply that it cranked
> easier than normal. It just sits there and cranks like normal with
> the sound of health and full strength, but there's no ignition.
> I will check the chain to *hopefully* rule that out though.
> It does feel like electrical issues... I never heard anything strange
> (nothing like the sound of valves and pistons colliding). Also the
> problem started overnight. I drove, I parked, I cam back the next day
> and it wouldn't start. It was getting a bit hard to start prior to
> that (as well as the not revving past 4k rpm), but after a couple
> tries it would run. Perhaps a moisture/rust issue? Is this common
> anywhere in particular in the ignition system on these cars? I
> hope "everywhere" isn't an answer :)
> Thank you very much for the response!
Re: Car doesn't start, electrical help?
Are you sure there is fuel getting into the engine, we once deemed a old n600 buggered, and went into an old barn for about three years, then one day was asked ro remove it, bought another one, with a carb, sawpped the carb out of a trial thing., and wang bang, all action. All that was wrong was the carb needed recon, so all the time neglected for nothing, just a thought, you never know.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> mruane_cnet
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:30
> AM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Re: Car
> doesn't start, electrical help?
> Sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean to imply that it
> cranked
> easier than normal. It just sits there and cranks like normal with
> the sound of health and full strength, but there's no ignition.
> I
> will check the chain to *hopefully* rule that out though.
> It does feel
> like electrical issues... I never heard anything strange > (nothing like the > sound of valves and pistons colliding). Also the > problem started > overnight. I drove, I parked, I cam back the next day > and it wouldn't > start. It was getting a bit hard to start prior to > that (as well as the > not revving past 4k rpm), but after a couple > tries it would run. Perhaps a > moisture/rust issue? Is this common > anywhere in particular in the ignition > system on these cars? I > hope "everywhere" isn't an answer :) > Thank > you very much for the response!
-
dealadayray
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:08 am
Re: Car doesn't start, electrical help?
Hi,
If your car was working before, but stopped. Then there has to be a reason. Electricals are based totally on wires.
With the engine off, pull both plugs and clean them until dry. Check the gap. Look at the wires from the coil and check to see if they are screwed onto the ends tight. Then reattach both plugs with out threading them back into the head. Just lay them on top of the engine where you can see them when some one else turns the car over. If you have spark, then that is a good thing. If not, then go to the distributor and see if the wires are all put together, nuts tight, point still there, etc... Check the Grounds to the engine and frame. look at the wires coming from the coil besides the plug wires. This really is simple stuff. But often we forget that simple things can cause all kinds of work.
But back to the plugs have spark. Then put them back into the head and start your engine.
Bill
If your car was working before, but stopped. Then there has to be a reason. Electricals are based totally on wires.
With the engine off, pull both plugs and clean them until dry. Check the gap. Look at the wires from the coil and check to see if they are screwed onto the ends tight. Then reattach both plugs with out threading them back into the head. Just lay them on top of the engine where you can see them when some one else turns the car over. If you have spark, then that is a good thing. If not, then go to the distributor and see if the wires are all put together, nuts tight, point still there, etc... Check the Grounds to the engine and frame. look at the wires coming from the coil besides the plug wires. This really is simple stuff. But often we forget that simple things can cause all kinds of work.
But back to the plugs have spark. Then put them back into the head and start your engine.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> Quentin
> [mailto:adal26@...]
> Sent:
> Friday, April 09, 2004 8:04
> PM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re:
> [anzhonda600owners] Re: Car doesn't start, electrical
> help?
> Are you sure there is fuel getting into the
> engine, we once deemed a old n600 buggered, and went into an old barn for > about three years, then one day was asked ro remove it, bought another one, > with a carb, sawpped the carb out of a trial thing., and wang bang, all > action. All that was wrong was the carb needed recon, so all the time > neglected for nothing, just a thought, you never know.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > mruane_cnet
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent:
> > Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:30
> > AM
> > Subject:
> > [anzhonda600owners] Re: Car
> > doesn't start, electrical help?
> > Sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean to imply that it
> > cranked
> > easier than normal. It just sits there and cranks like normal > > with > > the sound of health and full strength, but there's no > > ignition.
> > I will check the chain to *hopefully* rule that out
> > though.
> > It does feel like electrical issues... I never heard anything > > strange > > (nothing like the sound of valves and pistons colliding). Also > > the > > problem started overnight. I drove, I parked, I cam back the next > > day > > and it wouldn't start. It was getting a bit hard to start prior to
> > that (as well as the not revving past 4k rpm), but after a couple
> > tries it would run. Perhaps a moisture/rust issue? Is this common
> > anywhere in particular in the ignition system on these cars? I > > hope > > "everywhere" isn't an answer :) > > Thank you very much for the > > response!
-
Mike Ruane
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:48 am
Re: Car doesn't start, electrical help?
Ladies and gentlemen, we have ignition.
As suggested, I tried using a timing light. She started on the second try only after I hooked up the timing light, and now starts fine.
I'm a little confused as to why a month or two of attempts went unsuccessful until I tried the timing gun... unless it completed a circuit caused by a bad ground? I'll check it out as best I can.
The only other difference is usually I try to start it after work, 6 or 7pm. And right now its a sunny afternoon. Cold start issues maybe?
This couldn't have happened on a better day, I just received a vehicle abatement notice from the city. I was moving it on street cleaning days, but it wasn't good enough that I was pushing it :( I can't believe someone reported a car that takes up have the space as theirs.
Either way, thank you all for the help. I'm going to take a close look at the electrical system and see if I can't get rid of the gremlins.
One more 600 on the road...
-mike
As suggested, I tried using a timing light. She started on the second try only after I hooked up the timing light, and now starts fine.
I'm a little confused as to why a month or two of attempts went unsuccessful until I tried the timing gun... unless it completed a circuit caused by a bad ground? I'll check it out as best I can.
The only other difference is usually I try to start it after work, 6 or 7pm. And right now its a sunny afternoon. Cold start issues maybe?
This couldn't have happened on a better day, I just received a vehicle abatement notice from the city. I was moving it on street cleaning days, but it wasn't good enough that I was pushing it :( I can't believe someone reported a car that takes up have the space as theirs.
Either way, thank you all for the help. I'm going to take a close look at the electrical system and see if I can't get rid of the gremlins.
One more 600 on the road...
-mike