New Chain Tensioner Rollers

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:34 pm

I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
We are working on material and design issues.
This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
Please add your thoughts.
Thanks
Lyle

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:17 pm

It would be great to have new cheap spares of this tensioner sprocket.
I base my decision on feeling I can return my worn units on the fact that the only part worn away is part of the original half-tooth profile. The chain link recess in the plastic is still very much there & I consider that to be more important for assured chain/sprocket location to be retained.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> We are working on material and design issues.
> This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> Please add your thoughts.
> Thanks
> Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:20 pm

Marshall, turning them under size is an option.
I wonder what they are made of?
Rubber, plastic?
They have held up pretty well.
I have time before I need my engine back together, so will look for other options.
See 2cylinder Honda site also.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> It would be great to have new cheap spares of this tensioner sprocket.
> I base my decision on feeling I can return my worn units on the fact that the only part worn away is part of the original half-tooth profile. The chain link recess in the plastic is still very much there & I consider that to be more important for assured chain/sprocket location to be retained.
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> > I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> > We are working on material and design issues.
> > This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> > I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> > Please add your thoughts.
> > Thanks
> > Lyle

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:02 pm

Certainly a tough material Lyle. Just thinking about how this little wheel is tensioned. Every engine start, their is going to be a momentary lack of hydraulic pressure. I can envisage it being subjected to some pretty harsh treatment from the chain at that point. It's no wonder they lose their profile.
With a healthy oil pressure behind it during normal running, their should be little tendency for it to jump the chain.
Marshall.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Marshall, turning them under size is an option.
> I wonder what they are made of?
> Rubber, plastic?
> They have held up pretty well.
> I have time before I need my engine back together, so will look for other options.
> See 2cylinder Honda site also.
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > It would be great to have new cheap spares of this tensioner sprocket.
> > I base my decision on feeling I can return my worn units on the fact that the only part worn away is part of the original half-tooth profile. The chain link recess in the plastic is still very much there & I consider that to be more important for assured chain/sprocket location to be retained.
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> > > I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> > > We are working on material and design issues.
> > > This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> > > I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> > > Please add your thoughts.
> > > Thanks
> > > Lyle

T W S · Post by **T W S** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:59 pm

i thought maybe it was a material called micarta(You can check it out on Wikipedia). it looks really similar to the pulleys for the controls on my plane

--- On
Tue, 6/29/10, lyletrudell

wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: New Chain Tensioner Rollers > To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 6:18 PM
> Marshall, turning them under size is an option.
> I wonder what they are made of?
> Rubber, plastic?
> They have held up pretty well.
> I have time before I need my engine back together, so will look for other options.
> See 2cylinder Honda site also.
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , "Marshall" wrote:
> > It would be great to have new cheap spares of this tensioner sprocket.
> > I base my decision on feeling I can return my worn units on the fact that the only part worn away is part of the original half-tooth profile. The chain link recess in the plastic is still very much there & I consider that to be more important for assured chain/sprocket location to be retained.
> > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> > > I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> > > We are working on material and design issues.
> > > This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> > > I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> > > Please add your thoughts.
> > > Thanks
> > > Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:05 pm

Micarta, Garolite or Phenolic as I have heard it called, is a hard material that has paper, cotton, or fiber glass woven into the resin.
Very hard to machine and the dust is bad for the machine ways.
I don't think this is what the rollers are made of.
The rollers look to be Buna-N or Neoprene rubber that has hardened over the years.
How about high strength Viton Rubber, it has much better specs than other rubber.
A 400F degree max heat and is excellent for use in oil.
Maybe mold it?
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, T W S wrote:
> i thought maybe it was a material called micarta(You can check it out on Wikipedia). it looks really similar to the pulleys for the controls on my plane
> --- On Tue, 6/29/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: New Chain Tensioner Rollers
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 6:18 PM
> Marshall, turning them under size is an option.
> I wonder what they are made of?
> Rubber, plastic?
> They have held up pretty well.
> I have time before I need my engine back together, so will look for other options.
> See 2cylinder Honda site also.
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > It would be great to have new cheap spares of this tensioner sprocket.
> > I base my decision on feeling I can return my worn units on the fact that the only part worn away is part of the original half-tooth profile. The chain link recess in the plastic is still very much there & I consider that to be more important for assured chain/sprocket location to be retained.
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> > > I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> > > We are working on material and design issues.
> > > This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> > > I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> > > Please add your thoughts.
> > > Thanks
> > > Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:27 pm

I have been looking at timing chain tensioners from all types of motorcycles and cars, the internet is great. One thing I have noticed is that nobody since the mid 1970's uses an idler wheel type tensioner anymore! Well maybe a 70cc moped. It can't hold up to the RPM, heat and load of the new engines.
So unless we can find another Honda motorcycle engine that uses a simular wheel tensioner, we might want to look at another design. Almost all engine manufacturers now use a slider rail type system.
Maybe we should look into adapting this to our cars if it's easy to do.
?
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Micarta, Garolite or Phenolic as I have heard it called, is a hard material that has paper, cotton, or fiber glass woven into the resin.
> Very hard to machine and the dust is bad for the machine ways.
> I don't think this is what the rollers are made of.
> The rollers look to be Buna-N or Neoprene rubber that has hardened over the years.
> How about high strength Viton Rubber, it has much better specs than other rubber.
> A 400F degree max heat and is excellent for use in oil.
> Maybe mold it?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, T W S wrote:
> > i thought maybe it was a material called micarta(You can check it out on Wikipedia). it looks really similar to the pulleys for the controls on my plane
> > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> > From: lyletrudell
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: New Chain Tensioner Rollers
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 6:18 PM
> > Marshall, turning them under size is an option.
> > I wonder what they are made of?
> > Rubber, plastic?
> > They have held up pretty well.
> > I have time before I need my engine back together, so will look for other options.
> > See 2cylinder Honda site also.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > > It would be great to have new cheap spares of this tensioner sprocket.
> > > I base my decision on feeling I can return my worn units on the fact that the only part worn away is part of the original half-tooth profile. The chain link recess in the plastic is still very much there & I consider that to be more important for assured chain/sprocket location to be retained.
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> > > > I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> > > > We are working on material and design issues.
> > > > This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> > > > I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> > > > Please add your thoughts.
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:32 pm

Hey, I found something that looks promising!
Do an EBAY search for:
"Z50, CT70, C70, XR70 cam chain"
This one is made in Thailand but others I see in California.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-AT ... ccessories
Check it out, maybe we can use these as is or modify them.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> I have been looking at timing chain tensioners from all types of motorcycles and cars, the internet is great. One thing I have noticed is that nobody since the mid 1970's uses an idler wheel type tensioner anymore! Well maybe a 70cc moped. It can't hold up to the RPM, heat and load of the new engines.
> So unless we can find another Honda motorcycle engine that uses a simular wheel tensioner, we might want to look at another design. Almost all engine manufacturers now use a slider rail type system.
> Maybe we should look into adapting this to our cars if it's easy to do.
> ?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Micarta, Garolite or Phenolic as I have heard it called, is a hard material that has paper, cotton, or fiber glass woven into the resin.
> > Very hard to machine and the dust is bad for the machine ways.
> > I don't think this is what the rollers are made of.
> > The rollers look to be Buna-N or Neoprene rubber that has hardened over the years.
> > How about high strength Viton Rubber, it has much better specs than other rubber.
> > A 400F degree max heat and is excellent for use in oil.
> > Maybe mold it?
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, T W S wrote:
> > > i thought maybe it was a material called micarta(You can check it out on Wikipedia). it looks really similar to the pulleys for the controls on my plane
> > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> > > From: lyletrudell
> > > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: New Chain Tensioner Rollers
> > > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 6:18 PM
> > > Marshall, turning them under size is an option.
> > > I wonder what they are made of?
> > > Rubber, plastic?
> > > They have held up pretty well.
> > > I have time before I need my engine back together, so will look for other options.
> > > See 2cylinder Honda site also.
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > > > It would be great to have new cheap spares of this tensioner sprocket.
> > > > I base my decision on feeling I can return my worn units on the fact that the only part worn away is part of the original half-tooth profile. The chain link recess in the plastic is still very much there & I consider that to be more important for assured chain/sprocket location to be retained.
> > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> > > > > I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> > > > > We are working on material and design issues.
> > > > > This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> > > > > I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> > > > > Please add your thoughts.
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:38 pm

This one is in the USA!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CL ... ccessories
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Hey, I found something that looks promising!
> Do an EBAY search for:
> "Z50, CT70, C70, XR70 cam chain"
> This one is made in Thailand but others I see in California.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-AT ... ccessories
> Check it out, maybe we can use these as is or modify them.
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > I have been looking at timing chain tensioners from all types of motorcycles and cars, the internet is great. One thing I have noticed is that nobody since the mid 1970's uses an idler wheel type tensioner anymore! Well maybe a 70cc moped. It can't hold up to the RPM, heat and load of the new engines.
> > So unless we can find another Honda motorcycle engine that uses a simular wheel tensioner, we might want to look at another design. Almost all engine manufacturers now use a slider rail type system.
> > Maybe we should look into adapting this to our cars if it's easy to do.
> > ?
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Micarta, Garolite or Phenolic as I have heard it called, is a hard material that has paper, cotton, or fiber glass woven into the resin.
> > > Very hard to machine and the dust is bad for the machine ways.
> > > I don't think this is what the rollers are made of.
> > > The rollers look to be Buna-N or Neoprene rubber that has hardened over the years.
> > > How about high strength Viton Rubber, it has much better specs than other rubber.
> > > A 400F degree max heat and is excellent for use in oil.
> > > Maybe mold it?
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, T W S wrote:
> > > > i thought maybe it was a material called micarta(You can check it out on Wikipedia). it looks really similar to the pulleys for the controls on my plane
> > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> > > > From: lyletrudell
> > > > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: New Chain Tensioner Rollers
> > > > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 6:18 PM
> > > > Marshall, turning them under size is an option.
> > > > I wonder what they are made of?
> > > > Rubber, plastic?
> > > > They have held up pretty well.
> > > > I have time before I need my engine back together, so will look for other options.
> > > > See 2cylinder Honda site also.
> > > > Lyle
> > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > > > > It would be great to have new cheap spares of this tensioner sprocket.
> > > > > I base my decision on feeling I can return my worn units on the fact that the only part worn away is part of the original half-tooth profile. The chain link recess in the plastic is still very much there & I consider that to be more important for assured chain/sprocket location to be retained.
> > > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > I don't really want to use 38 year old rubber/plastic chain tensioner rollers in my fresh rebuild.
> > > > > > I talked to Miles and Bill about making new rollers.
> > > > > > We are working on material and design issues.
> > > > > > This is an important part of any rebuild and should be a pretty cheap part to make.
> > > > > > I know there are other people who have a lot of experience with these engines, I don't want to leave anyone out of the design process.
> > > > > > Please add your thoughts.
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > Lyle