Shoulder seat belts

[richmccolman]

The belt retractor is mounted down low in my coupe. I don't remember the placement in the sedan I owned years ago. The bolt hole in your 600 could be hard to locate through the carpet -- and if it was ever re-carpeted, the new carpet might have been installed over the bolt hole without a corresponding hole cut into the carpet. If so, you might be able to locate it by punching an awl through the carpet in the approximate area when the bolt hole should be.
Richard

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "TOM THIES" wrote:
> I don't know if the retractor was mounted down by the floor or up. but it seems like I once saw they were mounted up. Cant remember how my was mounted in 72. The one I have now I cant fine a mount hole down low for the retractor.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: richmccolman
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:50 AM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> In some exploration on the web, I found these 3-point retractable seat belts:
http://www.retrobeltusa.com/products/details/id/2 Looks like they'd probably work in a A or Z 600, but at $91.90 per side, they're pricey. However, I found the same item here for a bit over half that price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RetroBelt-Seat- ... 0772819860 The webbing on buckle side of the belt is fully adjustable in length, so my guess is that we could make them match the webbing length of the original a/z600 belts.
> Richard
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Tad Clark wrote:
> > Miles,
> > You're right about the impractability of the shoulder belts. All of the 6 sedans I have owned (� 5- 70's and 1- 69) had them and I removed them. The 68 Im working on currently didn't even come with lap belts.
> > �
> > From: feltonminicycle
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:42 AM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> > �
> > I have a huge bag full of shoulder belts I took from cars I parted out or sedans & coupes. There are 2 varieties per sedan & coupe because of the retractor or non retractor types.
> > The shoulder belts are not pleasant to use. They restrict movement, are not retractable, I won't use them in my cars and never have in any of my cars. I was once stopped by a cop and because he saw my shoulder belt hanging - not in use.
> > It's not a big selling item since most cars had them.
> > Miles
> > --- In mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com, "Dave Douglass AIA" wrote:
> > > Of the 3 sedans Ive had none of them had shoulder belts and they all had the plastic plugs in the threded inserts. I've never seen a shoulderbelt for a sedan. I plan on installing a roll bar and shoulder belts in my sedan when its done.
> > > Dave
> > > --- In mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com, Tad Clark wrote:
> > > > The holes for the shoulder belts are under the rear side windows. The holes in the B- pillars are for optional grab handles.
> > > > The shoulder belts came up from the winows in the rear, over the shoulder and clipped to the lap belt latch. They are removable from the lap belt assembly. Rear shoulder belts were offered as an option. they attached to the corner brackets in the rear corners of the car. Sorry, no pics of belts.
> > > > From: hfmtn600
> > > > To: mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:41 AM
> > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> > > > �,�
> > > > My sedan has only lap belts front and back. I assume it never had shoulder belts because there are plastic plugs threaded into the mounting bolt holes in the frame near the top of the door. I had considered putting in retractable shoulder belts but there doesn't appear to be any space for the mechanism. Anyone have a photo of the factory setup or a custom setup?
> > > > --- In mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com, Tad Clark wrote:
> > > > > Honda sedans came with shoulder belts. At least in front.�f�?s�,� Are yours missing?
> > > > > From: hfmtn600
> > > > > To: mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:46 AM
> > > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Shoulder seat belts
> > > > > �f�?s�,�
> > > > > Anyone put shoulder belts in a 600 sedan? Seems like an easy safety upgrade. Any advice on a source would be appreciated

[TOM THIES]

thanks   I will look a bit more closely on my coupe.  It would be nice to have the retractable type and one more winter project......
Tom

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> richmccolman
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:27
> PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder
> seat belts
> The belt retractor is mounted down low in my coupe. I don't remember the > placement in the sedan I owned years ago. The bolt hole in your 600 could be > hard to locate through the carpet -- and if it was ever re-carpeted, the new > carpet might have been installed over the bolt hole without a corresponding > hole cut into the carpet. If so, you might be able to locate it by punching an > awl through the carpet in the approximate area when the bolt hole should > be.
> Richard
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "TOM THIES" wrote:
> > I don't know if the
> retractor was mounted down by the floor or up. but it seems like I once saw > they were mounted up. Cant remember how my was mounted in 72. The one I have > now I cant fine a mount hole down low for the retractor.
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> richmccolman
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:50 AM
> > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> In some exploration on the web, I found these 3-point retractable seat > belts:
> http://www.retrobeltusa.com/products/details/id/2
> http://www.retrobeltusa.com/products/details/id/2
> > Looks like they'd probably work in a A or Z 600, but at $91.90 per > side, they're pricey. However, I found the same item here for a bit over half > that price:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RetroBelt-Seat- ... 0772819860 > http://www.ebay.com/itm/RetroBelt-Seat- ... 0772819860
> > The webbing on buckle side of the belt is fully adjustable in length, > so my guess is that we could make them match the webbing length of the > original a/z600 belts.
> > Richard
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> Tad Clark wrote:
> > > Miles,
> > You're right about the impractability of the shoulder belts. All of the 6 > sedans I have owned (� 5- 70's and 1- 69) had them and I removed them. The 68 > Im working on currently didn't even come with lap belts.
> > > �
> > > From: feltonminicycle
>
> > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:42 AM
> > > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> > > �
> > > I have a huge bag full of shoulder belts I took from cars I > parted out or sedans & coupes. There are 2 varieties per sedan & coupe > because of the retractor or non retractor types.
> The shoulder belts are not pleasant to use. They restrict movement, are not > retractable, I won't use them in my cars and never have in any of my cars. I > was once stopped by a cop and because he saw my shoulder belt hanging - not in > use.
> > > It's not a big selling item since most cars
> had them.
> > > Miles
> > > --- In
> mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com, "Dave Douglass AIA" > wrote:
> > > > Of the 3
> sedans Ive had none of them had shoulder belts and they all had the plastic > plugs in the threded inserts. I've never seen a shoulderbelt for a sedan. I > plan on installing a roll bar and shoulder belts in my sedan when its done.
> > > > Dave
> > --- In mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com, Tad Clark > wrote:
> > > > > The
> holes for the shoulder belts are under the rear side windows. The holes in the > B- pillars are for optional grab handles.
> > > > > The shoulder
> belts came up from the winows in the rear, over the shoulder and clipped to > the lap belt latch. They are removable from the lap belt assembly. Rear > shoulder belts were offered as an option. they attached to the corner brackets > in the rear corners of the car. Sorry, no pics of belts.
> > > From: hfmtn600
> > > > > To:
> mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent:
> Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:41 AM
> > > > > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> > > �,�
> > > > > My sedan has only lap belts front and
> back. I assume it never had shoulder belts because there are plastic plugs > threaded into the mounting bolt holes in the frame near the top of the door. I > had considered putting in retractable shoulder belts but there doesn't appear > to be any space for the mechanism. Anyone have a photo of the factory setup or > a custom setup?
> > > > > --- In
> mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com, Tad Clark > wrote:
> > > > > > Honda sedans
> came with shoulder belts. At least in front.�f�?s�,� Are yours > missing?
> > > > > > From: hfmtn600
>
> > > > > > To:
> mailto:2cylinderhondas%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent:
> Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:46 AM
> > > > > > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Shoulder seat belts
> > > > > �f�?s�,�
> > > > > > Anyone put shoulder
> belts in a 600 sedan? Seems like an easy safety upgrade. Any advice on a > source would be appreciated

[Eric Geiger]

My 72 coupe has the retractor down on the floor between the seat and door
Eric J. Geiger
---------------------------------------
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com

On Nov 18, 2012, at 5:35 PM, "TOM THIES" wrote:
thanks   I will look a bit more closely on my coupe.  It would be nice to have the retractable type and one more winter project......
Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> richmccolman
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:27 PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> The belt retractor is mounted down low in my coupe. I don't remember the placement in the sedan I owned years ago. The bolt hole in your 600 could be hard to locate through the carpet -- and if it was ever re-carpeted, the new carpet might have been installed > over the bolt hole without a corresponding hole cut into the carpet. If so, you might be able to locate it by punching an awl through the carpet in the approximate area when the bolt hole should be.
> Richard
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "TOM THIES" wrote:
> > I don't know if the retractor was mounted down by the floor or up. but it seems like I once saw they were mounted up. Cant remember how my was mounted in 72. The one I have now I cant fine a mount hole down low for the retractor.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: richmccolman
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:50 AM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> > In some exploration on the web, I found these 3-point retractable seat belts:
> http://www.retrobeltusa.com/products/details/id/2
> http://www.retrobeltusa.com/products/details/id/2
> > Looks like they'd probably work in a A or Z 600, but at $91.90 per side, they're pricey. However, I found the same item here for a bit over half that price:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RetroBelt-Seat- ... 0772819860 > http://www.ebay.com/itm/RetroBelt-Seat- ... 0772819860
> > The webbing on buckle side of the belt is fully adjustable in length, so my guess is that we could make them match the webbing length of the original a/z600 belts.
> > Richard
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 40yahoogroups.com
> >, Tad Clark wrote:
> > > Miles,
> > > You're right about the impractability of the shoulder belts. All of the 6 sedans I have owned (� 5- 70's and 1- 69) had them and I removed them. The 68 Im working on currently didn't even come with lap belts.
> > > �
> > > From: feltonminicycle
> > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:42 AM
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> > > �
> > > I have a huge bag full of shoulder belts I took from cars I parted out or sedans & coupes. There are 2 varieties per sedan & coupe because of the retractor or non retractor types.
> > > The shoulder belts are not pleasant to use. They restrict movement, are not retractable, I won't use them in my cars and never have in any of my cars. I was once stopped by a cop and because he saw my shoulder belt hanging - not in use.
> > > It's not a big selling item since most cars had them.
> > > Miles
> > > --- In mailto:2cylinderhondas%
> 40yahoogroups.com
> , "Dave Douglass AIA" wrote:
> > > > Of the 3 sedans Ive had none of them had shoulder belts and they all had the plastic plugs in the threded inserts. I've never seen a shoulderbelt for a sedan. I plan on installing a roll bar and shoulder belts in my sedan when its done.
> > > > Dave
> > > > --- In mailto:2cylinderhondas%
> 40yahoogroups.com
> , Tad Clark wrote:
> > > > > The holes for the shoulder belts are under the rear side windows. The holes in the B- pillars are for optional grab handles.
> > > > > The shoulder belts came up from the winows in the rear, over the shoulder and clipped to the lap belt latch. They are removable from the lap belt assembly. Rear shoulder belts were offered as an option. they attached to the corner brackets in the rear > corners of the car. Sorry, no pics of belts.
> > > > > From: hfmtn600
> > > > > To: mailto:2cylinderhondas%
> 40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:41 AM
> > > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Shoulder seat belts
> > > > > �,�
> > > > > My sedan has only lap belts front and back. I assume it never had shoulder belts because there are plastic plugs threaded into the mounting bolt holes in the frame near the top of the door. I had considered putting in retractable shoulder belts but > there doesn't appear to be any space for the mechanism. Anyone have a photo of the factory setup or a custom setup?
> > > > > --- In mailto:2cylinderhondas%
> 40yahoogroups.com
> , Tad Clark wrote:
> > > > > > Honda sedans came with shoulder belts. At least in front.�f�?s�,� Are yours missing?
> > > > > > From: hfmtn600
> > > > > > To: mailto:2cylinderhondas%
> 40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:46 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Shoulder seat belts
> > > > > > �f�?s�,�
> > > > > > Anyone put shoulder belts in a 600 sedan? Seems like an easy safety upgrade. Any advice on a source would be appreciated

[J Graf]

Seat belts on both my 1970 sedans are NOT retractable. Can't check the 1972 sedan, but I believe that they are not retractable, either.
The 72 sedan and one of the 70s have front shoulder belts and rear seat lap belts. The other 70 doesn't have shoulder belts and, I think there are not any rear lap belts in it either.
John

On Nov 18, 2012, at 5:52 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> My 72 coupe has the retractor down on the floor between the seat and door

[Eric Geiger]

my 71 coupe has non retracting front seat belts
Eric J. Geiger
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX  phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX  fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX  mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com

On Nov 19, 2012, at 1:30 AM, J Graf wrote:
> Seat belts on both my 1970 sedans are NOT retractable. Can't check the 1972 sedan, but I believe that they are not retractable, either.
> The 72 sedan and one of the 70s have front shoulder belts and rear seat lap belts. The other 70 doesn't have shoulder belts and, I think there are not any rear lap belts in it either.
> John
> On Nov 18, 2012, at 5:52 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > My 72 coupe has the retractor down on the floor between the seat and door

[hfmtn600]

Thanks everyone for the input and possible sources for belts. It sounds like the original shoulder belts are not going be worth replacing. I think the best option would be the retro retractable 3 point shoulder belts just like a modern vehicle. I have the carpet out of the car and don't see any extra bolt holes down low behind the front seat to mouth the retractor. This would mean it would have to be mounted to the bolt stud that is up below the rear window which would put an odd angle on the retractor. I'm not sure if the retractors will work when mounted at that angle. It will be worth a try though.
One of you mentioned that the bolt in the top of the B post was not for a seat belt but rather for an optional grab handle. It looks to me like it is exactly like a seat belt mounting location and is the same bolt thread as the seat belt mounting bolts. I suspected it was put in for future shoulder belts. I have never seen the optional handle. Does anyone have these optional grab handles in their car?
Thanks,
Henri

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Eric Geiger wrote:
> my 71 coupe has non retracting front seat belts
> Eric J. Geiger
> PRG Nocturne
> XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> egeiger@...
> www.prgnocturne.com On Nov 19, 2012, at 1:30 AM, J Graf wrote:
> Seat belts on both my 1970 sedans are NOT retractable. Can't check the 1972 sedan, but I believe that they are not retractable, either.
> The 72 sedan and one of the 70s have front shoulder belts and rear seat lap belts. The other 70 doesn't have shoulder belts and, I think there are not any rear lap belts in it either.
> John
> On Nov 18, 2012, at 5:52 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > My 72 coupe has the retractor down on the floor between the seat and door

[richmccolman]

It may not have been intended by Honda for that purpose, but the hole in the top of the post is where I have my original Honda shoulder belt mounted. When I got the car, the shoulder belt was actually mounted to the hole under the rear window, but that seemed really odd to me -- most shoulder belts I'm familiar with extend down from above the seat, as opposed to back behind it -- so I remounted it to the upper post hole. Seems to work fine mounted there.
Henri -- are you absolutely sure there's no bolt hole down low? Not doubting you, but it seems really odd to me that you wouldn't have one there, while you do have the one below the rear window. In my coupe, the lower hole is located a bit below the door threshold. It's not down on the floor, however -- it's near the bottom of the vertically-oriented piece of sheet metal below the threshold, just behind the rearmost part of the front seat.
My inkling is that the retractor for the 3-point retractable belt would indeed need to mount under the rear window; the hole at the top of the door post would be where the belt webbing "slip loop" would mount; and the end of the belt would mount to a hole down low. (Buckle, of course, would mount in the hole behind the parking brake lever mechanism.) BTW, according to Retrobelt, the mounting of the retractor can be flexible:
"Our advanced reel system works when horizontally or vertically mounted and is not placement sensitive."
So from that I'm thinking that the retractor could be mounted to the hole under the rear window, even if it looks kinda odd there. (The only other option that comes to mind would be to have a threaded bolt hole insert welded somewhere else.)
Richard

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "hfmtn600" wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the input and possible sources for belts. It sounds like the original shoulder belts are not going be worth replacing. I think the best option would be the retro retractable 3 point shoulder belts just like a modern vehicle. I have the carpet out of the car and don't see any extra bolt holes down low behind the front seat to mouth the retractor. This would mean it would have to be mounted to the bolt stud that is up below the rear window which would put an odd angle on the retractor. I'm not sure if the retractors will work when mounted at that angle. It will be worth a try though.
> One of you mentioned that the bolt in the top of the B post was not for a seat belt but rather for an optional grab handle. It looks to me like it is exactly like a seat belt mounting location and is the same bolt thread as the seat belt mounting bolts. I suspected it was put in for future shoulder belts. I have never seen the optional handle. Does anyone have these optional grab handles in their car?
> Thanks,
> Henri
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > my 71 coupe has non retracting front seat belts
> > Eric J. Geiger
> > PRG Nocturne
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > egeiger@
> > www.prgnocturne.com > On Nov 19, 2012, at 1:30 AM, J Graf wrote:
> > Seat belts on both my 1970 sedans are NOT retractable. Can't check the 1972 sedan, but I believe that they are not retractable, either.
> > The 72 sedan and one of the 70s have front shoulder belts and rear seat lap belts. The other 70 doesn't have shoulder belts and, I think there are not any rear lap belts in it either.
> > John
> > On Nov 18, 2012, at 5:52 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > > My 72 coupe has the retractor down on the floor between the seat and door

[hfmtn600]

Thanks Richard,
I suppose I'm not set on a retractable seat belt - just want to have the added safety of the shoulder belt so I may go with a non-retractable type. I do have a hole below the door where the current lap belt bolts in so the three bolts could work to install the shoulder belt. I also considered welding a bolt to the inside near the floor just in front of the rear seat. That would be a great spot for the retractor. If i do go for it I'll post some photos.
Thanks for the advice.
Henri

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> It may not have been intended by Honda for that purpose, but the hole in the top of the post is where I have my original Honda shoulder belt mounted. When I got the car, the shoulder belt was actually mounted to the hole under the rear window, but that seemed really odd to me -- most shoulder belts I'm familiar with extend down from above the seat, as opposed to back behind it -- so I remounted it to the upper post hole. Seems to work fine mounted there.
> Henri -- are you absolutely sure there's no bolt hole down low? Not doubting you, but it seems really odd to me that you wouldn't have one there, while you do have the one below the rear window. In my coupe, the lower hole is located a bit below the door threshold. It's not down on the floor, however -- it's near the bottom of the vertically-oriented piece of sheet metal below the threshold, just behind the rearmost part of the front seat.
> My inkling is that the retractor for the 3-point retractable belt would indeed need to mount under the rear window; the hole at the top of the door post would be where the belt webbing "slip loop" would mount; and the end of the belt would mount to a hole down low. (Buckle, of course, would mount in the hole behind the parking brake lever mechanism.) BTW, according to Retrobelt, the mounting of the retractor can be flexible:
> "Our advanced reel system works when horizontally or vertically mounted and is not placement sensitive."
> So from that I'm thinking that the retractor could be mounted to the hole under the rear window, even if it looks kinda odd there. (The only other option that comes to mind would be to have a threaded bolt hole insert welded somewhere else.)
> Richard
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "hfmtn600" wrote:
> > Thanks everyone for the input and possible sources for belts. It sounds like the original shoulder belts are not going be worth replacing. I think the best option would be the retro retractable 3 point shoulder belts just like a modern vehicle. I have the carpet out of the car and don't see any extra bolt holes down low behind the front seat to mouth the retractor. This would mean it would have to be mounted to the bolt stud that is up below the rear window which would put an odd angle on the retractor. I'm not sure if the retractors will work when mounted at that angle. It will be worth a try though.
> > One of you mentioned that the bolt in the top of the B post was not for a seat belt but rather for an optional grab handle. It looks to me like it is exactly like a seat belt mounting location and is the same bolt thread as the seat belt mounting bolts. I suspected it was put in for future shoulder belts. I have never seen the optional handle. Does anyone have these optional grab handles in their car?
> > Thanks,
> > Henri
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > > my 71 coupe has non retracting front seat belts
> > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > PRG Nocturne
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > > egeiger@
> > > www.prgnocturne.com > > On Nov 19, 2012, at 1:30 AM, J Graf wrote:
> > > Seat belts on both my 1970 sedans are NOT retractable. Can't check the 1972 sedan, but I believe that they are not retractable, either.
> > > The 72 sedan and one of the 70s have front shoulder belts and rear seat lap belts. The other 70 doesn't have shoulder belts and, I think there are not any rear lap belts in it either.
> > > John
> > > On Nov 18, 2012, at 5:52 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > > > My 72 coupe has the retractor down on the floor between the seat and door