New 600 onwer

[SC]

I second that.
howardsugarman@...
wrote:

> Hi Bill, So... how much will this oil cooler retrofit
> cost? it definite sound good. I am interested in
> getting one, so... i dont have to pay for these
> expensive NOS filter when went ever i want to change
> the oil, i can walk into Autozone and pickup the
> filter and oil and im done under 10 bucks. :) I just
> recently got the car and havent even took the oil
> filter out as of yet. From looking at the manual, it
> looks like just a paper filter from like an ATV or
> something like that. I am definitely interested in the
> COOLER AND OIL Retrofit kit.
> Thanks
> Vaughn

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

[Larry]

I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but those of you that call the OE
filter for the 600 "EXPENSIVE", I can't believe how CHEAP you are... The
original filters are $12 to $15 at the dealer!!!!! AND, "Some little
Japanese engineer stayed up all night long", figuring out what the best
way to handle the oil in your car!!! The best thing you can do for your
600, is Castrol GTX 20w/50 oil and an original equipment filter!!! Quit
whining and go to the parts department at your local Honda dealer, or
call Tim Mings, or Mike Oconnor, or Miles Chappell and buy the RIGHT
filter for your cars!!!

[Larry]

P.S.
The plumbing for the oil cooler becomes one more thing hanging in the
lowest point of your car, and is then one INSTANT means of destroying
your engine, should something be laying in the road that you can't avoid
or see!!!!! Break one of the hoses, and you will empty your oil in a
matter of seconds, kissing your engine GOODBYE!!!!
Happy motoring!!!
I Love My N600
BONE STOCK!!!

[Lyle]

Hi Vaughn;
You can do this yourself, I have several filter caps and center
bolts already modified I can provide along with detailed instructions to
find the items you need and make it your self. The kit I have was put
together by me, they are made up from a some what long list of
manufacturers. The important thing is to keep the street "L" brass
fittings, hoses and clamps as close to the engine as possible. Harry
Lineback even added metal bands to protect the hoses from being hit. I
drove my car without any protection for 8 years and never had a problem.
Then there have been other owners that were not as mindful and hit curbs and
parking lot stall stops causing the hose to be pulled off. As the attached
picture shows they are really close to the engine and literally up away from
everything.
If your interested in more pictures and prices please e-mail me at
billmyong@.... But don't get me wrong, this is not a cheap
transition. The oil thermostat made by EMPI runs at just over $80.00 alone.
The cooler with the VW remote filter and coils (when listed) runs in the
$85.00 to $120.00 range. It would take a whole bunch of Honda filters to
brake even if that is your only reason for installing a oil cooler. The
real reason is that in the tests I have run (placing a modified oil drain
plug on a Honda 600 and installing a temperature gauge) I monitored engine
temperatures during many different driving conditions. This was on a motor
that had over 50 K on the speedometer. normally doing 65 on the freeways,
kept the Honda 600 running at about 165 degrees (where it should be), but
once off the freeway and stopping at the first light (a few hundred feet
from the off ramp) and temperatures would rise to 230 and above. And, then
because traffic normally slowed to 25 or less the engine kept that 230 and
in some instances went considerably higher. This was not just a quick few
times down the freeway and into traffic, I used the car as a daily driver
for almost a year, monitoring how it ran and if it got higher in the summer
or if I started driving on ground streets and over the same distance did the
temperature hit 230 or above in stop and go traffic as it did coming off the
freeway. And it always did, although taking longer the air traveling across
the engine and movement by the fan did not keep the oil at the 165 degree
range.
I then added the oil cooler and measured everything before starting
the test again. I drove it giving it full throttle from many a corner, and
then I pulled the engine every 10K miles and measured for wear. I won't say
there were not some things that had to be replaced. After 45K miles into
the test the cam chain had to be replaced as it had stretched almost 3/4in
from new. I also had re-used old transmission and all it's bearings when
first putting the engine together and I had a primary shaft bearing showing
some wear (they will start a side movement) which was replaced as well as
the transmission bearing keepers. But the most significant change in the
engine was that there was no tar (blackening from over heated oil) inside
the engine. I opened the oil filters after each oil change to see if there
were any metal chips or other foreign particles. I didn't find anything,
and I was using a 20W50 oil manufactured for motor cycles using the same oil
for both engine and transmission as the Honda 600 does. In fact, several
times I changed the filter every 3K miles and the oil at 6 to 7 months.
The test ran for almost 50K miles and 4 engine pulls and measuring key
points,
1 - piston wear causing piston slap
2 - piston ring wear
3 - piston cylinder wear
4 - oil pump wear
5 - transmission lash and bearings
6 - crank shaft end bearings and bearing cages
7 - cam end cap housings and cam.
8 - it the torque was maintained on the head studs and bolts
9 - rocker arms and shafts
just to name a few.
The test stopped when I sold the car in 1997. Will it add additional miles
to your Honda 600, I think so, and when I put a oil cooler on the engine I
first only had the oil temp gauge on, it ran much better. And, many of the
cars using an oil cooler are still on the road.
But if the metal is not there to begin with, nothing will keep it
wearing more and eventually break. Too much Heat causes wear, more oil and
keeping it at its optimal running temp along with better filters can only
help. Did Honda have a poor design with the filter they used, I don't think
so. However they didn't think people would still be driving them 30 years
later either.
Bill
Bill

[Lyle]

Hi Larry;
I have to agree with you, that when the Honda 600 was brand new it ran
quiet, had everything running at spec. I think 1969 was the last time any of
the "little Honda engineers stayed up all night. But the abundance of new
parts are just not there anymore. And, the only book that talks about
Castrol GTX 20w/50 oil is the Haynes manual and I have a letter from them
admitting (in there words) "it's shortcomings" dated 14 April 1988, where I
pointed out many inaccuracies the most critical of which was the head bolt
torque sequence. The GTX blend has been around for many years and although
advanced when the Haynes Publishing Group wrote about keeping your Honda on
the road, there are superior blends available today.
Race cars modify their oil pans to expand their capacity, and a 322 CI Jag
V12 hold over 8 quarts, as does the Cadillac Northstar V8 that is giving
200k driving ranges. But, 70's built Detroit iron ran 5 to 6 quarts in
similar displacements. These engineers made their computers work all day
and night.
What I am saying is adding a better filter, better oil while keeping it at
the correct temp. will keep your Honda 600 on the road longer than keeping
with the same old routine. Right now most Honda 600 engines are lasting
maybe a year when driven daily.
Bill

[Lyle]

Actually Larry, when put on correctly it hangs (as you tell it) less than an 1/8th  of an inch below the subframe when measured across the frame.   And is directly between the wheels.  A Skid plate used by many off road vehicles including ATV's.  Where hoses were a problem, it was because the owner didn't change them out when it was needed. See the attached picture.
    Remember, this is not Bill trying to get a buck, I too am looking at keeping these small cars on the road.  But in most cases the Honda filter is not being changed because people are finding it harder to come by.  I have been told by owners that they couldn't get one that day so they are waiting until they can find one.  3 to 4 months later they are still looking and still driving their car.
Bill

[howardsugarman]

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the long and detailed info that you had
taken your time to write and share with all of us
here. Pertaining to Larry comments on this Oil retro
fit... One day... not today but soon all of these guys
will not have these NOS parts to sell no more... Then
what will you do Larry??? Park your N600 and just
staring at it and just seeing it for its beauty? In my
opinion... not it only improve my engine life by
keeping it cooler but its also convenient for me just
to run to autozone and pipckup these parts. Its a pain
in the ass when you have to look for a NOS parts...
and when the NOS is only Available from 3 or 4 people,
not to mention... emails after emails and hoping that
someone will respond, and when you do get a respond
its 2 weeks later. By the time i get my parts it would
probably be 3 to 4 weeks later. This is why I like to
make this retro fit and make it more convenient for me
not to have to depend on someone's else to get these
parts.
Thanks, Bill and Merry X-Mas to All and whenever
playing with Gasoline and electricial spark like a
fuel pump keep a fire extrinquisher around.
Thanks again,
Vaughn
--- Bill Colford wrote:

> Actually Larry, when put on correctly it hangs
> (as you tell it) less than
> an 1/8th of an inch below the subframe when
> measured across the frame.
> And is directly between the wheels. A Skid plate
> used by many off road
> vehicles including ATV's. Where hoses were a
> problem, it was because the
> owner didn't change them out when it was needed. See
> the attached picture.
> Remember, this is not Bill trying to get a buck,
> I too am looking at
> keeping these small cars on the road. But in most
> cases the Honda filter is
> not being changed because people are finding it
> harder to come by. I have
> been told by owners that they couldn't get one that
> day so they are waiting
> until they can find one. 3 to 4 months later they
> are still looking and
> still driving their car.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf
> Of Larry
> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 8:48 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] New 600 onwer
> P.S.
> The plumbing for the oil cooler becomes one more
> thing hanging in the
> lowest point of your car, and is then one INSTANT
> means of destroying
> your engine, should something be laying in the road
> that you can't avoid
> or see!!!!! Break one of the hoses, and you will
> empty your oil in a
> matter of seconds, kissing your engine GOODBYE!!!!
> Happy motoring!!!
> I Love My N600
> BONE STOCK!!!

Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

[Harry Lineback]

ONCE AGAIN you have written a very good article on the
cooler.... i don't know why everyone doesn't have
one!!!
merry christmas
harry
--- Bill Colford wrote:

> Hi Vaughn;
> You can do this yourself, I have several filter
> caps and center
> bolts already modified I can provide along with
> detailed instructions to
> find the items you need and make it your self. The
> kit I have was put
> together by me, they are made up from a some what
> long list of
> manufacturers. The important thing is to keep the
> street "L" brass
> fittings, hoses and clamps as close to the engine as
> possible. Harry
> Lineback even added metal bands to protect the hoses
> from being hit. I
> drove my car without any protection for 8 years and
> never had a problem.
> Then there have been other owners that were not as
> mindful and hit curbs and
> parking lot stall stops causing the hose to be
> pulled off. As the attached
> picture shows they are really close to the engine
> and literally up away from
> everything.
> If your interested in more pictures and prices
> please e-mail me at
billmyong@...
. But don't get me wrong,
> this is not a cheap
> transition. The oil thermostat made by EMPI runs at
> just over $80.00 alone.
> The cooler with the VW remote filter and coils (when
> listed) runs in the
> $85.00 to $120.00 range. It would take a whole
> bunch of Honda filters to
> brake even if that is your only reason for
> installing a oil cooler. The
> real reason is that in the tests I have run (placing
> a modified oil drain
> plug on a Honda 600 and installing a temperature
> gauge) I monitored engine
> temperatures during many different driving
> conditions. This was on a motor
> that had over 50 K on the speedometer. normally
> doing 65 on the freeways,
> kept the Honda 600 running at about 165 degrees
> (where it should be), but
> once off the freeway and stopping at the first light
> (a few hundred feet
> from the off ramp) and temperatures would rise to
> 230 and above. And, then
> because traffic normally slowed to 25 or less the
> engine kept that 230 and
> in some instances went considerably higher. This
> was not just a quick few
> times down the freeway and into traffic, I used the
> car as a daily driver
> for almost a year, monitoring how it ran and if it
> got higher in the summer
> or if I started driving on ground streets and over
> the same distance did the
> temperature hit 230 or above in stop and go traffic
> as it did coming off the
> freeway. And it always did, although taking longer
> the air traveling across
> the engine and movement by the fan did not keep the
> oil at the 165 degree
> range.
> I then added the oil cooler and measured everything
> before starting
> the test again. I drove it giving it full throttle
> from many a corner, and
> then I pulled the engine every 10K miles and
> measured for wear. I won't say
> there were not some things that had to be replaced.
> After 45K miles into
> the test the cam chain had to be replaced as it had
> stretched almost 3/4in
> from new. I also had re-used old transmission and
> all it's bearings when
> first putting the engine together and I had a
> primary shaft bearing showing
> some wear (they will start a side movement) which
> was replaced as well as
> the transmission bearing keepers. But the most
> significant change in the
> engine was that there was no tar (blackening from
> over heated oil) inside
> the engine. I opened the oil filters after each oil
> change to see if there
> were any metal chips or other foreign particles. I
> didn't find anything,
> and I was using a 20W50 oil manufactured for motor
> cycles using the same oil
> for both engine and transmission as the Honda 600
> does. In fact, several
> times I changed the filter every 3K miles and the
> oil at 6 to 7 months.
> The test ran for almost 50K miles and 4 engine pulls
> and measuring key
> points,
> 1 - piston wear causing piston slap
> 2 - piston ring wear
> 3 - piston cylinder wear
> 4 - oil pump wear
> 5 - transmission lash and bearings
> 6 - crank shaft end bearings and bearing cages
> 7 - cam end cap housings and cam.
> 8 - it the torque was maintained on the head studs
> and bolts
> 9 - rocker arms and shafts
> just to name a few.
> The test stopped when I sold the car in 1997. Will
> it add additional miles
> to your Honda 600, I think so, and when I put a oil
> cooler on the engine I
> first only had the oil temp gauge on, it ran much
> better. And, many of the
> cars using an oil cooler are still on the road.
> But if the metal is not there to begin with,
> nothing will keep it
> wearing more and eventually break. Too much Heat
> causes wear, more oil and
> keeping it at its optimal running temp along with
> better filters can only
> help. Did Honda have a poor design with the filter
> they used, I don't think
> so. However they didn't think people would still be
> driving them 30 years
> later either.
> Bill
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf
> Of
howardsugarman@...
> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 8:17 AM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] New 600 owner
> Hi Bill, So... how much will this oil cooler
> retrofit
> cost? it definite sound good. I am interested in
> getting one, so... I don't have to pay for these
> expensive NOS filter when went ever i want to change
> the oil, i can walk into Autozone and pickup the
> filter and oil and im done under 10 bucks. :) I just
> recently got the car and havent even took the oil
> filter out as of yet. From looking at the manual, it
> looks like just a paper filter from like an ATV or
> something like that. I am definitely interested in
> the
> COOLER AND OIL Retrofit kit.
> Thanks
> Vaughn
> --- Bill Colford wrote:
> > Shoki;
> > Being around aircraft like you are you know the
> > value of a cool clean
> > running engine. I have a oil cooler that moves
> your
> > oil filter to a remote
> > filter next to the battery tray and with a PH8A
> > filter adds a bit more than
> > a quart of oil to your system. It also includes a
> > oil thermostat to allow
> > quick warm up's and then continued temperature
> > monitoring. Also you can add
> > an oil pressure and temp gauges giving you
> > additional information. Send
> > your e-mail address and I will send you pictures
> of
> > a recent installation in
> > a sedan that also put in Mike O'Connor's 40 over
> > pistons.
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On
> Behalf

=== message truncated ===
Harry Lineback
XXX-XXX-XXXX

[Ryan Haggard]

Hi Bill,
I love any mods that will make my coupe last longer with less wear.......
so what do I have to do to get the pic's and details of what I need for this mod?
my motor will be rebuilt soon and I would like to have this in place when I put the motor back in.....
any other mods to the car if you know any will help me as well..
thanx for the detail
Ryan Harry Lineback wrote:

> ONCE AGAIN you have written a very good article on the
> cooler.... i don't know why everyone doesn't have
> one!!!
> merry christmas
> harry
> --- Bill Colford wrote:
> > Hi Vaughn;
> >       You can do this yourself, I have several filter
> > caps and
> center
> > bolts already modified I can provide along with
> > detailed instructions to
> > find the items you need and make it your self.  The
> > kit I have was put
> > together by me, they are made up from a some what
> > long list of
> > manufacturers.  The important thing is to keep the
> > street "L" brass
> > fittings, hoses and clamps as close to the engine as
> > possible.  Harry
> > Lineback even added metal bands to protect the hoses
> > from being hit.  I
> > drove my car without any protection for 8 years and
> > never had a problem.
> > Then there have been other owners that were not as
> > mindful and hit curbs and
> > parking lot stall stops causing the hose to be
> > pulled off.   As the attached
> > picture shows they are really close to the engine
> > and literally up away from
> > everything.
>       If your interested in more pictures and prices
> > please e-mail me at
> > billmyong@....   But don't get me wrong,
> > this is not a cheap
> > transition.  The oil thermostat made by EMPI runs at
> > just over $80.00 alone.
> > The cooler with the VW remote filter and coils (when
> > listed) runs in the
> > $85.00 to $120.00 range.   It would take a whole
> > bunch of Honda filters to
> > brake even if that is your only reason for
> > installing a oil cooler.  The
> > real reason is that in the tests I have run (placing
> > a modified oil drain
> > plug on a Honda 600 and installing a temperature
> > gauge) I monitored engine
> > temperatures during many different driving
> > conditions.  This was on a motor
> > that had over 50 K on the speedometer. normally
> > doing 65 on the freeways,
> > kept the Honda 600 running at about
> 165 degrees
> > (where it should be), but
> > once off the freeway and stopping at the first light
> > (a few hundred feet
> > from the off ramp) and temperatures would rise to
> > 230 and above.   And, then
> > because traffic normally slowed to 25 or less the
> > engine kept that 230 and
> > in some instances went considerably higher.  This
> > was not just a quick few
> > times down the freeway and into traffic, I used the
> > car as a daily driver
> > for almost a year, monitoring how it ran and if it
> > got higher in the summer
> > or if I started driving on ground streets and over
> > the same distance did the
> > temperature hit 230 or above in stop and go traffic
> > as it did coming off the
> > freeway.  And it always did, although taking longer
> > the air traveling across
> > the engine and movement by the fan did not keep the
> > oil at the 165 degree
> > range.
> >       I then added the oil cooler and measured everything > > before starting > > the test again.   I drove it giving it full throttle > > from many a corner, and > > then I pulled the engine every 10K miles and > > measured for wear.  I won't say > > there were not some things that had to be replaced.
> > After 45K miles into
> > the test the cam chain had to be replaced as it had
> > stretched almost 3/4in
> > from new.  I also had re-used old transmission and
> > all it's bearings when
> > first putting the engine together and I had a
> > primary shaft bearing showing
> > some wear (they will start a side movement) which
> > was replaced as well as
> > the transmission bearing keepers.  But the most
> > significant change in the
> > engine was that there was no tar (blackening from
> > over heated oil) inside
> > the engine.  I opened
> the oil filters after each oil
> > change to see if there
> > were any metal chips or other foreign particles.  I
> > didn't find anything,
> > and I was using a 20W50 oil manufactured for motor
> > cycles using the same oil
> > for both engine and transmission as the Honda 600
> > does.  In fact, several
> > times I changed the filter every 3K  miles and the
> > oil at 6 to 7 months.
> > The test ran for almost 50K miles and 4 engine pulls
> > and measuring key
> > points,
> >       1 -  piston wear causing piston slap
> >       2 -  piston ring wear
> >       3 -  piston cylinder wear
> >       4 -  oil pump wear
> >       5 -  transmission lash and bearings
> >       6 -  crank shaft end bearings and bearing
> cages
> >       7 -  cam end cap housings and cam.
> >       8 -  it the torque was maintained on the head studs > > and bolts > >       9 -  rocker arms and shafts > > just to name a few.
> > The test stopped when I sold the car in 1997.  Will
> > it add additional miles
> > to your Honda 600, I think so, and when I put a oil
> > cooler on the engine I
> > first only had the oil temp gauge on, it ran much
> > better.  And, many of the
> > cars using an oil cooler are still on the road.
> >       But if the metal is not there to begin with,
> > nothing will keep it
> > wearing more and eventually break.  Too much Heat
> > causes wear, more oil and
> > keeping it at its optimal running temp along with
> > better filters can only
> > help.  Did
> Honda have a poor design with the filter
> > they used, I don't think
> > so.  However they didn't think people would still be
> > driving them 30 years
> > later either.
> > Bill
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
> > Of
> > howardsugarman@...
> > Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 8:17 AM
> > To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] New 600 owner
> > Hi Bill, So... how much will this oil cooler
> > retrofit
> > cost? it definite sound good. I am interested in
> > getting one, so... I don't have to pay for these
> > expensive NOS filter when went ever i want to change
> > the oil, i
> can walk into Autozone and pickup the
> > filter and oil and im done under 10 bucks. :) I just
> > recently got the car and havent even took the oil
> > filter out as of yet. From looking at the manual, it
> > looks like just a paper filter from like an ATV or
> > something like that. I am definitely interested in
> > the
> > COOLER AND OIL Retrofit kit.
> > Thanks
> > Vaughn
> > --- Bill Colford wrote:
> > > Shoki;
> > >       Being around aircraft like you are you know the
> > > value of a cool clean
> > > running engine. I have a oil cooler that moves
> > your
> > > oil filter to a remote
> > > filter next to the battery tray and with a PH8A
> > > filter adds a bit more than
> > > a quart of oil to your system.  It also includes a
> > > oil thermostat to allow
> > > quick warm
> up's and then continued temperature
> > > monitoring.  Also you can add
> > > an oil pressure and temp gauges giving you
> > > additional information.  Send
> > > your e-mail address and I will send you pictures
> > of
> > > a recent installation in
> > > a sedan that also put in Mike O'Connor's 40 over
> > > pistons.
> > > Bill
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]On
> > Behalf
> === message truncated ===
> Harry Lineback
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
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[Shoki Haraguchi]

Hi,
Yes, I would love to know things which my sedan's
life longer!!
FlyingJap
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