stuck piston, any ideas?

[brad fenn]

I believe you are going about it the right way. But do want to ask if you know for sure why the engine is locked up?  If it is the piston stuck you will find that you wont be able to get the cylinder set off, and you will have to pound on the pistons to knock them loose. Which you will have to do or you wont be able to dismantle any further.  But if it's a locked rod or crank, the cylinder set will come right off,and you will be able to continue dismantling.  Good luck.  Brad From:
tgm_enterprizes To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Thu, October 14, 2010 10:31:58 PM Subject:
[anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
Well, it's been about a week of letting the PB blaster soak and I have struck out. I think my driver side piston is stuck. We tried towing the car and popping the clutch, a breaker bar on the crank pully (not excessively as I am sure I could break something).
So, I am starting to dismantle the upper end.
Who has new gaskets? Or would reusing the head gasket after spraying it with coppercoat work? I am able to make the other gaskets out of gasket material or can use silicone seal or permatex aviation gastet sealer.
Heres the plan next. After the head gets off, try using a 2x4 and gently hit the top of the piston till it loosens up or if worse comes to worse, breaks.
any thoughts?
Richard

[tgm_enterprizes]

This is an excellent idea. I will put together the hydraulic sparkplug tomorrow. All i will have to do is make sure the valves are closed.
Absolutely genious!
I will post results of this tomorrow
Richard

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, T W S wrote:
> i tried something with an  continental airplane engine i couldnt get unstuck.
> the head would have to be bolted back on and the valves closed to do this on the
> Honda. i took a spark plug and broke off the porcelin and hollowed out the
> bottom and welded on a fitting which had a grease zerk on it. then i attached
> the grease gun and squeezed grease into the into the spark plug hole down into
> the cylinder with both valves closed. Anyways, it took a lot of grease, but i
> hydraulicked the piston down. When the grease displaces the air, the piston has
> no place to go except down
> From: tgm_enterprizes
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 10:31:58 PM
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
> Well, it's been about a week of letting the PB blaster soak and I have struck
> out. I think my driver side piston is stuck. We tried towing the car and popping
> the clutch, a breaker bar on the crank pully (not excessively as I am sure I
> could break something).
> So, I am starting to dismantle the upper end.
> Who has new gaskets? Or would reusing the head gasket after spraying it with
> coppercoat work? I am able to make the other gaskets out of gasket material or
> can use silicone seal or permatex aviation gastet sealer.
> Heres the plan next. After the head gets off, try using a 2x4 and gently hit the
> top of the piston till it loosens up or if worse comes to worse, breaks.
> any thoughts?
> Richard

[zinc2u]

Hi Richard,
   It sounds like you may have the steel rings bonded to the steel cylinder sleeve via a rust connection (i.e. iron oxide).  Citric Acid (which is a major component of orange juice, lemon juice, and lime juice) does an excellent job of dissolving rust.  Your cylinder is going to need a hone or rebore and the rings are wasted on this engine.
good luck,
Dale

> Well,
> it's been about a week of letting the PB blaster soak and I have struck out. I > think my driver side piston is stuck. We tried towing the car and popping the > clutch, a breaker bar on the crank pully (not excessively as I am sure I could > break something).
> So, I am starting to dismantle the upper end.
> Who has new gaskets? Or would reusing the head gasket after spraying > it with coppercoat work? I am able to make the other gaskets out of gasket > material or can use silicone seal or permatex aviation gastet > sealer.
> Heres the plan next. After the head gets off, try using a 2x4 > and gently hit the top of the piston till it loosens up or if worse comes to > worse, breaks.
> any thoughts?
> Richard

[lyletrudell]

Hi Richard, I would pull the cylinders and see what is wrong.
That way you can look at the chain tensioners and guides also.
These motorcycle engines are designed to run 75K miles.
If you plan on keeping the car I would pull the engine/transaxle and do it right. They are pretty simple and light weight so its a one man job. Parts are hard to find....
If you have a problem the folks on this site are real helpful.
Bill C. has gaskets.
Good luck.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> It sounds like you may have the steel rings bonded to the steel
> cylinder sleeve via a rust connection (i.e. iron oxide). Citric Acid (which is a
> major component of orange juice, lemon juice, and lime juice) does an
> excellent job of dissolving rust. Your cylinder is going to need a hone or
> rebore and the rings are wasted on this engine.
> good luck,
> Dale
> Well, it's been about a week of letting the PB blaster soak and I have
> struck out. I think my driver side piston is stuck. We tried towing the car
> and popping the clutch, a breaker bar on the crank pully (not excessively as
> I am sure I could break something).
> So, I am starting to dismantle the upper end.
> Who has new gaskets? Or would reusing the head gasket after spraying it
> with coppercoat work? I am able to make the other gaskets out of gasket
> material or can use silicone seal or permatex aviation gastet sealer.
> Heres the plan next. After the head gets off, try using a 2x4 and gently
> hit the top of the piston till it loosens up or if worse comes to worse,
> breaks.
> any thoughts?
> Richard

[T W S]

I have to say i dont have ANY experience with digging into these engines. Someone else posted that Your engine could be siezed in the crank area. if thats the case, when You hydroulic the piston down it will most likely break the connecting rod. If i was doing it, id go into it with the attitude that Your definitely going to have to rebuild it but still You want to inflict the minimum damage possible. so if theres any inkling that the crank turns at all-even a 16th of an inch, id say stuck ring.  Also, if You have any way to get in the area below the ring between the piston skirt and cylinder wall id try to get some lubrication in there. As it comes down, it could score the wall deeper making it have to be bored out farther. If the engine is still in the car, of course make sure its in neutral so theres no other source of resistance. Like i said, i have NO experience with this engine.
From:
tgm_enterprizes To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Fri, October 15, 2010 12:32:25 AM Subject:
[anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
This is an excellent idea. I will put together the hydraulic sparkplug tomorrow. All i will have to do is make sure the valves are closed.
Absolutely genious!
I will post results of this tomorrow Richard

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, T W S wrote:
> i tried something with an�  continental airplane engine i couldnt get unstuck.
> the head would have to be bolted back on and the valves closed to do this on the > Honda. i took a spark plug and broke off the porcelin and hollowed out the > bottom and welded on a fitting which had a grease zerk on it. then i attached > the grease gun and squeezed grease into the into the spark plug hole down into > the cylinder with both valves closed. Anyways, it took a lot of grease, but i > hydraulicked the piston down. When the grease displaces the air, the piston has > no place to go except down�
> From: tgm_enterprizes
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 10:31:58 PM
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
> �
> Well, it's been about a week of letting the PB blaster soak and I have struck > out. I think my driver side piston is stuck. We tried towing the car and popping > the clutch, a breaker bar on the crank pully (not excessively as I am sure I > could break something).
> So, I am starting to dismantle
the upper end.
> Who has new gaskets? Or would reusing the head gasket after spraying it with > coppercoat work? I am able to make the other gaskets out of gasket material or > can use silicone seal or permatex aviation gastet sealer.
> Heres the plan next. After the head gets off, try using a 2x4 and gently hit the > top of the piston till it loosens up or if worse comes to worse, breaks.
> any thoughts?
> Richard

[tgm_enterprizes]

It's been a good day. I made my grease zerk fitting on sparkplug adapter and was able to unstick the piston. It will be just a matter of days now before I can fire it up and see if rings are still good or if I need to pull the engine apart.
Hope everyone here has a good weekend. And thanks again for the multitude of good ideas.
Richard
p.s. if anyone needs to use this adapter, I am willing to loan it out. Just shoot me a mail or a message or call me.
XXX-XXX-XXXX
richard.morris@...

[blake neilson]

NEVER ever reuse head gaskets.  There is only one exception that I know of and that is with a solid copper gasket and even then you need to anneal the gasket prior to reusing.
Blake

--- On
Thu, 10/14/10, tgm_enterprizes

wrote:
> From: tgm_enterprizes
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 14, 2010, 8:31 PM
> Well, it's been about a week of letting the PB blaster soak and I have struck out. I think my driver side piston is stuck. We tried towing the car and popping the clutch, a breaker bar on the crank pully (not excessively as I am sure I could break something).
> So, I am starting to dismantle the upper end.
> Who has new gaskets? Or would reusing the head gasket after spraying it with coppercoat work? I am able to make the other gaskets out of gasket material or can use silicone seal or permatex aviation gastet sealer.
> Heres the plan next. After the head gets off, try using a 2x4 and gently hit the top of the piston till it loosens up or if worse comes to worse, breaks.
> any thoughts?
> Richard

[blake neilson]

Locked rod or main bearings are a near impossibility with rolling element bearings.  They just disintegrate and start to hammer.  I have never heard of a main bearing failure, it's always the rods that go in my experience.
blake

--- On
Fri, 10/15/10, T W S

wrote:
> From: T W S
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 15, 2010, 9:05 AM
> I have to say i dont have ANY experience with digging into these engines. Someone else posted that Your engine could be siezed in the crank area. if thats the case, when You hydroulic the piston down it will most likely break the connecting rod. If i was doing it, id go into it with the attitude that Your definitely going to have to rebuild it but still You want to inflict the minimum damage possible. so if theres any inkling that the crank turns at all-even a 16th of an inch, id say stuck ring.  Also, if You have any way to get in the area below the ring between the piston skirt and cylinder wall id try to get some lubrication in there. As it comes down, it could score the wall deeper making it have to be bored out farther. If the engine is still in the car, of course make > sure its in neutral so theres no other source of resistance. Like i said, i have NO experience with this engine.
> From:
> tgm_enterprizes
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Fri, October 15, 2010 12:32:25 AM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
> This is an excellent idea. I will put together the hydraulic sparkplug tomorrow. All i will have to do is make sure the valves are closed.
> Absolutely genious!
> I will post results of this tomorrow
> Richard
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , T W S wrote:
> > i tried something with an�  continental airplane engine i couldnt get unstuck.
> > the head would have to be bolted back on and the valves closed to do this on the > > Honda. i took a spark plug and broke off the porcelin and hollowed out the > > bottom and welded on a fitting which had a grease zerk on it. then i attached > > the grease gun and squeezed grease into the into the spark plug hole down into > > the cylinder with both valves closed. Anyways, it > took a lot of > grease, but i > > hydraulicked the piston down. When the grease displaces the air, the piston has > > no place to go except down�
> > From: tgm_enterprizes
> > To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 10:31:58 PM
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
> > �
> > Well, it's been about a week of letting the PB blaster soak and I have struck > > out. I think my driver side piston is stuck. We tried towing the car and popping > > the clutch, a breaker bar on the crank pully (not excessively as I am sure I > > could break something).
> > So, I am starting
> to dismantle
> the upper end.
> > Who has new gaskets? Or would reusing the head gasket after spraying it with > > coppercoat work? I am able to make the other gaskets out of gasket material or > > can use silicone seal or permatex aviation gastet sealer.
> > Heres the plan next. After the head gets off, try using a 2x4 and gently hit the > > top of the piston till it loosens up or if worse comes to worse, breaks.
> > any thoughts?
> > Richard

[brad fenn]

Wow,  I am glad to hear that worked and that it was a stuck piston. I will have to add that to the list of repair tricks.    About 10 years ago I bought a 600 Coupe that had been sitting in a field since 1973. Still had 73 License plates on it. When it was delivered to my shop,I checked to see if it had oil in it,and it did,but looked milky,and was able to turn engine. So I cleaned carb and hooked a hose to it from a container of gas for (gravity flow ) fuel. Hooked a jumper box to it and got it to start. Once it fired a few times,I decided to change oil before I ran it any. When I pulled the drain plug,about a gallon of water came out before any oil. (not good, obviously it had gotten under water) But filled it with fresh oil,and got it runnung. The engine did have a moderate rod noise.
But anyway, after some work, I was driving it. I made it about a year of driving it everyday before that rod noise got any worse, About 10K miles.And when it did it did it all at once. When I tore it down the needle bearings were gone from one rod,and noticed a lot of rust pitting on the crank main surfaces,which I suspected was wrong with it. But I did get a year out of it.  Sometimes these old cars will amaze you.   Brad    Classic Auto Service Dallas From:
tgm_enterprizes To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Fri, October 15, 2010 6:15:46 PM Subject:
[anzhonda600owners] Re: stuck piston, any ideas?
It's been a good day. I made my grease zerk fitting on sparkplug adapter and was able to unstick the piston. It will be just a matter of days now before I can fire it up and see if rings are still good or if I need to pull the engine apart.
Hope everyone here has a good weekend. And thanks again for the multitude of good ideas.
Richard
p.s. if anyone needs to use this adapter, I am willing to loan it out. Just shoot me a mail or a message or call me.
XXX-XXX-XXXX
richard.morris@...

[zinc2u]

Hi Richard,
     If it were my engine,   I would not start it.  The engine does need to be torn down to determine the cause of the stuck piston and remedy the situation.  You could do further damage by starting the engine.
good luck,
Dale

> It's
> been a good day. I made my grease zerk fitting on sparkplug adapter and was > able to unstick the piston. It will be just a matter of days now before I can > fire it up and see if rings are still good or if I need to pull the engine > apart.
> Hope everyone here has a good weekend. And thanks again for the > multitude of good ideas.
> Richard
> p.s. if anyone needs to use
> this adapter, I am willing to loan it out. Just shoot me a mail or a message > or call me.
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> richard.morris@...