Car won't turn over-How to bench test starter?

[turbotwo]

Now my car won't turn over. I hear a click noise as i turn the key but
not quite sure if its coming from the starter since I'm sitting in the
drivers seat. The car was starting and running just yesterday. havne't
changed anything since. I even charged the battery and tried to start
with the charger in "boost" mode. I suspect the starter or faulty
electrical connections. The starter has probably been replaced before.
It has markings on it in yellow, you know the same yellow paint color
that salvage yards use to mark their parts.
After looking around i found the terminals on the starter quite rusty.
I'm thinking of pulling it and cleaning it but what is a good method
of testing the starter off the car?
Also, I found a wire disconnected. It is located on the passenger side
below the coil and leads into the engine case. Are these wires for
the generator? I have a service manual with full wiring diagram but
can't quite identify the wires. There are 3 or 4 of them, mostly
white and one that is white with black stripe. Also the connector
that is on the harness side of the voltage regulator looks pretty beat
up. It has some bare wire showing that is corroded green. Ugghh,
electrical problems are such a pain. Its always hard to know where to
start.

[dealadayray]

Oh No, Not the ugly green crud stuff... If it was running yesterday I would
check the battery cables. The wires to the connectors may be corroded in
side and causing a bad connection. And, if you push it in second will it
start?
Bill

[turbotwo]

Yes that ugly green stuff, its everywhere its not supposed to be,
haha. I haven't tried bump starting it in 2nd but i'll try that
today. I was thinking of trying to source out certain plastic
electrical connectors and then re-crimping those terminals. Or what
about trying to clean it by pouring Coke on it or something?
I also suspect my ignition cylinder isn't doing so well. The spring
inside must be broken because the key deosn't return to the ON
position after the engine starts (when it was running). I tried to
jiggle the key when starting but that doesn't work. How can i test
this? I figure put a test light on a circuit that gets energized when
the key is turned to the START position but which wire?

[bobs600honda]

Have I got a couple of ideas for EWE!  The very simplest thing to do first is to check the battery fluid ( distilled water ) Even on lifetime guaranteed batteries, the water will slowly disipate and leave you without a 'start'.  Also, the connections to the battery and the corresponding connection to the starter can be cleaned with a glass of water containing just as much baking soda as you can suspend in solution. Just pour in slowly on and watch that GREEN crud foam to blue and then nothing as you rinse it off. Best of luck, Mates!
wrote:

> Yes that ugly green stuff, its everywhere its not supposed to be, > haha.  I haven't tried bump starting it in 2nd but i'll try that > today.  I was thinking of trying to source out certain plastic > electrical connectors and then re-crimping those terminals.  Or what > about trying to clean it by pouring Coke on it or something?
> I also suspect my ignition cylinder isn't doing so well.  The spring > inside must be broken because the key deosn't return to the ON > position after the engine starts (when it was running).  I tried to > jiggle the key when starting but that doesn't work.  How can i test > this?  I figure put a test light on a circuit that gets energized when > the key is turned to the START position but which wire?
> --- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "william colford"
>
> wrote:
> > Oh No, Not the ugly green crud stuff...  If it was running yesterday > I would > > check the battery cables.  The wires to the connectors may be > corroded in > > side and causing a bad connection. And, if you push it in second will it > > start?
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:39 PM
> > To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Car won't turn over-How to bench test > > starter?
> > Now my car won't turn over. I hear a click noise as i turn the key but > > not quite sure if its coming from the starter since I'm sitting in the > > drivers seat. The car was starting and running just yesterday. havne't > > changed anything since. I even charged the battery and tried to start > > with the charger in "boost" mode. I suspect the starter or faulty
> electrical connections. The starter has probably been replaced before.
> > It has markings on it in yellow, you know the same yellow paint color > > that salvage yards use to mark their parts.
> > After looking around i found the terminals on the starter quite rusty.
> > I'm thinking of pulling it and cleaning it but what is a good method > > of testing the starter off the car?
> > Also, I found a wire disconnected. It is located on the passenger side > > below the coil and leads into the engine case.  Are these wires for > > the generator? I have a service manual with full wiring diagram but > > can't quite identify the wires.  There are 3 or 4 of them, mostly > > white and one that is white with black stripe.  Also the connector > > that is on the harness side of the voltage regulator looks pretty beat > > up. It has some bare wire showing that is corroded green.  Ugghh, > > electrical > problems are such a pain. Its always hard to know where to > > start.

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[dustyspath]

600-friend:
Let me get this straight--- your _key_ stopped working normal, so the car won't start and you suspect the starter but when you look at the wires associated, they are green.
Here's what to do:
#1 Replace key with push-button switch from RS and toggle switch, too: use the toggle to turn on the ignition, and the push-button to start with. The push button should be heavy current- capable to energize the solenoid that shunts the big amperage, and the toggle should be enough to match the ignition.
#2 Empty a can OR TWO!! of WD-40 everywhere you see green, use LOTS.
#3 Consider the holy triangle of Battery-Starter-Generator. (Triangles are an invention used by the RailRoad engineers in very classic, beautiful designs: think about the spare tire, jack, and lug wrench triangle; if you are short any one of these three, the other two are useless((No, that was not a RR design)))
#4 Be straight with yourself. What was the problem in the first place? Ignition switch? Corrosion(This still gets the big three, and often)? And how to prevent it next time- drive your beautiful car more often! It makes every other driver on the road so-o-o jealous to see a wonder car such as what we drive. And corrosion gets detroit autos too even if they drive often.
Finally, the world thanks you for your decision to drive a beautiful car like the 600. Too many ugly cars cause corrosion and disgust. The engineers sit at lunch and think about how to make their cars harder to fix-has anyone on our list changed spark plugs on a Ford Aerostar  WITHOUT pulling the engine? That's what I've heard. My car is a Sundance now, a Michigan Chrysler based on a French design. I used to drive a good car, the 600, long ago.
Curse Detroit. Love, Marshall wrote:

> Yes that ugly green stuff, its everywhere its not supposed to be, > haha.  I haven't tried bump starting it in 2nd but i'll try that > today.  I was thinking of trying to source out certain plastic > electrical connectors and then re-crimping those terminals.  Or what > about trying to clean it by pouring Coke on it or something?
> I also suspect my ignition cylinder isn't doing so well.  The spring > inside must be broken because the key deosn't return to the ON > position after the engine starts (when it was running).  I tried to > jiggle the key when starting but that doesn't work.  How can i test > this?  I figure put a test light on a circuit that gets energized when > the key is turned to the START position but which wire?
> --- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "william colford"
>
> wrote:
> > Oh No, Not the ugly green crud stuff...  If it was running yesterday > I would > > check the battery cables.  The wires to the connectors may be > corroded in > > side and causing a bad connection. And, if you push it in second will it > > start?
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:39 PM
> > To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Car won't turn over-How to bench test > > starter?
> > Now my car won't turn over. I hear a click noise as i turn the key but > > not quite sure if its coming from the starter since I'm sitting in the > > drivers seat. The car was starting and running just yesterday. havne't > > changed anything since. I even charged the battery and tried to start > > with the charger in "boost" mode. I suspect the starter or faulty
> electrical connections. The starter has probably been replaced before.
> > It has markings on it in yellow, you know the same yellow paint color > > that salvage yards use to mark their parts.
> > After looking around i found the terminals on the starter quite rusty.
> > I'm thinking of pulling it and cleaning it but what is a good method > > of testing the starter off the car?
> > Also, I found a wire disconnected. It is located on the passenger side > > below the coil and leads into the engine case.  Are these wires for > > the generator? I have a service manual with full wiring diagram but > > can't quite identify the wires.  There are 3 or 4 of them, mostly > > white and one that is white with black stripe.  Also the connector > > that is on the harness side of the voltage regulator looks pretty beat > > up. It has some bare wire showing that is corroded green.  Ugghh, > > electrical > problems are such a pain. Its always hard to know where to > > start.

[mterrens]

Without getting to the specifics of your issue, I can only say that
generally, corrosion at electrical contacts is one of the biggest culprits
of all sorts of under-the-hood grief. Have a look around, check the
condition of cables and connections everywhere; even a little crud is enough
to create havoc. A good ground to the battery is important - if the spot
where the battery is grounded is painted, scrub off a tiny spot so that the
cable connects bare metal.
I got pulled over one night. The cop told me my tail lights were out and
presented me with a $40 ticket.
After some inspection, it turned out that all I needed to do was clean the
contact at the fuse with a bit of fine sandpaper. Everything else was good.
Even the actual fuse was fine.
Needless to say I cleaned ALL the fuse contacts that day.
Steve

[turbotwo]

Marshall,
I can tell you are a wise man, much like myself (just not in honda 600's).
#1 Yeah thats a good idea. I may do that to make things more simple.
#2 I've sprayed a few connections, never thought of using WD40.
#3 As far as this battery-starter-generator love triangle i know the
battery is good. Not sure about the generator. At least my charge
light doesn't come on when it was running.
#4 Fortunately i am a very straight man and I have a few ideas what
it may be, just need to narrow it down. I want to try bump starting
it and cleaning the starter terminals. But i just don't have too much
time to work on it :(
#5 Another post mentioned cleaning the fuses. I'll try that too.
Thanks for all the tips!
I really want to get this tihng in good running condition so i can
drive it in this great oregon summer weather we're getting. I have a
few cars including a speed yellow porsche 911 but I have a feeling
when i start cruising the 600 I'm gonna get even more girls. At least
the girls won't think i'm overcompensating for something, hahaha.

[dustyspath]

A DOZEN REASONS:
    OOops a lot of static got on the line probably by my own fault--- Let me make amends by admitting that too frequently one problem has a dozen possible reasons or causes which are all present when one tries to return to launch-normal status, always making me feel like an idiot that I didn't know the SQR(13) by heart. I hope I didn't make you feel as I too frequently feel.
#1 replacing the key with switches is just a thought to eliminate possible key failures
For trouble-shooting I had a brake light bulb(OK to use Detroit) with two wires soldered to it with alligator clips on the end: this works with only the one alligator clipwire soldered to the tip of the base of the brake light... Clip to your points and ground the bulb by holding it to the block so that the points will light up if open, or you can clip to positive battery and the points will light up the light when they close so you can time the car with the ignition only by turning the engine by wrench to the Fire position then setting the points to almost close/open. This is called "Static Timing" because the engine is not "Dynamic", meaning I live close to Hillsboro.
This same timing light can be used to detect power on any wire. Hope this idea helps.
HONDA had good connectors, but everything gets old and corroded. DO spray, but unplug-plug-unplug-plug the suspected connections whilst spraying and leave them plugged back together. FYI- WD40 is conductive, so dont spray it on the distributor of a newer car.
TAKE SPECIAL CARE WHILST bump-starting, maybe use third instead of second for gentler starting. Another good idea is to make a wire with alligators on both ends instead of using switches to replace the key. I don't know much about starters, unfortunately, because when mine went out I drove it without one while going to college for about a year until I got a new car many years ago. All of this talk about 600s has gotten me hungry to upgrade to a smaller car. Sorry if I talk too much.
Marshall
Marshall Montchalin

> Finally, the world thanks you for your decision to drive a beautiful car like the 600.
> Curse Detroit.
> Love, Marshall
>
> wrote:
> > Yes that ugly green stuff, its everywhere its not supposed to be, > > haha.  I haven't tried bump starting it in 2nd but i'll try that > > today.  I was thinking of trying to source out certain plastic > > electrical connectors and then re-crimping those terminals.  Or what > > about trying to clean it by pouring Coke on it or something?
> > I also suspect my ignition cylinder isn't doing so well.  The spring > > inside must be broken because the key deosn't return to the ON > > position after the engine starts (when it was running).  I tried to > > jiggle the key when starting but that doesn't work.  How can i test > > this?  I figure put a test light on a circuit that gets energized when > > the key is turned to the START position but which wire?
> > [snip]

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[dealadayray]

Hi Marshall;
The simple fix is to locate a new switch for the back side of the ignition key assembly.  It is the same for either Sedan or Coupe.  Often they either ground out or the return spring jams or brakes causing the starter to stay engaged.
About once a season I need to clean all the exterior bulb carriers, and often the battery terminals come  lose or the connections become corroded enough to insulate the contact. Normally its an easy cleaning.  But to start adding this or that toggle switch often leads to more problems.
    Unwrap your wire harness in the engine compt and make sure nothing is melted.  If it is, replace it by cutting out the wire and soldering in a new wire in its place.
Bill

[turbotwo]

What do you mean the "back side of the ignition key assembly"?
I also notice a few electrical terminals that are not connected to
anything. Notably one below the coil that looks like it should be
connected so i plugged the two wires together, its bundled with
several other white wires. Does anyone have a quick list of
what/where are the unused connectors?
Marshall-Are you telling me you bump started your 600 for a whole year
during college? Wow, i thought i did some strange things during
college days.