dual output coil from summit

infinkc · Post by **infinkc** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:35 am

summit racing has a dual output coil, has anyone had experience with
one of these replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock coil
with my EFI setup. Also im looking for an electronic points/condenser,
i saw the one Jpro has on evil tweety. any others out there? Jpro can
i get your contact info, i have a few questions about your setup.
I found a diagram to use the stock points to trigger a external
electronic ignition i might give that a try as a cheap easy alternative.

zinc2u · Post by **zinc2u** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:17 pm

Are you converting to EFI because you realize the advantages of EFI over carburetors? If so, then you should consider upgrading the ignition system since these have improved over the years and the current systems are far superior to the ignition system found on the Honda 600. Take a look at Jacobs Electronics at http://www.jacobselectronics.com/ .
Ask their applications group for their recommendations and they will tell you what they have to offer to upgrade the ignition.
I hope your project goes smoothly and is successful,
Dale

> summit
> racing has a dual output coil, has anyone had experience with > one of these > replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock coil > with my EFI > setup. Also im looking for an electronic > points/condenser,

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zayjspeed · Post by **zayjspeed** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:15 pm

--- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "infinkc" wrote:

> summit racing has a dual output coil, has anyone had experience with
> one of these replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock coil
> with my EFI setup. Also im looking for an electronic points/condenser,
> i saw the one Jpro has on evil tweety. any others out there? Jpro can
> i get your contact info, i have a few questions about your setup.
> I found a diagram to use the stock points to trigger a external
> electronic ignition i might give that a try as a cheap easy alternative.

Hi My name Zay Speed I have been a professional motorcycle mechanic
for over 30 years and worked on lots of "600's" "Accel"
http://www.accel-motorcycle.com/PressRe ... ?BrandID=9
offers a coil in there motorcycle line that works very well for a
point system. I use their coil replacements on all motorcycles that I
repair with secondary coil loss, they are way better than stock and
much cheaper. Keep in mind that the 600 motor is a "1968 Honda CB 450
motorcycle" with a weird trany stuck on it. As far as a pointless
system not sure, cars like vacuum advance, not common on bikes you
could use a "side by side twin" motorcycle after market "Inductive"
or "CDI" but you would lose the vacuum advance. Coil's are sensitive
to ignition type / points / CDI / inductive/ ect. For the performance
out put of this thing the point system works good and is quite cheap!
you just gota adjust you're valves / change oil & filter / clean & gap
points / check timing every 2,500 miles its part of the cars design
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Zay

infinkc · Post by **infinkc** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:36 pm

thanks for the input, i think im going to use the ignition that the
megasquirt outputs for the coil to start off with since it can drive
a coil directly electonically. I just need to decide what route i
want to read the crank position from. I remember seeing a electronic
hall sensor on ebay before that replaced the stock points and
condensor, but cannot locate that anymore. think i might have to go
with an optical sensor to drive the EFI.
thanks,
kris

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Are you converting to EFI because you realize the advantages of EFI
over
> carburetors? If so, then you should consider upgrading the
ignition system
> since these have improved over the years and the current systems
are far
> superior to the ignition system found on the Honda 600. Take a
look at Jacobs
> Electronics at _
http://www.jacobselectronics.com/_
> (
http://www.jacobselectronics.com/)
. Ask their applications
group for their recommendations and they will
> tell you what they have to offer to upgrade the ignition.
> I hope your project goes smoothly and is successful,
> Dale
> summit racing has a dual output coil, has anyone had experience
with
> one of these replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock
coil
> with my EFI setup. Also im looking for an electronic
points/condenser,
> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
Money &
> Finance. (
http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

bottom cop · Post by **bottom cop** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:58 pm

I'm sure many of us would appreciate a detailed description of what, how and the cost of your conversion to EFI when you have successfully completed the entire process. This really sounds interesting. Best of luck.
infinkc wrote:

> thanks for the input, i think im going to use the ignition that the > megasquirt outputs for the coil to start off with since it can drive > a coil directly electonically. I just need to decide what route i > want to read the crank position from. I remember seeing a electronic > hall sensor on ebay before that replaced the stock points and > condensor, but cannot locate that anymore. think i might have to go > with an optical sensor to drive the EFI.
> thanks,
> kris
> --- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, goinhm@... wrote:
> > Are you converting to EFI
> because you realize the advantages of EFI
> over
> > carburetors? If so, then you should consider upgrading the > ignition system > > since these have improved over the years and the current systems > are far > > superior to the ignition system found on the Honda 600. Take a > look at Jacobs > > Electronics at _http://www.jacobselectronics.com/_ > > (http://www.jacobselectronics.com/) . Ask their applications > group for their recommendations and they will > > tell you what they have to offer to upgrade the ignition.
> > I hope your project goes smoothly and is successful,
> > Dale
> > summit racing has a dual output coil, has anyone had experience > with > > one of these replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock > coil > > with my EFI setup. Also im looking for an electronic > points/condenser,
> > **************It's
> Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
> Money &
> > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
> ------------------------------------

friend · Post by **friend** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:34 pm

Zay;
You are correct, and I agree with all you say about the design of the car. Weak link is the crank shaft. If what you say about the 450 is correct (I don’t know) then is the crankshaft rods and pins the same?
Bill

Zay Speed · Post by **Zay Speed** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:58 pm

Hi Bill
Not sure about the connecting rods or crank I have never needed to replace them before. No I did not say
the crank shaft was the week link it is the Timing Chain that runs from crank to cam The stock one stretches way bad.
They use a lighter out put wey stator on the CB 450 so there is a chance the crank end might be different, But I would
think they would have made rotor fit the crank they already had.
The most important thing is changing out that cam chain and getting future points & condensers. The carb is a bit diffrent
But you can cross over the carb main jet to next size down as they tend to run a little rich. You can get all the "O Rings" at a place that sells or makes O rings they are very important change the get hard and let fuel flow past and choking out the motor, honda will not sell the O rings but you can buy a "K & N " carb rebuild kit for about $18.00 and it will come with a lot of what you need K & N also sells cam chain and master link
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Zay J. Speed

> To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> From: billmyong@...
> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:33:38 -0700
> Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: dual output coil from summit
> Zay;
> You are correct, and I agree with all you say about the design of the car. Weak link is the crank shaft. If what you say about the 450 is correct (I dont know) then is the crankshaft rods and pins the same?
> Bill
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:2cylinderho ndas@yahoogroups .com] > On Behalf Of > zayjspeed > Sent:
> Friday, March 14, 2008 2:15 PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: dual output coil from summit
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> , "infinkc" wrote:
> > summit racing has a dual output coil, has anyone had experience > with > > one of these replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock > coil > > with my EFI setup. Also im looking for an electronic > points/condenser,
> > i saw the one Jpro has on evil tweety. any others out there? Jpro > can > > i get your contact info, i have a few questions about your setup.
> > I found a diagram to use the stock points to trigger a external > > electronic ignition i might give that a try as a cheap easy > alternative.
> Hi My name Zay Speed I have been a professional motorcycle mechanic > for over 30 years and worked on lots of "600's" "Accel" > http://www.accel- motorcycle. com/PressRelease s.aspx?BrandID= 9
> offers a coil in there motorcycle line that works very well for a > point system. I use their coil replacements on all motorcycles that I > repair with secondary coil loss, they are way better than stock and > much cheaper. Keep in mind that the 600 motor is a "1968 Honda CB 450 > motorcycle" with a weird trany stuck on it. As far as a pointless > system not sure, cars like vacuum advance, not common on bikes you > could use a "side by side twin" motorcycle after market "Inductive" > or "CDI" but you would lose the vacuum advance. Coil's are sensitive > to ignition type / points / CDI / inductive/ ect. For the performance > out put of this thing the point system works good and is quite cheap!
> you just gota adjust you're valves / change oil & filter / clean & gap > points / check timing every 2,500 miles its part of the cars design > :::::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: :::Zay

friend · Post by **friend** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:29 pm

Zay;
Correct, I said the crank shaft is weak. My question is if the rods and pins for the CB450 are the same as the N600. The cam chain is another story and there are ways of dealing with it. The Oil pump rod is another link in the list of weak parts in the Honda 600 engine, but that too can be put in it's place with good machine work. The crankshaft is another area.
As far as the carb goes, your right about the O rings. The alcohol in the fuel we are forced to use a the pump eats the natural rubber O rings and the nylon bushing on the shafts causing all kinds of problems. But, as you said, the design is 1970's and we didn't have the fuel problems we are dealing with today. Are there any O rings made that will withstand the effects of the combined fuel?
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > Zay Speed > Sent:
> Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:58
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> RE:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: dual output coil from summit
> Hi Bill
>     Not sure about the connecting rods or crank
> I have never needed to replace them before. No I did not say > the crank > shaft was the week link it is the Timing Chain that runs from crank to > cam The stock one stretches way bad.
> They use a lighter out put wey stator
> on the CB 450 so there is a chance the crank end might be different, But I > would > think they would have made rotor fit the crank they already > had.
>     The most important thing is changing out that cam
> chain and getting future points & condensers. The carb is a bit > diffrent > But you can cross over the carb main jet to next size down as > they tend to run a little rich. You can get all the "O Rings" at a place that > sells or makes O rings they are very important change the get hard and let > fuel flow past and choking out the motor, honda will not sell the O rings but > you can buy a "K & N " carb rebuild kit for about $18.00 and it will come > with a lot of what you need K & N also sells cam chain and master > link > :::::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: Zay J. Speed
> > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > From:
> > billmyong@earthlink .net
> > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:33:38
> > -0700
> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: dual output coil from > > summit
> > Zay;
> > You are correct, and I agree with all you say about the design of the > > car. Weak link is the crank shaft.   If what you say about > > the 450 is correct (I dont know) then is the crankshaft rods and pins the > > same?
> > Bill
> > From:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:2cylinderho ndas@yahoogroups .com]
> > On Behalf Of
> > zayjspeed
> > Sent:
> > Friday, March 14, 2008 2:15
> > PM
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject:
> > [2cylinderhondas] Re: dual
> > output coil from summit
> > --- In
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > ,
> > "infinkc" wrote:
> > > summit racing has
> > a dual output coil, has anyone had experience
> > with
> > > one of these
> > replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock > > coil > > > with > > my EFI setup. Also im looking for an electronic
> > points/condenser,
> > > i saw the one Jpro has on evil
> > tweety. any others out there? Jpro
> > can
> > > i get your contact info,
> > i have a few questions about your setup.
> > > I found a diagram
> > to use the stock points to trigger a external
> > > electronic ignition i
> > might give that a try as a cheap easy
> > alternative.
> > Hi My name
> > Zay Speed I have been a professional motorcycle mechanic > > for over 30 > > years and worked on lots of "600's" "Accel" > > http://www.accel- motorcycle. com/PressRelease s.aspx?BrandID= 9
> > offers a coil in there motorcycle line that works very well for a
> > point system. I use their coil replacements on all motorcycles that I
> > repair with secondary coil loss, they are way better than stock and
> > much cheaper. Keep in mind that the 600 motor is a "1968 Honda CB 450
> > motorcycle" with a weird trany stuck on it. As far as a pointless
> > system not sure, cars like vacuum advance, not common on bikes you
> > could use a "side by side twin" motorcycle after market
> > "Inductive"
> > or "CDI" but you would lose the vacuum advance. Coil's are > > sensitive > > to ignition type / points / CDI / inductive/ ect. For the > > performance > > out put of this thing the point system works good and is > > quite cheap!
> > you just gota adjust you're valves / change oil & filter > > / clean & gap > > points / check timing every 2,500 miles its part of the > > cars > > design > > :::::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: :::Zay

jpro8071 · Post by **jpro8071** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:07 pm

You should be able to contact me directly through the group, right?

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "infinkc" wrote:
> summit racing has a dual output coil, has anyone had experience with
> one of these replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock coil
> with my EFI setup. Also im looking for an electronic points/condenser,
> i saw the one Jpro has on evil tweety. any others out there? Jpro can
> i get your contact info, i have a few questions about your setup.
> I found a diagram to use the stock points to trigger a external
> electronic ignition i might give that a try as a cheap easy alternative.

tommyjayallen · Post by **tommyjayallen** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:17 pm

For everyones information. The engine in the car shares no internal components with any bike Honda built during the same time period. The 450 crank is about a third smaller than the 600 crank.The only similarity with any bike engine is in appearance only.
billmyong@... wrote:

> Zay;
> Correct, I said the crank shaft is weak. My question is if the > rods and pins for the CB450 are the same as the N600. The cam chain is another story and there are ways of dealing with it.   The Oil pump rod is another link in the list of weak parts in the Honda 600 engine, but that too can be put in it's place with good machine work. The crankshaft is another area.
>     As far as the carb goes, your right about the O rings. The alcohol in the fuel we are forced to use a the pump eats the natural rubber O rings and the nylon bushing on the shafts causing all kinds of problems. But, as you said, the design is 1970's and we didn't have the fuel problems we are dealing with today. Are there any O rings made that will withstand the effects of the combined fuel?
> Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:2cylinderho ndas@yahoogroups .com] > > On Behalf Of > > Zay Speed > > Sent:
> > Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:58 PM
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject:
> > RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: dual output coil from summit
> > Hi Bill
> >     Not sure about the connecting rods or crank I have never needed to replace them before. No I did not say > > the crank shaft was the week link it is the Timing Chain that runs from crank to cam The stock one stretches way bad.
> > They use a lighter out put wey stator on the CB 450 so there is a chance the crank end might be different, But I would > > think they would have made rotor fit the crank they already had.
> >     The most important thing is changing out that cam chain and getting future points & condensers. The carb is a bit diffrent > > But you can cross over the carb main jet to next size down as they tend to run a little rich. You can get all the "O Rings" at a place that sells or makes O rings they are very important change the get hard and > > let fuel flow past and choking out the motor, honda will not sell the O rings but you can buy a "K & N " carb rebuild kit for about $18.00 and it will come with a lot of what you need K & N also sells cam chain and master link > > :::::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: Zay J. Speed
> > > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > From: billmyong@earthlink .net
> > > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:33:38 -0700
> > > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: dual output coil from summit
> > > Zay;
> > >             You
> > > are correct, and I agree with all you say about the design of the car. Weak link is the crank shaft.   If what you say about the 450 is correct (I don�t know) then is the crankshaft rods and pins the same?
> > > Bill
> > > From:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:2cylinderho ndas@yahoogroups .com] > > > On Behalf Of > > > zayjspeed > > > Sent:
> > > Friday, March 14, 2008 2:15 PM
> > > To:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject:
> > > [2cylinderhondas] Re: dual output coil from summit
> > > --- In
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > , "infinkc" wrote:
> > > > summit racing has a dual
> > > output coil, has anyone had experience
> > > with
> > > > one of these replacing the stock coil? Im debating using my stock > > > coil > > > > with my EFI setup. Also im looking for an electronic > > > points/condenser,
> > > > i saw the one Jpro has on evil tweety. any others out there? Jpro > > > can > > > > i get your contact info, i have a few questions about your setup.
> > > > I found a diagram to use the stock points to trigger a external > > > > electronic ignition i might give that a try as a cheap easy > > > alternative.
> > > Hi My name Zay Speed I have been a professional motorcycle mechanic > > > for over 30 years and worked on lots of "600's" "Accel" > > > http://www.accel- motorcycle. com/PressRelease s.aspx?BrandID= 9
> > > offers a coil in there motorcycle line that works very well for a > > > point system. I use their coil replacements on all > > > motorcycles that I > > > repair with secondary coil loss, they are way better than stock and > > > much cheaper. Keep in mind that the 600 motor is a "1968 Honda CB 450 > > > motorcycle" with a weird trany stuck on it. As far as a pointless > > > system not sure, cars like vacuum advance, not common on bikes you > > > could use a "side by side twin" motorcycle after market "Inductive" > > > or "CDI" but you would lose the vacuum advance. Coil's are sensitive > > > to ignition type / points / CDI / inductive/ ect. For the performance > > > out put of this thing the point system works good and is quite cheap!
> > > you just gota adjust you're valves / change oil & filter / clean & gap > > > points / check timing every 2,500 miles its part of the cars design > > > :::::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: ::::::::: :::Zay
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