My rebuilt engine

[locklobster1]

Thank you all for your help in finding a place to rebuild my engine. I
will recomend anyone with a Honda 600 to come here. I had Tim Mings
work on it, though it was a shoddy job. All in all, the price was
$3,000. Not the best, but OK. He was very rude with me, and was not
professional. No reciepts, no warranties, no nothing... not good.
I asked him if there was any gaurantee of his work. He said, "I'll
gaurantee you it'll break down again". Priceless.... except for the
$3,000. I uploaded some pictures of his work to the website. The phoyo
album will be dubbed "My rebuilt engine".
I, regretfully, will not recommend anyone to Tim Mings. I am sure to be
called on for my actions. Sure, he knows what he's doing, no doubt
about that. Just, why can't he be a professional of it. The man was not
worth my money. Better to send it to someone else. Just send me any
remarks. I'll be glad to fill you all in on more.
Time is no Honda 600 God. No God would be so awful as to disgust His
creation, as Mings did with my engine :(

[riceburner006]

--- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "locklobster1"
wrote:
I believe you.Pictures are not there. Try again!

> Thank you all for your help in finding a place to rebuild my engine. I
> will recomend anyone with a Honda 600 to come here. I had Tim Mings
> work on it, though it was a shoddy job. All in all, the price was
> $3,000. Not the best, but OK. He was very rude with me, and was not
> professional. No reciepts, no warranties, no nothing... not good.
> I asked him if there was any gaurantee of his work. He said, "I'll
> gaurantee you it'll break down again". Priceless.... except for the
> $3,000. I uploaded some pictures of his work to the website. The phoyo
> album will be dubbed "My rebuilt engine".
> I, regretfully, will not recommend anyone to Tim Mings. I am sure to be
> called on for my actions. Sure, he knows what he's doing, no doubt
> about that. Just, why can't he be a professional of it. The man was not
> worth my money. Better to send it to someone else. Just send me any
> remarks. I'll be glad to fill you all in on more.
> Time is no Honda 600 God. No God would be so awful as to disgust His
> creation, as Mings did with my engine :(

[locklobster1]

I'm sorry. Out of frustration, I spelled "photo" wrong. Also, I meant
to say that "Tim" is no honda 600 God (though, "time" seems to be as
bad as an enemy for such vintage cars).
I am sure many of you have had previous work with the man, so that's
why I went to him. It is from my own experience that I now decide to
stay away from him. I warn you all.
Seriously, no reciept? No gaurantee or warranty. Really not good. Had
the job been for $2,000, OK, that would have been fine. Even $2,500,
though a lot, would still have been reasonable. But, $3,000. And then
he was rude.
He has many friends, and I know ridicule will come my way for my
remarks, but, at least I am speaking the truth. This is my Honda 600
story as of late, and I want others to know of it.
I am an experienced automechanic with a shop based in CA. And,
stupidly, I should have done the job myself. I just thought that a
Honda 600 was too unique of a vehicle to just put in anyone's hands,
including my own. Experience should be of preserverance to such a job.
That is what Tim has. Customer satisfaction is what I have not.

[locklobster1]

I also uploaded my photos.
9 in all. Collect the sadness :(
I'll be glad to provide further pictures, if needed.
Still, you guys are all very good at your knowledge of Honda 600 know-
how. To know a bit from my horror story can wisen a few to the truth
of things.
Direct from Tim Ming's
website, "http://mercilessmingshondan600.itgo.com/":
1. "Merciless Mings is the leading authority on HONDA N/Z600 cars"
* Actually, I HOPE not. You all have shown me a higher level of
respect and your professionalism is apparent in the quick responses
to other's questions.
2. "His concourse level restorations have no equal"
* Please, God, somebody must have done a better job. Hell, my niece
could have used her toothbrush to do the same job. That is an obvious
exageration, but is not also Tim's?
3. "... He has become internationally recognized for his abilities in
restoration and preservation of this historically significant
automobile"
* I hope so. May all recognize what a job he had done to me. The man
screwed me good.
4. "Merciless Mings, HONDA N/Z600 God"
* Yeah, God of something.
All in all, please understand that my frustaration is from much more
than the engine. He was very mean. I don't bring too many details
into that because a man's work is what truly the determining factor,
not his social skills. So, may my pictures bring justice.
May his work show him for what he is, not my word or his.
As for this website, I will continue to come and learn. I learned
much from this place. May you all learn from my experience. I hold no
ill well for Tim, maybe I'm the a-hole. But, the engine speaks on its
own. And, as Tim said, "there is no guarantee for it". So, he doesn't
even back his own work? As a mechanic, that is not the way.
A job is done correct when it is done right, the first time. Yes, the
engine runs. Too bad he said he "guarentees" it won't run for long.
What kind of a joke is that?
I welcome any and all comments :) (even you, Tim Ming).

[twincarb600]

Looks like a rebuilt engine to me. I think you will find that there
is a big difference between restored and rebuilt. Most 600 owners
could not afford a completely restored like new engine. I'm talking
new assemblys and not rebuilt/remanufactured cleaned up parts. Run
down to Honda next week and see if you can buy any of the parts you
think look bad. I know the car on his web site looks good but keep
in mind it was not cheap and wasn't done over night. I really don't
think your price was out of line. As far as how long it will last
thats up to you and how it is driven. Putting a guarantee on
something that is 36+ years old is hard to do when there is no new
parts to back up a guarantee. The big question is does it run? I
have a car that Tim rebuilt and it runs great. It also has worn fan
mount bushings but is still doing the job they were ment to do. I
have new bushings but if the old ones work why waste the new one. I
don't think the next time I show the engine to someone they are going
to know the difference.
(My car is the orange coupe with junk piled on it. One of my other is
the green coupe with the wrong size wheel. Pictures on Bill's group
site)
Robert

[friend]

Locklobster1
    Lets do this by the numbers, because as an experienced mechanic you say you are,  I wouldn't want to confuse the issue.
        Picture 1 of 9 - I really can't tell what the picture is of.  The engine looks like it was cleaned, not bead blasted or acid dipped, but clean old aluminum.
        Picture 2 of 9 - That Rusted thing -  Do you mean the vacuum advance unit?  If that is a part of the rebuild you specified as being part of the engine, well it's not.  It's part of the distributor.  Any engine you get rebuilt the extremities such as the distributor, carb, fan, Alternator.... are just that extremities.
        Picture 3 of 9 - Fan Cushions - Just as I said in 2 of 9.
        Picture 4 of 9 - That is the Back up light switch.  Every one I have is just like it until I cleaned and worked my butt off getting it to look and work like new.  But the plastic is still brittle as can be and short of rewiring the unit it is all cosmetic.   But again, as I said in 2 - 9 not part of the engine.  More cosmetics.
        Picture 5 of 9 - That is the tie rod end dust cover, not the rack.  So, what was wrong with the rack?  I believe like all of us, the Pinion shaft bushings were replaced and the rack disassembled and put back together.  Show me the wobble in the pinion shaft.   I see this as a tie rod end and the dust boot at that.  But before I put it back on I'd change it, if you can find one.
        Picture 6 of 9 - Fan shroud rubber cushion.  New ones look about the same.  It's rubber and squeezes out around the edges.  More cosmetics.
        Picture 7 of 9 - If your talking about the cylinder fin rubber, that too is external to the engine rebuild.  When I do an engine it comes with a few (paid for) extras.  But, most owners prefer to do them because I use Neoprene and that stuff gets expensive.  But it stands up to Acid, Solvent, Oil, Heat, Sun aging, and rebounds from Hot and Cold.
        Picture 8 of 9 - Exhaust and heat exchanger, more cosmetics and as I said in 2 of 9, this is not part of the engine rebuild.
        Picture 9 of 9  Fan Belt, if your original belt was just replaced before you took it over to Tim to have it rebuilt, why?  It's getting pulled apart for rebuild, I'd tell you to wake up, your dreaming.
I have put a number of engines together for many folks and getting an engine to look like new is a fair amount of detail.  Your remarks apply to cosmetics, parts that are not part of the rebuild and if they were done I would question what was done on the inside of the engine.
My bet is that your engine will run very well unless your carb is fouled, it will not leak and the rack will give you a quick turn on the steering wheel to wheel.  Not the 3 inches of play it had when you brought it over to Tim.
With labor costs that they are today - just in labor I think you got one hell of a deal.  Because unless I am living in another part of California, getting the engine, transmission, and differential all rebuilt for 3 grand is one heck of an accomplishment.  Please take me to the other Honda 600 shop that will do that for that price.
And, I sent this to Tim, hate talking about people without them knowing about it.   Makes things appear closed door or behind their back.  I work with the Better Business Bureau (BBB) and laud their services when ever it makes since.  And they have a saying that I believe applies here.  "If you don't do business you won't get a complaint, but then you won't make any money either.  And, like bad businesses there are bad customers and no matter how you treat them they will never be satisfied."   If you have a complaint, go to the BBB and let them mediate, but as I said above I believe your claims are unfounded.
Bill Colford

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > locklobster1 > Sent:
> Friday, August 22, 2008 5:01
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] My rebuilt engine
> Thank you all for your help in finding a place to rebuild my engine. I
> will recomend anyone with a Honda 600 to come here. I had Tim Mings
> work on it, though it was a shoddy job. All in all, the price was
> $3,000. Not the best, but OK. He was very rude with me, and was not
> professional. No reciepts, no warranties, no nothing... not good.
> I
> asked him if there was any gaurantee of his work. He said, "I'll > gaurantee > you it'll break down again". Priceless... . except for the > $3,000. I > uploaded some pictures of his work to the website. The phoyo > album will be > dubbed "My rebuilt engine".
> I, regretfully, will not recommend anyone
> to Tim Mings. I am sure to be
> called on for my actions. Sure, he knows
> what he's doing, no doubt
> about that. Just, why can't he be a professional
> of it. The man was not
> worth my money. Better to send it to someone else.
> Just send me any
> remarks. I'll be glad to fill you all in on
> more.
> Time is no Honda 600 God. No God would be so awful as to disgust > His > creation, as Mings did with my engine :(

[deantds2]

thanks robert "twincarb600" you said it better than i could. dean
Want more out of life? Click here to find a massage therapy school and begin an exciting career.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL ... zAJzh5bdl/

[tdthies1]

I dont know anything about Tim except what i have read and seen on
the internet that said, I had my engine rebuilt by a couple of local
guys in washington that have been working on these cars since i think
in the 70s. They redid the top and bottom end plus a little work on
the trans. useing another motor i had as a spare. Pistons, rings
crank and a few other things. The motor did not come back
looking "new" but came back rebuilt and running pretty good (need
rebuilt carb). No warrenty becuse of used parts. Kinda hard to
warranty used parts becuse, well they are used. I know one of the
guys that rebuild them on ebay offers a one year warrenty and it
would be awesome if they all did. They only thing i dont understand
is why you did not get a reciept. That way if you sold it you could
show the work was done and i would ask for that, but after all that
has been said he may not want to.
MY cost for my motor was around $2,500 but labor cost from one shop
to the other and the fact Tim is so well known his cost might be
higher. I am not saying he did the job right or wrong just what i
got from my rebuild.
hope this helps
Tom
I have some pictures here. It is the green car second row i think
with the blue motor compartment. Which is the color it is going to
be.

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> Locklobster1
> Lets do this by the numbers, because as an experienced mechanic
you say
> you are, I wouldn't want to confuse the issue.
> Picture 1 of 9 - I really can't tell what the picture is
of. The
> engine looks like it was cleaned, not bead blasted or acid dipped,
but clean
> old aluminum.
> Picture 2 of 9 - That Rusted thing - Do you mean the
vacuum advance
> unit? If that is a part of the rebuild you specified as being part
of the
> engine, well it's not. It's part of the distributor. Any engine
you get
> rebuilt the extremities such as the distributor, carb, fan,
Alternator....
> are just that extremities.
> Picture 3 of 9 - Fan Cushions - Just as I said in 2 of 9.
> Picture 4 of 9 - That is the Back up light switch. Every
one I have
> is just like it until I cleaned and worked my butt off getting it
to look
> and work like new. But the plastic is still brittle as can be and
short of
> rewiring the unit it is all cosmetic. But again, as I said in 2 -
9 not
> part of the engine. More cosmetics.
> Picture 5 of 9 - That is the tie rod end dust cover, not
the rack.
> So, what was wrong with the rack? I believe like all of us, the
Pinion
> shaft bushings were replaced and the rack disassembled and put back
> together. Show me the wobble in the pinion shaft. I see this as
a tie rod
> end and the dust boot at that. But before I put it back on I'd
change it,
> if you can find one.
> Picture 6 of 9 - Fan shroud rubber cushion. New ones look
about the
> same. It's rubber and squeezes out around the edges. More
cosmetics.
> Picture 7 of 9 - If your talking about the cylinder fin
rubber, that
> too is external to the engine rebuild. When I do an engine it
comes with a
> few (paid for) extras. But, most owners prefer to do them because
I use
> Neoprene and that stuff gets expensive. But it stands up to Acid,
Solvent,
> Oil, Heat, Sun aging, and rebounds from Hot and Cold.
> Picture 8 of 9 - Exhaust and heat exchanger, more cosmetics
and as I
> said in 2 of 9, this is not part of the engine rebuild.
> Picture 9 of 9 Fan Belt, if your original belt was just
replaced
> before you took it over to Tim to have it rebuilt, why? It's
getting pulled
> apart for rebuild, I'd tell you to wake up, your dreaming.
> I have put a number of engines together for many folks and getting
an engine
> to look like new is a fair amount of detail. Your remarks apply to
> cosmetics, parts that are not part of the rebuild and if they were
done I
> would question what was done on the inside of the engine.
> My bet is that your engine will run very well unless your carb is
fouled, it
> will not leak and the rack will give you a quick turn on the
steering wheel
> to wheel. Not the 3 inches of play it had when you brought it over
to Tim.
> With labor costs that they are today - just in labor I think you
got one
> hell of a deal. Because unless I am living in another part of
California,
> getting the engine, transmission, and differential all rebuilt for
3 grand
> is one heck of an accomplishment. Please take me to the other
Honda 600
> shop that will do that for that price.
> And, I sent this to Tim, hate talking about people without them
knowing
> about it. Makes things appear closed door or behind their back.
I work
> with the Better Business Bureau (BBB) and laud their services when
ever it
> makes since. And they have a saying that I believe applies
here. "If you
> don't do business you won't get a complaint, but then you won't
make any
> money either. And, like bad businesses there are bad customers and
no
> matter how you treat them they will never be satisfied." If you
have a
> complaint, go to the BBB and let them mediate, but as I said above
I believe
> your claims are unfounded.
> Bill Colford
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of locklobster1
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:01 PM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] My rebuilt engine
> Thank you all for your help in finding a place to rebuild my
engine. I
> will recomend anyone with a Honda 600 to come here. I had Tim
Mings
> work on it, though it was a shoddy job. All in all, the price was
> $3,000. Not the best, but OK. He was very rude with me, and was
not
> professional. No reciepts, no warranties, no nothing... not good.
> I asked him if there was any gaurantee of his work. He said, "I'll
> gaurantee you it'll break down again". Priceless.... except for
the
> $3,000. I uploaded some pictures of his work to the website. The
phoyo
> album will be dubbed "My rebuilt engine".
> I, regretfully, will not recommend anyone to Tim Mings. I am sure
to be
> called on for my actions. Sure, he knows what he's doing, no doubt
> about that. Just, why can't he be a professional of it. The man
was not
> worth my money. Better to send it to someone else. Just send me
any
> remarks. I'll be glad to fill you all in on more.
> Time is no Honda 600 God. No God would be so awful as to disgust
His
> creation, as Mings did with my engine :(

[Mario Montes]

Dude seriously stop spamming other people's threads.
To stay on topic, as long as he did all the work to the inside, it's true, a lot of the other stuff is not considered part of the engine rebuild, such as the vacuum advance and exhaust system.
Maybe you should have asked what was going to be done before you just signed away the work.
Mario

On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 11:31 AM,
Hello Group, I have a Honda 600 z coupe tail pipe for sale, came with a bunch of nos parts I bought, looks to be new, but looks aftermarket, $50.00 plus shipping, not a bad price, e mail me at > DESSUREAU@...
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> billmyong@...
> To: Tim Mings H_mings@...
> >;
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ; Anzhonda600owners anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 7:11 am
> Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] My rebuilt engine
> Locklobster1
>     Lets do this by the numbers, because as an experienced mechanic you say you are,  I wouldn't want to confuse the issue.
>         Picture 1 of 9 - I really can't tell what the picture is of.  The engine looks like it was cleaned, not bead blasted or acid dipped, but clean old aluminum.
>         Picture 2 of 9 - That Rusted thing -  Do you mean the vacuum advance unit?  If that is a part of the rebuild you specified as being part of the engine, well it's not.  It's part of the distributor.  Any engine you get rebuilt the extremities such as the distributor, carb, fan, Alternator.... are just that extremities.
>         Picture 3 of 9 - Fan Cushions - Just as I said in 2 of 9.
>         Picture 4 of 9 - That is the Back up light switch.  Every one I have is just like it until I cleaned and worked my butt off getting it to look and work like new.  But the plastic is still brittle as can be and short of rewiring the unit it is all cosmetic.   But again, as I said in 2 - 9 not part of the engine.  More cosmetics.
>         Picture 5 of 9 - That is the tie rod end dust cover, not the rack.  So, what was wrong with the rack?  I believe like all of us, the Pinion shaft bushings were replaced and the rack disassembled and put back together.  Show me the wobble in the pinion shaft.   I see this as a tie rod end and the dust boot at that.  But before I put it back on I'd change it, if you can find one.
>         Picture 6 of 9 - Fan shroud rubber cushion.  New ones look about the same.  It's rubber and squeezes out around the edges.  More cosmetics.
>         Picture 7 of 9 - If your talking about the cylinder fin rubber, that too is external to the engine rebuild.  When I do an engine it comes with a few (paid for) extras.  But, most owners prefer to do them because I use Neoprene and that stuff gets expensive.  But it stands up to Acid, Solvent, Oil, Heat, Sun aging, and rebounds from Hot and Cold.
>         Picture 8 of 9 - Exhaust and heat exchanger, more cosmetics and as I said in 2 of 9, this is not part of the engine rebuild.
>         Picture 9 of 9  Fan Belt, if your original belt was just replaced before you took it over to Tim to have it rebuilt, why?  It's getting pulled apart for rebuild, I'd tell you to wake up, your dreaming.
> I have put a number of engines together for many folks and getting an engine to look like new is a fair amount of detail.  Your remarks apply to cosmetics, parts that are not part of the rebuild and if they were done I would question what was done on the inside of the engine.
> My bet is that your engine will run very well unless your carb is fouled, it will not leak and the rack will give you a quick turn on the steering wheel to wheel.  Not the 3 inches of play it had when you brought it over to Tim.
> With labor costs that they are today - just in labor I think you got one hell of a deal.  Because unless I am living in another part of California, getting the engine, transmission, and differential all rebuilt for 3 grand is one heck of an accomplishment.  Please take me to the other Honda 600 shop that will do that for that price.
> And, I sent this to Tim, hate talking about people without them knowing about it.   Makes things appear closed door or behind their back.  I work with the Better Business Bureau (BBB) and laud their services when ever it makes since.  And they have a saying that I believe applies here.  "If you don't do business you won't get a complaint, but then you won't make any money either.  And, like bad businesses there are bad customers and no matter how you treat them they will never be satisfied."   If you have a complaint, go to the BBB and let them mediate, but as I said above I believe your claims are unfounded.
> Bill Colford
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [
> > mailto:2cylinderho
> > ndas@yahoogroups.com
> > ]
> > On Behalf Of
> > locklobster1
> > Sent:
> > Friday, August 22, 2008 5:01 PM
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject:
> > [2cylinderhondas] My rebuilt engine
> > Thank you all for your help in finding a place to rebuild my engine. I
> > will recomend anyone with a Honda 600 to come here. I had Tim Mings
> > work on it, though it was a shoddy job. All in all, the price was
> > $3,000. Not the best, but OK. He was very rude with me, and was not
> > professional. No reciepts, no warranties, no nothing... not good.
> > I asked him if there was any gaurantee of his work. He said, "I'll
> > gaurantee you it'll break down again". Priceless.... except for the
> > $3,000. I uploaded some pictures of his work to the website. The phoyo
> > album will be dubbed "My rebuilt engine".
> > I, regretfully, will not recommend anyone to Tim Mings. I am sure to be
> > called on for my actions. Sure, he knows what he's doing, no doubt
> > about that. Just, why can't he be a professional of it. The man was not
> > worth my money. Better to send it to someone else. Just send me any
> > remarks. I'll be glad to fill you all in on more.
> > Time is no Honda 600 God. No God would be so awful as to disgust His
> > creation, as Mings did with my engine :(
> Get the MapQuest Toolbar
> . Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices More!

[kristoferdahl]

I guess my take on it depends on what you hired him to do. If it was
an engine rebuild, it looks like he did what you wanted.
An engine rebuild doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get a
'crate engine' with all new accessories and bolt-ons.
Did he say he was also going to replace the accessories? Like the
belts, vacuum advance and all the exhaust, fan components? I think he
probably just re-assembled what you gave him. This doesn't mean that
the rebuild was shoddy. Just that the communication on what service
he was offering was.
Which could very well be the issue here. The only time I tried to
work with Tim Mings, he was a total jerk to me. I couldn't really
tell if he just had a strange sense of humor or was actually a
complete a-hole. Was going to ask some folks about that but never did.
And again regarding the rack, I don't usually consider the tie rod
ends to be part of a rack an pinion rebuild. They probably shouldn't
have actually even sent to him. Did he say that new tie rod ends were
included in the rack rebuild?
I'm not saying you don't have a point, but really it all comes down to
what was promised and what was delivered. I suspect some assumptions
were made on both sides.
Tim probably assumed that you knew he wasn't going to do anything
except rebuild the actual motor itself, and you assumed you were going
to get a full-on restoration. The deal probably should have been more
clear and enumerated from the outset, that way both parties would have
known what to expect going in.