72 booster pic

[David Douglass]

Here is a pic of a 72 booster, not mine but form my collection of photos.

[trtlepnther21]

Since everyone is talking about brakes, I have a question.
I recently started restoring my 1970 honda 600 sedan after it was sitting for a decade. When I first tried to press on the brakes the pedal was rock hard, and completely resisted the pressure I placed on it. Didn't budge. WELL, I decided I just need to press alittle harder. Sure enough that was the problem.... The pedal went straight to the floor board and now will depress without any resistance every time. I am planning on rebuilding the master cylinder, but where should I start? Would it be wise to flush the entire sytem and try to add new fluid prior to rebuilding any components? Has anyone experienced this first hand as well and if so, how was it resolved? Does this sound like a master cylinder problem or a vacuum booster problem? Can I just bleed from the vacuum booster? I have no clue as to the correct process and don't wantt o touch anything prior to a little further understanding.
Thanks as always guys.

[TOM THIES]

after the pedal went to the floor did you have Brake fluid under the brake pedal or anywhere on the ground out side?  could be the master or a line or at the wheels.  I know there is a way to check the booster but I do not know how.  do a search here in the forums.  When I brought mine home it did ok but the next day I went to put on the brakes and it did the same thing..  Master cylinder and brake fluid all over on the floor and fire wall.. talk about a paint stripper. wow,  took it right off.
hope some of this helps
Tom T

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> trtlepnther21
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:34
> PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: 72 booster
> pic
> Since everyone is talking about brakes, I have a question.
> I
> recently started restoring my 1970 honda 600 sedan after it was sitting for a > decade. When I first tried to press on the brakes the pedal was rock hard, and > completely resisted the pressure I placed on it. Didn't budge. WELL, I decided > I just need to press alittle harder. Sure enough that was the problem.... The > pedal went straight to the floor board and now will depress without any > resistance every time. I am planning on rebuilding the master cylinder, but > where should I start? Would it be wise to flush the entire sytem and try to > add new fluid prior to rebuilding any components? Has anyone experienced this > first hand as well and if so, how was it resolved? Does this sound like a > master cylinder problem or a vacuum booster problem? Can I just bleed from the > vacuum booster? I have no clue as to the correct process and don't wantt o > touch anything prior to a little further understanding.
> Thanks as
> always guys.

[trtlepnther21]

Tom,
No, there was no fluid apparent on the ground after this occured. (And thankfully from the sounds of it.) That could have been since any existing "fluid" that remained in the system after 10 years of siting was like putty in the reservoir. It may have already had the main line into the master cylinder clogged... I will check that tomorrow. However, since there was no real liquid in the lines, there was no leak when the pedal depressed to the floor.
I will be bleeding all the brakes tomorrow and HOPEFULLY the system magically returns to semi-normal. That has been the norm, surprisingly, throughout the recent weeks of restoration. I will be rebuilding the master cylinder in the near future regardless of what I find. Thanks for the quick response. I will keep everyone posted on the process.
Matt

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "TOM THIES" wrote:
> after the pedal went to the floor did you have Brake fluid under the brake pedal or anywhere on the ground out side? could be the master or a line or at the wheels. I know there is a way to check the booster but I do not know how. do a search here in the forums. When I brought mine home it did ok but the next day I went to put on the brakes and it did the same thing.. Master cylinder and brake fluid all over on the floor and fire wall.. talk about a paint stripper. wow, took it right off.
> hope some of this helps
> Tom T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: trtlepnther21
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:34 PM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 72 booster pic
> Since everyone is talking about brakes, I have a question.
> I recently started restoring my 1970 honda 600 sedan after it was sitting for a decade. When I first tried to press on the brakes the pedal was rock hard, and completely resisted the pressure I placed on it. Didn't budge. WELL, I decided I just need to press alittle harder. Sure enough that was the problem.... The pedal went straight to the floor board and now will depress without any resistance every time. I am planning on rebuilding the master cylinder, but where should I start? Would it be wise to flush the entire sytem and try to add new fluid prior to rebuilding any components? Has anyone experienced this first hand as well and if so, how was it resolved? Does this sound like a master cylinder problem or a vacuum booster problem? Can I just bleed from the vacuum booster? I have no clue as to the correct process and don't wantt o touch anything prior to a little further understanding.
> Thanks as always guys.

[feltonminicycle]

The only way to check the booster is take it apart. Fluid can leak in to many places it is not supposed to be. Once the canister is full it will start sucking fluid in to the engine. The only place fluid is supposed to be is in the cylinder, not in the breather or canister.
If your car sat 10 years you will most likely need to not only rebuild but also resleeve the brake parts. Also better not try to force fluid through a dried out system. If your brake shoes are dry now, may be wet later and won't be useable once they are wet.
Miles

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "trtlepnther21" wrote:
> Tom,
> No, there was no fluid apparent on the ground after this occured. (And thankfully from the sounds of it.) That could have been since any existing "fluid" that remained in the system after 10 years of siting was like putty in the reservoir. It may have already had the main line into the master cylinder clogged... I will check that tomorrow. However, since there was no real liquid in the lines, there was no leak when the pedal depressed to the floor.
> I will be bleeding all the brakes tomorrow and HOPEFULLY the system magically returns to semi-normal. That has been the norm, surprisingly, throughout the recent weeks of restoration. I will be rebuilding the master cylinder in the near future regardless of what I find. Thanks for the quick response. I will keep everyone posted on the process.
> Matt
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "TOM THIES" wrote:
> > after the pedal went to the floor did you have Brake fluid under the brake pedal or anywhere on the ground out side? could be the master or a line or at the wheels. I know there is a way to check the booster but I do not know how. do a search here in the forums. When I brought mine home it did ok but the next day I went to put on the brakes and it did the same thing.. Master cylinder and brake fluid all over on the floor and fire wall.. talk about a paint stripper. wow, took it right off.
> > hope some of this helps
> > Tom T
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: trtlepnther21
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:34 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 72 booster pic
> > Since everyone is talking about brakes, I have a question.
> > I recently started restoring my 1970 honda 600 sedan after it was sitting for a decade. When I first tried to press on the brakes the pedal was rock hard, and completely resisted the pressure I placed on it. Didn't budge. WELL, I decided I just need to press alittle harder. Sure enough that was the problem.... The pedal went straight to the floor board and now will depress without any resistance every time. I am planning on rebuilding the master cylinder, but where should I start? Would it be wise to flush the entire sytem and try to add new fluid prior to rebuilding any components? Has anyone experienced this first hand as well and if so, how was it resolved? Does this sound like a master cylinder problem or a vacuum booster problem? Can I just bleed from the vacuum booster? I have no clue as to the correct process and don't wantt o touch anything prior to a little further understanding.
> > Thanks as always guys.

[Matthew Trtan]

I see.
I started to think about the way it happened and the mechanics of the master cyl.  Could it be that when the pedal wasn't budging it was due to the gum-like consistency of the remainging brake fluid... Kind of like attempting to drink a thick milkshake through a tiny straw.  When I finally put enough pressure on the pedal, what gummy fluid remained in the line from the reservoir was pushed into the cylinder and binded up the internals.  Return spring did not travel back.
I am taking the cylinder off instead of bleeding the system.  Be back to post how that goes later this afternoon.
Thanks for saving my brakes.
Matthew Trtan AAIA LEED AP

On Feb 21, 2010, at 5:41 AM, "feltonminicycle" wrote:
The only way to check the booster is take it apart. Fluid can leak in to many places it is not supposed to be. Once the canister is full it will start sucking fluid in to the engine. The only place fluid is supposed to be is in the cylinder, not in the breather or canister.
If your car sat 10 years you will most likely need to not only rebuild but also resleeve the brake parts. Also better not try to force fluid through a dried out system. If your brake shoes are dry now, may be wet later and won't be useable once they are wet.
Miles
--- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, "trtlepnther21" wrote:
> Tom,
> No, there was no fluid apparent on the ground after this occured. (And thankfully from the sounds of it.) That could have been since any existing "fluid" that remained in the system after 10 years of siting was like putty in the reservoir. It may have already had the main line into the master cylinder clogged... I will check that tomorrow. However, since there was no real liquid in the lines, there was no leak when the pedal depressed to the floor.
> I will be bleeding all the brakes tomorrow and HOPEFULLY the system magically returns to semi-normal. That has been the norm, surprisingly, throughout the recent weeks of restoration. I will be rebuilding the master cylinder in the near future regardless of what I find. Thanks for the quick response. I will keep everyone posted on the process.
> Matt
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, "TOM THIES" wrote:
> > after the pedal went to the floor did you have Brake fluid under the brake pedal or anywhere on the ground out side? could be the master or a line or at the wheels. I know there is a way to check the booster but I do not know how. do a search here in the forums. When I brought mine home it did ok but the next day I went to put on the brakes and it did the same thing.. Master cylinder and brake fluid all over on the floor and fire wall.. talk about a paint stripper. wow, took it right off.
> > hope some of this helps
> > Tom T
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: trtlepnther21
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:34 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 72 booster pic
> > Since everyone is talking about brakes, I have a question.
> > I recently started restoring my 1970 honda 600 sedan after it was sitting for a decade. When I first tried to press on the brakes the pedal was rock hard, and completely resisted the pressure I placed on it. Didn't budge. WELL, I decided I just need to press alittle harder. Sure enough that was the problem.... The pedal went straight to the floor board and now will depress without any resistance every time. I am planning on rebuilding the master cylinder, but where should I start? Would it be wise to flush the entire sytem and try to add new fluid prior to rebuilding any components? Has anyone experienced this first hand as well and if so, how was it resolved? Does this sound like a master cylinder problem or a vacuum booster problem? Can I just bleed from the vacuum booster? I have no clue as to the correct process and don't wantt o touch anything prior to a little further understanding.
> > Thanks as always guys.

[Matthew Trtan]

The question is now whether to take the booster apart too.  Sounds like a good idea, but I'd rather not have to touch if I can get by without doing so.
Matthew Trtan AAIA LEED AP

On Feb 21, 2010, at 5:41 AM, "feltonminicycle" wrote:
The only way to check the booster is take it apart. Fluid can leak in to many places it is not supposed to be. Once the canister is full it will start sucking fluid in to the engine. The only place fluid is supposed to be is in the cylinder, not in the breather or canister.
If your car sat 10 years you will most likely need to not only rebuild but also resleeve the brake parts. Also better not try to force fluid through a dried out system. If your brake shoes are dry now, may be wet later and won't be useable once they are wet.
Miles
--- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, "trtlepnther21" wrote:
> Tom,
> No, there was no fluid apparent on the ground after this occured. (And thankfully from the sounds of it.) That could have been since any existing "fluid" that remained in the system after 10 years of siting was like putty in the reservoir. It may have already had the main line into the master cylinder clogged... I will check that tomorrow. However, since there was no real liquid in the lines, there was no leak when the pedal depressed to the floor.
> I will be bleeding all the brakes tomorrow and HOPEFULLY the system magically returns to semi-normal. That has been the norm, surprisingly, throughout the recent weeks of restoration. I will be rebuilding the master cylinder in the near future regardless of what I find. Thanks for the quick response. I will keep everyone posted on the process.
> Matt
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, "TOM THIES" wrote:
> > after the pedal went to the floor did you have Brake fluid under the brake pedal or anywhere on the ground out side? could be the master or a line or at the wheels. I know there is a way to check the booster but I do not know how. do a search here in the forums. When I brought mine home it did ok but the next day I went to put on the brakes and it did the same thing.. Master cylinder and brake fluid all over on the floor and fire wall.. talk about a paint stripper. wow, took it right off.
> > hope some of this helps
> > Tom T
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: trtlepnther21
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:34 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 72 booster pic
> > Since everyone is talking about brakes, I have a question.
> > I recently started restoring my 1970 honda 600 sedan after it was sitting for a decade. When I first tried to press on the brakes the pedal was rock hard, and completely resisted the pressure I placed on it. Didn't budge. WELL, I decided I just need to press alittle harder. Sure enough that was the problem.... The pedal went straight to the floor board and now will depress without any resistance every time. I am planning on rebuilding the master cylinder, but where should I start? Would it be wise to flush the entire sytem and try to add new fluid prior to rebuilding any components? Has anyone experienced this first hand as well and if so, how was it resolved? Does this sound like a master cylinder problem or a vacuum booster problem? Can I just bleed from the vacuum booster? I have no clue as to the correct process and don't wantt o touch anything prior to a little further understanding.
> > Thanks as always guys.

[Matthew Trtan]

Exactly what I expected.  The internal workings were gummed up and not moving.  Everything was pushed all the way in to the cylinder.  Next step is to take account of the damage.  I'll post pics soon.
Matthew Trtan AAIA LEED AP

On Feb 21, 2010, at 5:41 AM, "feltonminicycle" wrote:
The only way to check the booster is take it apart. Fluid can leak in to many places it is not supposed to be. Once the canister is full it will start sucking fluid in to the engine. The only place fluid is supposed to be is in the cylinder, not in the breather or canister.
If your car sat 10 years you will most likely need to not only rebuild but also resleeve the brake parts. Also better not try to force fluid through a dried out system. If your brake shoes are dry now, may be wet later and won't be useable once they are wet.
Miles
--- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, "trtlepnther21" wrote:
> Tom,
> No, there was no fluid apparent on the ground after this occured. (And thankfully from the sounds of it.) That could have been since any existing "fluid" that remained in the system after 10 years of siting was like putty in the reservoir. It may have already had the main line into the master cylinder clogged... I will check that tomorrow. However, since there was no real liquid in the lines, there was no leak when the pedal depressed to the floor.
> I will be bleeding all the brakes tomorrow and HOPEFULLY the system magically returns to semi-normal. That has been the norm, surprisingly, throughout the recent weeks of restoration. I will be rebuilding the master cylinder in the near future regardless of what I find. Thanks for the quick response. I will keep everyone posted on the process.
> Matt
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, "TOM THIES" wrote:
> > after the pedal went to the floor did you have Brake fluid under the brake pedal or anywhere on the ground out side? could be the master or a line or at the wheels. I know there is a way to check the booster but I do not know how. do a search here in the forums. When I brought mine home it did ok but the next day I went to put on the brakes and it did the same thing.. Master cylinder and brake fluid all over on the floor and fire wall.. talk about a paint stripper. wow, took it right off.
> > hope some of this helps
> > Tom T
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: trtlepnther21
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:34 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 72 booster pic
> > Since everyone is talking about brakes, I have a question.
> > I recently started restoring my 1970 honda 600 sedan after it was sitting for a decade. When I first tried to press on the brakes the pedal was rock hard, and completely resisted the pressure I placed on it. Didn't budge. WELL, I decided I just need to press alittle harder. Sure enough that was the problem.... The pedal went straight to the floor board and now will depress without any resistance every time. I am planning on rebuilding the master cylinder, but where should I start? Would it be wise to flush the entire sytem and try to add new fluid prior to rebuilding any components? Has anyone experienced this first hand as well and if so, how was it resolved? Does this sound like a master cylinder problem or a vacuum booster problem? Can I just bleed from the vacuum booster? I have no clue as to the correct process and don't wantt o touch anything prior to a little further understanding.
> > Thanks as always guys.