I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the piston?
Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
Thanks.
master cylinder rebuild effort
Re: master cylinder rebuild effort
This is the question I've been waiting for! ..... or moreso the answer !!!
I've got a stuck piston too, though have been able to remove about everything that could be removed with the aid of penetrating fluid .....and PATIENCE!
I've had sucess with ~HEAT~ and tapping it upside down on a block of wood in the past....
or you can drill a hole in the end, push out the piston, thread the hole and plug it with a small short bolt and compression washer (I think the Honda gurus approve of this method as a last resort!?)
And most recently, I replaced all the parts and pieces, hooked it up to the rear brake hose with an extra rear brake line I have, and tryed to use the hydrolic pressure of the brake system to back out the piston....... but that didn't work :/
So try heating the cylinder and knocking it upsidedown on a block of wood -
enough heat that still won't burn your hand and enough knock that don't hurt your hand!
Keep it soaking.... while you wait for others to reply. You will have to remove almost everything eventually to properly clean and clear all the little port hole for the fluid to flow properly.
....and sorry for the venacular, I don't have my manual here to properly identify all the misc elements
Dan
I've got a stuck piston too, though have been able to remove about everything that could be removed with the aid of penetrating fluid .....and PATIENCE!
I've had sucess with ~HEAT~ and tapping it upside down on a block of wood in the past....
or you can drill a hole in the end, push out the piston, thread the hole and plug it with a small short bolt and compression washer (I think the Honda gurus approve of this method as a last resort!?)
And most recently, I replaced all the parts and pieces, hooked it up to the rear brake hose with an extra rear brake line I have, and tryed to use the hydrolic pressure of the brake system to back out the piston....... but that didn't work :/
So try heating the cylinder and knocking it upsidedown on a block of wood -
enough heat that still won't burn your hand and enough knock that don't hurt your hand!
Keep it soaking.... while you wait for others to reply. You will have to remove almost everything eventually to properly clean and clear all the little port hole for the fluid to flow properly.
....and sorry for the venacular, I don't have my manual here to properly identify all the misc elements
Dan
--- On
Sun, 2/21/10, trtlepnther21
wrote:
From: trtlepnther21
Subject: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 9:01 PM
I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the piston?
Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
Thanks.
Re: master cylinder rebuild effort
Here are my suggestions (I'm sure you will see others)......
1) remove as many of the fittings on it as possible (the section where the brake reservoirs are connected and the stop light switches and anything else you can remove
2) soak in brake fluid (I have seen others mention warm water but I use brake fluid)
3) remove the bolt at the very front (and side) of the MC (it has a 10 mm head) and remove the circlip at the rear of the MC which holds the pistons in place. Try using a small pin driver or screwdriver through the hole in the front (where you removed the 10mm bolt) to push the piston assembly free.
4) If this doesn't work (and it may not since the piston assembly is spring loaded), let it soak for several days and then try slamming the rear section against a piece of wood. You can also try tapping on the MC with a plastic mallet to set up some vibrations which may free things up (don't hit it with a metal hammer.... you don't want to damage the MC). If you had access to an ultrasonic cleaner, this could be helpful.
If it doesn't come free, let it soak some more and every day try slamming it against the wooden block. You can also heat the MC with a heat gun or hair dryer (If you use a propane torch, you need to be very careful).
If you still cannot get it free, you may need to accept that even if you do get the assembly to come out, the entire cylinder is going to need rebuilding (re-sleeve the cylinder, replace all the seals, replacing any of the other components which are damaged). This is where it can get expensive. Miles may still be selling the seals.
When it gets to this point where nothing is working, you can heat up the MC until the seals and the dried brake fluid (it turns into a compound which reminds me of dried rubber cement) are hot enough that everything slides out. And then you can rebuild the whole thing or pick up a used one from someone on this post.
I have found that it just takes patience and persistence to get the assembly to come apart. At a minimum, you are going to need to clean the bore and replace the two piston seals. It is very likely the bore may need to be re-sleeved.
Good luck,
Dale
1) remove as many of the fittings on it as possible (the section where the brake reservoirs are connected and the stop light switches and anything else you can remove
2) soak in brake fluid (I have seen others mention warm water but I use brake fluid)
3) remove the bolt at the very front (and side) of the MC (it has a 10 mm head) and remove the circlip at the rear of the MC which holds the pistons in place. Try using a small pin driver or screwdriver through the hole in the front (where you removed the 10mm bolt) to push the piston assembly free.
4) If this doesn't work (and it may not since the piston assembly is spring loaded), let it soak for several days and then try slamming the rear section against a piece of wood. You can also try tapping on the MC with a plastic mallet to set up some vibrations which may free things up (don't hit it with a metal hammer.... you don't want to damage the MC). If you had access to an ultrasonic cleaner, this could be helpful.
If it doesn't come free, let it soak some more and every day try slamming it against the wooden block. You can also heat the MC with a heat gun or hair dryer (If you use a propane torch, you need to be very careful).
If you still cannot get it free, you may need to accept that even if you do get the assembly to come out, the entire cylinder is going to need rebuilding (re-sleeve the cylinder, replace all the seals, replacing any of the other components which are damaged). This is where it can get expensive. Miles may still be selling the seals.
When it gets to this point where nothing is working, you can heat up the MC until the seals and the dried brake fluid (it turns into a compound which reminds me of dried rubber cement) are hot enough that everything slides out. And then you can rebuild the whole thing or pick up a used one from someone on this post.
I have found that it just takes patience and persistence to get the assembly to come apart. At a minimum, you are going to need to clean the bore and replace the two piston seals. It is very likely the bore may need to be re-sleeved.
Good luck,
Dale
> I have
> the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, > the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is > completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to > use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this > thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of > days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the > piston?
> Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to > round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I > remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> Thanks.
-
Matthew Trtan
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:51 pm
Re: master cylinder rebuild effort
Thanks guys. That'll keep me going for now. Like you said Dan, lots of patience.
Matthew Trtan AAIA LEED AP
Matthew Trtan AAIA LEED AP
On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Dan Vann wrote:
This is the question I've been waiting for! ..... or moreso the answer !!!
I've got a stuck piston too, though have been able to remove about everything that could be removed with the aid of penetrating fluid .....and PATIENCE!
I've had sucess with ~HEAT~ and tapping it upside down on a block of wood in the past....
or you can drill a hole in the end, push out the piston, thread the hole and plug it with a small short bolt and compression washer (I think the Honda gurus approve of this method as a last resort!?)
And most recently, I replaced all the parts and pieces, hooked it up to the rear brake hose with an extra rear brake line I have, and tryed to use the hydrolic pressure of the brake system to back out the piston...... . but that didn't work :/
So try heating the cylinder and knocking it upsidedown on a block of wood -
enough heat that still won't burn your hand and enough knock that don't hurt your hand!
Keep it soaking.... while you wait for others to reply. You will have to remove almost everything eventually to properly clean and clear all the little port hole for the fluid to flow properly.
....and sorry for the venacular, I don't have my manual here to properly identify all the misc elements
Dan
--- On
Sun, 2/21/10, trtlepnther21
From: trtlepnther21 hotmail.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
> To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 9:01 PM
> I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the piston?
> Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> Thanks.
Re: master cylinder rebuild effort
Try soaking it in warm water. Make sure you pull the bleeder screws, bolts, and everything that bolts on to the Master Cylinder. After soaking I fold up a junk towel and lay it on the ground and lightly tap it down on the towel till the internals work there way out. That is what I do, you never want to stick anything in the Master cylinder as you can risk damaging internal parts/seals. I have taken over a dozen Master Cylinders apart. The towel is to keep from damaging the Master Cylinder.
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "trtlepnther21" wrote:
> I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the piston?
> Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> Thanks.
master cylinder rebuild effort
All;
Dale has said one way of removing the pistons, and it will work.
But w hy waste the brake fluid? DOT3 is made to absorb moisture and it has dried out changing it to a crystallized DOT3 fluid. I use a bucket of clear water and do much the same as he suggested.
Only; after opening all the screws, bolts and fittings to allow the water to get in (for an hour or two). To remove the pistons, I leaving the end clip and washer off the open end and use bolts to cap off every opening but one of the end ones and then just blow it out with compressed air back into the bucket of water. Or, I have used a canvas bag to catch the pistons as they will come out rather abruptly. Digging, picking and banging at things can make a mess and even damage the cylinder or pistons. And, if the pistons come out right I have had some success of using the seals again. (It depended a lot on "IF" the crystals had cut into the rubber).
And don't forget; there is a small bleed-back hole in both of the reservoir inlets (one is larger than the other) that will need to be opened with a sharp object or very small drill.
Always take pictures, notes, draw diagrams of how things go back together. Even the check-valves (I use a small magnet to get them out) are different for the front or rear brake systems. The pistons will have to come apart, measure them to make sure they are the proper length when you put everything back together. When assembling the master cylinder use a lubricant, DOT3 will work, but I like Barryman Assembly Lube.
Contact them at info@...
to ask about it.
Bill
Dale has said one way of removing the pistons, and it will work.
But w hy waste the brake fluid? DOT3 is made to absorb moisture and it has dried out changing it to a crystallized DOT3 fluid. I use a bucket of clear water and do much the same as he suggested.
Only; after opening all the screws, bolts and fittings to allow the water to get in (for an hour or two). To remove the pistons, I leaving the end clip and washer off the open end and use bolts to cap off every opening but one of the end ones and then just blow it out with compressed air back into the bucket of water. Or, I have used a canvas bag to catch the pistons as they will come out rather abruptly. Digging, picking and banging at things can make a mess and even damage the cylinder or pistons. And, if the pistons come out right I have had some success of using the seals again. (It depended a lot on "IF" the crystals had cut into the rubber).
And don't forget; there is a small bleed-back hole in both of the reservoir inlets (one is larger than the other) that will need to be opened with a sharp object or very small drill.
Always take pictures, notes, draw diagrams of how things go back together. Even the check-valves (I use a small magnet to get them out) are different for the front or rear brake systems. The pistons will have to come apart, measure them to make sure they are the proper length when you put everything back together. When assembling the master cylinder use a lubricant, DOT3 will work, but I like Barryman Assembly Lube.
Contact them at info@...
to ask about it.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > goinhm@...
> Sent:
> Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:28
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
> Here are my suggestions (I'm sure you will see
> others)..... .
> 1) remove as many of the fittings on it as possible (the section > where the brake reservoirs are connected and the stop light switches and > anything else you can remove
> 2) soak in brake fluid (I have seen others mention warm water > but I use brake fluid)
> 3) remove the bolt at the very front (and side) of the
> MC (it has a 10 mm head) and remove the circlip at the rear of the MC > which holds the pistons in place. Try using a small pin driver or > screwdriver through the hole in the front (where you removed the 10mm bolt) to > push the piston assembly free.
> 4) If this doesn't work (and it may not since the piston
> assembly is spring loaded), let it soak for several days and then try > slamming the rear section against a piece of wood. You can also try > tapping on the MC with a plastic mallet to set up some vibrations which may > free things up (don't hit it with a metal hammer.... you don't want to damage > the MC). If you had access to an ultrasonic cleaner, this could be > helpful.
> If it doesn't come free, let it soak some more and every day try > slamming it against the wooden block. You can also heat the MC with a > heat gun or hair dryer (If you use a propane torch, you need > to be very careful).
> If you still cannot get it free, you may need to accept that even > if you do get the assembly to come out, the entire cylinder is going to > need rebuilding (re-sleeve the cylinder, replace all the seals, > replacing any of the other components which are damaged). This is where > it can get expensive. Miles may still be selling the > seals.
> When it gets to this point where nothing is working, you can heat > up the MC until the seals and the dried brake fluid (it turns into a compound > which reminds me of dried rubber cement) are hot enough that everything > slides out. And then you can rebuild the whole thing or pick up a used > one from someone on this post.
> I have found that it just takes patience and persistence to get the > assembly to come apart. At a minimum, you are going to need to > clean the bore and replace the two piston seals. It is very likely the > bore may need to be re-sleeved.
> Good luck,
> Dale
> > I have the MC out
> > and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid > > had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely > > depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too > > much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing > > apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days?
> > Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the > > piston?
> > Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to > > round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I > > remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> > Thanks.
-
Kevin Gailey
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 12:17 pm
Tires in NorCal
I am in Sacramento and can't find tires. I know minimania has them, but for 89.95 plus shipping. Performance tire has them for 57.95 in southern California, but they are out of stock. Any place I could drive to? I would even go to San Francisco.
Kevin Gailey
Kevin Gailey
Re: Tires in NorCal
Buy Kuhmo tires. If you can find them also.
�
Greg
�
Greg
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Kevin Gailey
�
> I am in Sacramento and can't find tires.� I know minimania has them, but for 89.95 plus shipping.� Performance tire has them for 57.95 in southern California, but they are out of stock.� Any place I could drive to?� I would even go to San Francisco.
> Kevin Gailey
> From:
> "
> billmyong@...
> " billmyong@...
> To:
> Anzhonda600owners anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> >;
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Sun, February 21, 2010 11:51:55 PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
> �
> All;
> �
> Dale has said one way of removing the pistons, and it will work.� But�w > hy waste the brake fluid?� DOT3 is made to absorb moisture and it has dried out changing it to a crystallized DOT3 fluid.� I use a bucket of clear water and do much the same as he suggested.� Only;�after opening all the screws, bolts and fittings to allow the water to get in (for an hour or two).�� To remove the pistons,�I�leaving the end clip and washer off the open end and use bolts to cap off every opening but one of the end ones and then just blow it out with compressed air back into the bucket of water.� Or, I have used a canvas bag to catch the pistons as they will come out rather abruptly.�� Digging, picking and banging at things can make a mess and even damage the cylinder or pistons.� And, if the pistons come out right I have had some success of using the seals again.� (It depended a lot on "IF" the crystals had cut into the rubber).�
> �
> �� And don't forget;� there is a small bleed-back hole in both of the reservoir inlets (one�is larger than the other)�that will need to be opened with a sharp object or very small drill.�
> �
> Always�take pictures, notes, draw diagrams of how things go back together.� Even the check-valves (I use a small magnet to get them out) are different for the front or rear brake systems.� The pistons will have to come apart, measure them to make sure they are the proper length when you put everything back together.� When assembling the master cylinder�use a lubricant, DOT3 will work, but I like�Barryman Assembly Lube.� �
> �
> Contact them at�
> info@berrymanproduc ts.com
> to ask about it.
> �
> Bill
> �
> �
> �
> �
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:
> > 2cylinderho
> > ndas@yahoogroups .com]
> > On Behalf Of
> > goinhm@...
> > Sent:
> > Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:28 PM
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject:
> > Re: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
> > �
> > Here�are my suggestions (I'm sure you will see others)..... .
> > �
> > 1)� remove as many of the fittings on it as possible (the section where the brake reservoirs are connected and the stop light switches and anything else you can remove
> > �
> > 2)� soak in brake fluid� (I have seen others mention warm water but I use brake fluid)
> > �
> > 3)� remove the bolt at the very front (and side)�of the MC� (it has a 10 mm head) and remove the circlip at the rear of the MC which holds the pistons in place.�� Try using a small pin driver or screwdriver through the hole in the front (where you removed the 10mm bolt) to push the piston assembly free.
> > �
> > 4)� If this doesn't work (and it may not since the�piston assembly is spring loaded),� let it soak for several days and then try slamming the rear section�against a piece of wood.� You can also try tapping on the MC with a plastic mallet to set up some vibrations which may free things up (don't hit it with a metal hammer.... you don't want to damage the MC).� If you had access to an ultrasonic cleaner,� this could be helpful.
> > �
> > If it doesn't come free,� let it soak some more and every day try slamming it against the wooden block.� You can also heat the MC with a heat gun or hair dryer� (If you use a propane� torch,� you need to be very careful).��
> > �
> > If you still cannot get it free,� you may need to accept that even if you do get the assembly to come out,� the entire cylinder is going to need rebuilding (re-sleeve the cylinder,� replace all the seals,� replacing any of the other components which are damaged).� This is where it can get expensive.� Miles�may still be�selling the seals.�
> > �
> > When it gets to this point where nothing is working,� you can heat up the MC until the seals and the dried brake fluid (it turns into a compound which reminds me of dried rubber cement)� are hot enough that everything slides out.� And then you can rebuild the whole thing or pick up a used one from someone on this post.
> > �
> > I have found that it just takes patience and persistence to get the assembly to come apart.� At a minimum,� you are going to need to clean the bore and replace the two piston seals.� It is very likely the bore may need to be re-sleeved.
> > �
> > Good luck,
> > Dale
> > > I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the piston?
> > > Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> > > Thanks.
> > �
--
Professional Isetta Restorations
Re: master cylinder rebuild effort
Matt,
After beating and banging every day for a week...... I tried the "hot water" suggestion and it was out in less than an hour!
But you still have to have the bleeders and as much of the other attachments removed in order for the water to get at the dried brake fluid inside.
good luck
Dan
After beating and banging every day for a week...... I tried the "hot water" suggestion and it was out in less than an hour!
But you still have to have the bleeders and as much of the other attachments removed in order for the water to get at the dried brake fluid inside.
good luck
Dan
--- On
Sun, 2/21/10, Matthew Trtan
wrote:
From: Matthew Trtan
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort To: "2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com" Cc: "2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com" Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:31 PM
Thanks guys. That'll keep me going for now. Like you said Dan, lots of patience.
Matthew Trtan
AAIA LEED AP
On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Dan Vann wrote:
> This is the question I've been waiting for! ..... or moreso the answer !!!
> I've got a stuck piston too, though have been able to remove about everything that could be removed with the aid of penetrating fluid .....and PATIENCE!
> I've had sucess with ~HEAT~ and tapping it upside down on a block of wood in the past....
> or you can drill a hole in the end, push out the piston, thread the hole and plug it with a small short bolt and compression washer (I think the Honda gurus approve of this method as a last resort!?)
> And most recently, I replaced all the parts and pieces, hooked it up to the rear brake hose with an extra rear brake line I have, and tryed to use the hydrolic pressure of the brake system to back out the piston...... . but that didn't work :/
> So try heating the cylinder and knocking it upsidedown on a block of wood -
> enough heat that still won't burn your hand and enough knock that don't hurt your hand!
> Keep it soaking.... while you wait for others to reply. You will have to remove almost everything eventually to properly clean and clear all the little port hole for the fluid to flow properly.
> ....and sorry for the venacular, I don't have my manual here to properly identify all the misc elements
> Dan
> --- On
> Sun, 2/21/10, trtlepnther21
> hotmail.com
> wrote:
> > From: trtlepnther21 > hotmail.com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort > > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 9:01 PM
> > I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the piston?
> > Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> > Thanks.
-
Daniel Middleton
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:37 am
Re: Tires in SoCal
I found the tires by khumo...26.95 each at a local tire store and 10.00 each for mount and balance too...
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com