Splitting N600 crankshaft yourself ?

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:46 am

I should appreciate any input concerning gaining access to con rod big ends & inner shaft bearings. Has anybody tried to do this themselves ?
With thanks, Marshall.

zinc2u · Post by **zinc2u** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:32 pm

Hi Marshall,
The crankshaft is pressed together. If you do not have your own hydraulic press, you will need to take it to a machine shop or a motorcycle shop. Most crank problems are located in the area of the connecting rods and the journal which the conn rod goes around. I am not aware of any replacement conn rods. I have repaired the cranks by taking 2 cranks apart (each crank had a bad side), sorting out the good pieces, and reassemble the crank. If you do it yourself, start by practicing on the bad side. The first time I did it myself, I started on the good side and ended up cracking a good conn rod because I was not properly aligned on the crank (it really bummed me out that I wasted a perfectly good conn rod).
The Honda crankshafts were pressed together to keep manufacturing costs to a minimum. A nice improvement would be a connecting rod which is bolted on and of compact design. A good example would be the connecting rods found on a 2-cycle marine motor (e.g.
Evinrude, Johnson). It would still use the roller bearing design but would be easy to replace. Unfortunately, I have not found any marine connecting rods of the correct dimensions.
good luck,
Dale

> I
> should appreciate any input concerning gaining access to con rod big ends > & inner shaft bearings. Has anybody tried to do this themselves > ?
> With thanks,
> Marshall.

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:09 pm

Many thanks for your reply Dale. I'm in a similar situation...... I am going to try & build a useable unit from two. repressing again is going to be interesting as far as alignment is concerned.

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Marshall,
> The crankshaft is pressed together. If you do not have your own
> hydraulic press, you will need to take it to a machine shop or a motorcycle
> shop. Most crank problems are located in the area of the connecting rods and
> the journal which the conn rod goes around. I am not aware of any
> replacement conn rods. I have repaired the cranks by taking 2 cranks apart (each
> crank had a bad side), sorting out the good pieces, and reassemble the
> crank. If you do it yourself, start by practicing on the bad side. The
> first time I did it myself, I started on the good side and ended up cracking a
> good conn rod because I was not properly aligned on the crank (it really
> bummed me out that I wasted a perfectly good conn rod).
> The Honda crankshafts were pressed together to keep manufacturing
> costs to a minimum. A nice improvement would be a connecting rod which is
> bolted on and of compact design. A good example would be the connecting rods
> found on a 2-cycle marine motor (e.g. Evinrude, Johnson). It would still
> use the roller bearing design but would be easy to replace. Unfortunately,
> I have not found any marine connecting rods of the correct dimensions.
> good luck,
> Dale
> I should appreciate any input concerning gaining access to con rod big
> ends & inner shaft bearings. Has anybody tried to do this themselves ?
> With thanks, Marshall.

Daniel Middleton · Post by **Daniel Middleton** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:13 pm

wait till you try to realigned the shafts, youll have to be within .0001" tolerance or the crank will be not aligned on the C/L...motorcycle shops can do this on old 2/stokes...at home, good luck...
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
From: marshall_waugh@...
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:08:44 +0000
Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Splitting N600 crankshaft yourself ?
Many thanks for your reply Dale. I'm in a similar situation... ... I am going to try & build a useable unit from two. repressing again is going to be interesting as far as alignment is concerned.

--- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Marshall,
> The crankshaft is pressed together. If you do not have your own > hydraulic press, you will need to take it to a machine shop or a motorcycle > shop. Most crank problems are located in the area of the connecting rods and > the journal which the conn rod goes around. I am not aware of any > replacement conn rods. I have repaired the cranks by taking 2 cranks apart (each > crank had a bad side), sorting out the good pieces, and reassemble the > crank. If you do it yourself, start by practicing on the bad side. The > first time I did it myself, I started on the good side and ended up cracking a > good conn rod because I was not properly aligned on the crank (it really > bummed me out that I wasted a perfectly good conn rod).
> The Honda crankshafts were pressed together to keep manufacturing > costs to a minimum. A nice improvement would be a connecting rod which is > bolted on and of compact design. A good example would be the connecting rods > found on a 2-cycle marine motor (e.g. Evinrude, Johnson). It would still > use the roller bearing design but would be easy to replace. Unfortunately, > I have not found any marine connecting rods of the correct dimensions.
> good luck,
> Dale
> I should appreciate any input concerning gaining access to con rod big > ends & inner shaft bearings. Has anybody tried to do this themselves ?
> With thanks, Marshall.

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bruceb · Post by **bruceb** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:05 pm

Please let me know where you find that tolerance call out. What manual says that? .0001 runout is unheard of. I think you are mistaken. Bruce

Zay J. Speed · Post by **Zay J. Speed** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:46 pm

Hi Crank shaft splitters
Check with "Falacon" crank shaft rebuilders of Florida, also "Hot Rod" connecting rods. and Wisco Pistons they have lots of rods & pistons & bearings big & small
crank shaft rebuilding at home WOW what's the world coming to!

friend · Post by **friend** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:36 am

�
Bruce;
Both Dan and Dale are not kidding. None of us are trying to discourage, just laying out the facts.
I too have tried to splice a crankshaft together. Tolerance is very close and because Honda had 10 different sizes of roller bearing used in the connecting rods along with shaft sizes, it may take more than 2 crankshafts to make a good one. I went through 8 to find enough good parts to make a single usable crankshaft. Finding a shop that will take on the task is another chore. I believe Miles has some pictures of the problems you can run into on his page.
Pages 4-40 through 4-42 of the Honda 360/400/600 Sedan & Van Shop Manual hold some of the tolerances for adjustments that can be made.
Bottom line is the crank shaft I tried to get back together never got to the point where I was willing to put it in an engine.
Bill

Daniel Middleton · Post by **Daniel Middleton** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:06 pm

What were talking about is roller bearing crankshafts. not babbits...the crank has to be perfectly aligned or it will tear itself apart from vibration, and Im not talking about balancing yet...Ive rebuilt many a motorcycle engines and though this is not in any specs book Ive ever seen, you want this tolerance or the engine wont last...basically the Honda 600/360 engines were based on a motorcycle twin 4-stoke platform, English twins I think...have fun
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
From: brucerb@...
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 02:05:32 +0000
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Splitting N600 crankshaft yourself ?
Please let me know where you find that tolerance call out. What manual says that? .0001 runout is unheard of. I think you are mistaken. Bruce

feltonminicycle · Post by **feltonminicycle** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:43 am

Don't forget early sedan cranks have smaller rod ID's than the later cranks. Easily distinguished by a hole bored just above the big end of the rod (early).
Parts between these 2 cranks obviously won't interchange.
Miles

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> Bruce;
> Both Dan and Dale are not kidding. None of us are trying to discourage, just laying out the facts.
> I too have tried to splice a crankshaft together. Tolerance is very close and because Honda had 10 different sizes of roller bearing used in the connecting rods along with shaft sizes, it may take more than 2 crankshafts to make a good one. I went through 8 to find enough good parts to make a single usable crankshaft. Finding a shop that will take on the task is another chore. I believe Miles has some pictures of the problems you can run into on his page.
> Pages 4-40 through 4-42 of the Honda 360/400/600 Sedan & Van Shop Manual hold some of the tolerances for adjustments that can be made.
> Bottom line is the crank shaft I tried to get back together never got to the point where I was willing to put it in an engine.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of brucerb@...
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:06 PM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Splitting N600 crankshaft yourself ?
> Please let me know where you find that tolerance call out. What manual says that? .0001 runout is unheard of. I think you are mistaken. Bruce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Middleton"
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:13:12 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Splitting N600 crankshaft yourself ?
> wait till you try to realigned the shafts, youll have to be within .0001" tolerance or the crank will be not aligned on the C/L...motorcycle shops can do this on old 2/stokes...at home, good luck...
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> From: marshall_waugh@...
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:08:44 +0000
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Splitting N600 crankshaft yourself ?
> Many thanks for your reply Dale. I'm in a similar situation...... I am going to try & build a useable unit from two. repressing again is going to be interesting as far as alignment is concerned.
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@ wrote:
> > Hi Marshall,
> > The crankshaft is pressed together. If you do not have your own
> > hydraulic press, you will need to take it to a machine shop or a motorcycle
> > shop. Most crank problems are located in the area of the connecting rods and
> > the journal which the conn rod goes around. I am not aware of any
> > replacement conn rods. I have repaired the cranks by taking 2 cranks apart (each
> > crank had a bad side), sorting out the good pieces, and reassemble the
> > crank. If you do it yourself, start by practicing on the bad side. The
> > first time I did it myself, I started on the good side and ended up cracking a
> > good conn rod because I was not properly aligned on the crank (it really
> > bummed me out that I wasted a perfectly good conn rod).
> > The Honda crankshafts were pressed together to keep manufacturing
> > costs to a minimum. A nice improvement would be a connecting rod which is
> > bolted on and of compact design. A good example would be the connecting rods
> > found on a 2-cycle marine motor (e.g. Evinrude, Johnson). It would still
> > use the roller bearing design but would be easy to replace. Unfortunately,
> > I have not found any marine connecting rods of the correct dimensions.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > I should appreciate any input concerning gaining access to con rod big
> > ends & inner shaft bearings. Has anybody tried to do this themselves ?
> > With thanks, Marshall.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.

jpro8071 · Post by **jpro8071** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:52 pm

It isn't always that simple. We sent a disassembled crank to Falacon.
Minimum was like 10 or 12 connecting rods to get anything done. And it wasn't cheap. I'm sure it was quality - don't get me wrong, they are experts in the area. But finding off-the-shelf parts isn't always that easy.

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "Zay J. Speed" wrote:
> Hi Crank shaft splitters
> Check with "Falacon" crank shaft rebuilders of Florida, also "Hot Rod" connecting rods. and Wisco Pistons they have lots of rods & pistons & bearings big & small
> crank shaft rebuilding at home WOW what's the world coming to!