intermittant loss of power

[Colin]

My 600's engine is cutting in and out very suddenly as I drive. It
feels like an ignition system problem, just like if someone were
turning off and on the key while driving. I have checked just about
everything I could. I have new points and condensor gapped perfect,
good breaker plate, changed the coil with no improvement. I know for
a fact that I am getting constant power at the coil even when the
problem exists. I did notice that the camshaft floats side to side
quite a bit while the engine is running. Even though I new to fix
that, I don't think that's the reason for it cutting out. Let me know
what you think,
Colin

[zinc2u]

Hi Colin,
Lots of things could be causing the problem which you are experiencing.
Have you tried replacing the spark plugs? And have you tried using 2 spark
plugs with the threaded part grounded to the engine block, crank the engine,
and observe the spark in the gap on the two plugs. The amount of spark
should be the same on each plug.
Some questions/comments for you;
1) does the problem occur if the car is not moving and you hold the rpms are
different speeds?
2) does the problem occur only when moving? If so, is it worse if you are
going uphill?
3) have you checked the fuel system? A defective fuel pump could also cause
your problem.
4) intermittent wiring could cause the problem. You mentioned you knew you
had power on the coil. Were you checking the primary side of the coil? Did
you check the secondary side?
5) What is the compression reading on your two cylinders?
6) The high voltage wiring to the spark plugs runs along the metal chassis
of the car. If you are getting some high voltage arcing from the cabling to
the chassis, you can get your cut-out. You may want to move the wiring
away from the metal and check for cracks or wiring problems. Electrical
tape can help you insulate problem areas.
7) Make sure the bolt which attaches the coil to the car's frame is making a
good ground connection.
Those are my ideas at the moment. If I get more information, I can give you
some more areas to investigate.
good luck,
Dale

> My 600's engine is cutting in and out very suddenly as I drive. It
> feels like an ignition system problem, just like if someone were
> turning off and on the key while driving. I have checked just about
> everything I could. I have new points and condensor gapped perfect,
> good breaker plate, changed the coil with no improvement. I know for
> a fact that I am getting constant power at the coil even when the
> problem exists. I did notice that the camshaft floats side to side
> quite a bit while the engine is running. Even though I new to fix
> that, I don't think that's the reason for it cutting out. Let me know
> what you think,
> Colin

[Colin]

Thanks for your help, here is what I have found so far.--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com, goinhm@a... wrote:

> Hi Colin,
> Lots of things could be causing the problem which you are experiencing.
> Have you tried replacing the spark plugs? And have you tried using 2 spark
> plugs with the threaded part grounded to the engine block, crank the engine,
> and observe the spark in the gap on the two plugs. The amount of spark
> should be the same on each plug.
> Some questions/comments for you; HERE IS YOUR ANSWERS
> 1) does the problem occur if the car is not moving and you hold the rpms are
> different speeds? NO, THE PROBLEM NEVER HAPPENS WHILE AT IDLE OR

WHILE I REV IT, SMOOTH AT ALL THROTTLE POSITIONS (WHILE CAR IS
STATIONARY).

> 2) does the problem occur only when moving? If so, is it worse if you are
> going uphill? YES, WHILE DRIVING, BUT IT HAPPENS NO MATTER WHAT THE

LOAD CONDITION (LIGHT THROTTLE, FULL THROTTLE, STILL CUTS OUT AND
BACK IN)

> 3) have you checked the fuel system? A defective fuel pump could also cause
> your problem.I AM DIVING INTO THE FUEL SYSTEM RIGHT NOW. FUEL PUMP

SEEMS FINE. IT PUTS OUT 2-2.5 PSI AND HAS LOTS OF FLOW (GAS SPRAYING
EVERYWHERE). PUMP SEEMS TO ONLY RUN WHEN FUEL PRESSURE IS NEEDED
(COOL). I HAVE MANY SPARE CARBS. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
CARB WITH THE ALUMINUM TOP COVER AND THE CARB WITH THE LARGE STEEL
TOP COVER. WHICH ONE SHOULD I RUN?

> 4) intermittent wiring could cause the problem. You mentioned you knew you
> had power on the coil. Were you checking the primary side of the coil? Did
> you check the secondary side? I HAVE PRETTY MUCH RULED OUT THE

IGNION SYSTEM AS A FACTOR. I DID CHANGE THE PLUGS, CLEANED THE COIL
MOUNT, INSPECTED THE POINTS AND PRIMARY WIRING, SECONDARY PLUG WIRES
ARE LIKE NEW. AS A TEST, I DROVE WITH MY INDUCTIVE TIMING LIGHT ON
ONE PLUG WIRE, AS THE CAR LOST POWER AND RESTORED POWER, THE TIMING
LIGHT FLASHES NEVER MISSED A BEAT. TIME TO LOOK AT THE ENGINE
MECHANICAL.

> 5) What is the compression reading on your two cylinders? HERE IS

THE RESULTS OF MY TEST. PSI READING (AT OPERATING TEMP WITH WIDE OPEN
THROTTLE) #1 - 120 PSI, #2- 110 PSI. I ADDED A LITTLE OIL TO CYLINDER
#2 AND THE READING CAME UP TO 120 PSI. WHAT SHOULD THE READING BE? AS
FAR AS I CAN TELL, THE RINGS ARE NOT SEALING PERFECT, BUT I DON'T
THINK THESE READING ARE TWO BAD FOR WHAT IT IS.

> 6) The high voltage wiring to the spark plugs runs along the metal chassis
> of the car. If you are getting some high voltage arcing from the cabling to
> the chassis, you can get your cut-out. You may want to move the wiring
> away from the metal and check for cracks or wiring problems. Electrical
> tape can help you insulate problem areas. THIS ISN'T THE PROBLEM,

THE WIRES AND PLUG INSULATORS ARE LIKE NEW. WITH THE CAR RUNNING,I
CAN RUN MY WET FINGERS DOWN THE WIRES WITHOUT HAVING TO HIT MY HEAD
ON THE UNDERSIDE IF THE HOOD.

> 7) Make sure the bolt which attaches the coil to the car's frame is making a
> good ground connection. DONE, CLEANED IT, BUT THE COIL DOSN'T NEED

TO BE GROUNDED, ITS CIRCUIT GETS COMPLETED WHEN THE POINTS MAKE AND
BREAK IT'S PATH TO GROUND. WHEN THE POINTS OPEN, THE COILS MAGNETIC
FIELD COLAPSES, THUS ENDUCING IT'S FIELD INTO THE COIL'S SECONDERY
WINDINGS. THE GROUND FOR THE SECORDARY PART OF THE CURCUIT IS THE
SPARK PLUG'S TREADED AREA.

> Those are my ideas at the moment. If I get more information, I can give you
> some more areas to investigate.
> good luck,
> Dale

THANKS DALE, YOU KNOW YOUR STUFF WELL. I WILL BE HANGING THE CARB
NEXT. I WILL LET YOU KNOW HOW IT GOES.

> > My 600's engine is cutting in and out very suddenly as I drive. It
> > feels like an ignition system problem, just like if someone were
> > turning off and on the key while driving. I have checked just about
> > everything I could. I have new points and condensor gapped perfect,
> > good breaker plate, changed the coil with no improvement. I know for
> > a fact that I am getting constant power at the coil even when the
> > problem exists. I did notice that the camshaft floats side to side
> > quite a bit while the engine is running. Even though I new to fix
> > that, I don't think that's the reason for it cutting out. Let me know
> > what you think,
> > Colin

[tmruwart]

Hi Colin,
I recently had a problem starting my 600 and I accidentally
discovered that the bolt that holds the negative/ground cable to the
engine was stripped and I *think* that may have caused my starting
problems. It is simple to check and is not obvious by just looking at
it. Here is the text of a recent message that I posted about
my "starter problem":
Remember the problem I mentioned last week about the wiring harness
and the starting problem with my 72 600 coupe? Well, I was poking
around under the hood today and I noticed a loose bolt on the left
side of the engine. This is the bolt that fastens the ground cable
from the battery to the engine. There is also a BIG rubber gromet and
the left-heat shield. So I got out my trusty 10mm socket and
attempted to tighten it up but noticed that it was stripped out.
Hmmm.... I says to myself. Given the looseness of this connection,
could it be that *ocasionally* this causes a faulty ground or an
insufficicent ground for my stater to misbehave? Possible. I pulled
out the bolt and retapped it to 1/4-20 and put in a new bolt making
certain that all the bolts and washers are making good contact so
that I get a good ground. Now we wait and see.
I think this bolt loosened itself up and vibrated itself to the point
where it stripped the threads in the hole. The bolt itself was fine.
Given that the hole was stripped, the bolt was pretty loose, and the
contact with the cable was marginal at best, I would give this a high
probability of being the culprit. Time will tell....
<<<
A more detailed description of the problem is in the messages that
talk about a Wiring Harness problem.
Hope that helps.
-Tom

[Colin]

Tom, thanks for the input. Happens though I read your earlier post
and took it to hart. I cleaned my battery posts and replaced my
postive cable, all the connections (including the one on the engine)
check out. Thanks agian,
Colin
(trying to figure out which carb to try next)
--- In anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com, "tmruwart"
wrote:

> Hi Colin,
> I recently had a problem starting my 600 and I accidentally
> discovered that the bolt that holds the negative/ground cable to the
> engine was stripped and I *think* that may have caused my starting
> problems. It is simple to check and is not obvious by just looking at
> it. Here is the text of a recent message that I posted about
> my "starter problem":
> Remember the problem I mentioned last week about the wiring harness
> and the starting problem with my 72 600 coupe? Well, I was poking
> around under the hood today and I noticed a loose bolt on the left
> side of the engine. This is the bolt that fastens the ground cable
> from the battery to the engine. There is also a BIG rubber gromet and
> the left-heat shield. So I got out my trusty 10mm socket and
> attempted to tighten it up but noticed that it was stripped out.
> Hmmm.... I says to myself. Given the looseness of this connection,
> could it be that *ocasionally* this causes a faulty ground or an
> insufficicent ground for my stater to misbehave? Possible. I pulled
> out the bolt and retapped it to 1/4-20 and put in a new bolt making
> certain that all the bolts and washers are making good contact so
> that I get a good ground. Now we wait and see.
> I think this bolt loosened itself up and vibrated itself to the point
> where it stripped the threads in the hole. The bolt itself was fine.
> Given that the hole was stripped, the bolt was pretty loose, and the
> contact with the cable was marginal at best, I would give this a high
> probability of being the culprit. Time will tell....
> A more detailed description of the problem is in the messages that
> talk about a Wiring Harness problem.
> Hope that helps.
> -Tom
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Colin"
> wrote:
> > My 600's engine is cutting in and out very suddenly as I drive. It
> > feels like an ignition system problem, just like if someone were
> > turning off and on the key while driving. I have checked just about
> > everything I could. I have new points and condensor gapped perfect,
> > good breaker plate, changed the coil with no improvement. I know
> for
> > a fact that I am getting constant power at the coil even when the
> > problem exists. I did notice that the camshaft floats side to side
> > quite a bit while the engine is running. Even though I new to fix
> > that, I don't think that's the reason for it cutting out. Let me
> know
> > what you think,
> > Colin

[dealadayray]

Hi Colin;
It sounds like just as you said ignition. Using a ohm tester, check
the plugs, the ends of the wires, the plug wires should connect, so should
the Blue wire and black on the coil. Then check your ground. Something is
not right. Next put your hand under the carb and feel if it is wet, you
diaphragm may be leaking. But I will bet it is one of your plugs. Or the
high tension wire ends to the plugs. Are they screwed in tight, is the wire
that catches the threads of the plug lose or even broken?
It sounds like a challenge, wish I was there.
Bill

[Colin]

Well Bill, I think I have it fixed. I just drove it and it seemed to
run well. I ended up having to move the timing chain one tooth. I
don't know if moving the chain one tooth fixed the problem, or if it
was just the fact that I had to tear down the distributor ( I think
it was something in the dis).
Bill (or anyone), I do have a couple of technical questions.
I can't get my upper timing mark to set dead center of the bearing
notch. I'm sure it's my chain's fault. Would I be better off having
the cam mark slightly forward or slightly back?
My camshaft walks back and forth slightly as the car runs. I measured
the play and it was less than 1/8 inch movement. Is it just the
nature of the car for the cam to float alittle, or should I machine
some shims to take up space between the shaft and endcap.
What should the compression of a healthy 600 engine be? Mine was 110
and 120, is that in the ballpark?
Thanks for your advise,
Colin
P.s. I saw that carb diaphram that you mentioned, it's crazy looking.
Is that how it meters fuel mixture? I have both the diaphram and
plunger style carbs, which one would run better?

[dealadayray]

Hi Colin;
No, what you have is a stretched cam chain. The only thing that will
fix it is a new one.
Bill

[Colin]

Yes Bill, I know you are right. It's time, I thing that that ticking
sound in my engine is actually the chain slapping around. How sound I
go about getting a new chain?
Thanks,
Colin

[LewetagK]

Colin
You can have one link removed to save the chain. Mine had a master link so I could do it myself. HOWEVER. I installed an oil pressure gauge in my 600 a low and behold I had an oil pressure problem at the same time I heard the noise so it may NOT be the chain but the oil pressure.
Ken
*******************************
Yes Bill, I know you are right. It's time, I thing that that ticking
sound in my engine is actually the chain slapping around. How sound I
go about getting a new chain?
Thanks,
Colin