Valve Lash Caps

[lyletrudell]

I have a hard time staying focused on one project, we have to stay on topic or solving a problem is harder.
Bill has posted in the past about Lash caps. A great way to solve the clearance issue.
Lyle

> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with great success.
> > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm eccentric to
> > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you know what
> > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and measure with a
> > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open or High
> > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm. Then measure
> > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding to make them
> > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size (thickness) of
> > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve train and
> > check for fit and adjustment.
> > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to make the
> > valves much quieter.
> > Bill

[lyletrudell]

Hi Marshall, if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312" dia tool steel .250" long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about .225" deep. This would leave a .025" wall.
Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the top surface.
Then do what Bill said about checking clearance. Grind valve ends to get the clearance in the middle of the travel of the rocker arm eccentric.
Lyle

> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with great success.
> > > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm eccentric to
> > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you know what
> > > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and measure with a
> > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open or High
> > > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm. Then measure
> > > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding to make them
> > > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size (thickness) of
> > > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve train and
> > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to make the
> > > valves much quieter.
> > > Bill

[Marshall]

Sounds good to me Lyle.
I'm showing my ignorance concerning Automobile engines when I say all my mechanical experience has been gained in Marine Engineering. Medium speed auxillary & Main Propulsion Diesel Engines. A Roto-cap was found on certain engines. As the name suggests, the valve kicked a few degrees in rotation on each return. Is this present on any Automobile engines ?

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Hi Marshall, if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312" dia tool steel .250" long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about .225" deep. This would leave a .025" wall.
> Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the top surface.
> Then do what Bill said about checking clearance. Grind valve ends to get the clearance in the middle of the travel of the rocker arm eccentric.
> Lyle
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with great success.
> > > > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm eccentric to
> > > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you know what
> > > > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and measure with a
> > > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open or High
> > > > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm. Then measure
> > > > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding to make them
> > > > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size (thickness) of
> > > > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve train and
> > > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to make the
> > > > valves much quieter.
> > > > Bill

[lyletrudell]

Marshall, diverse experience with mechanical things is the key to solving our Honda repair problems.
Wow, Marine engineering, we need to put your knowledge to use!
We do have a skilled group of club members.
Not sure what a roto-cap is? But it sounds simular to what we are working on.
I will put out an idea/design that I dream up, you won't hurt my feelings if you don't like it or make changes to it.
The more time we spend brain storming, the better chance we have of not screwing up the part.... I hate to make things over.
We also have to keep costs down, this is a hobby.
This Honda project is a lot more complex of a rebuild than I thought it would be.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> Sounds good to me Lyle.
> I'm showing my ignorance concerning Automobile engines when I say all my mechanical experience has been gained in Marine Engineering. Medium speed auxillary & Main Propulsion Diesel Engines. A Roto-cap was found on certain engines. As the name suggests, the valve kicked a few degrees in rotation on each return. Is this present on any Automobile engines ?
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Hi Marshall, if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312" dia tool steel .250" long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about .225" deep. This would leave a .025" wall.
> > Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the top surface.
> > Then do what Bill said about checking clearance. Grind valve ends to get the clearance in the middle of the travel of the rocker arm eccentric.
> > Lyle
> > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > > > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with great success.
> > > > > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm eccentric to
> > > > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you know what
> > > > > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and measure with a
> > > > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open or High
> > > > > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm. Then measure
> > > > > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding to make them
> > > > > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size (thickness) of
> > > > > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve train and
> > > > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > > > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to make the
> > > > > valves much quieter.
> > > > > Bill

[blake neilson]

Plenty of auto engines have used them.  Some take the place of the retainer and some are used under the valve spring in the spring pocket.  I favor the latter as they are heavier than a simple retainer and so when used in place of a retainer add a lot of mass to the moving parts of the valve train.
Blake

--- On
Sun, 7/11/10, Marshall

wrote:
> From: Marshall
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Valve Lash Caps
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, July 11, 2010, 10:00 AM
> Sounds good to me Lyle.
> I'm showing my ignorance concerning Automobile engines when I say all my mechanical experience has been gained in Marine Engineering. Medium speed auxillary & Main Propulsion Diesel Engines. A Roto-cap was found on certain engines. As the name suggests, the valve kicked a few degrees in rotation on each return. Is this present on any Automobile engines ?
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Hi Marshall, if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312" dia tool steel .250" long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about .225" deep. This would leave a .025" wall.
> > Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the top surface.
> > Then do what Bill said about checking clearance. Grind valve ends to get the clearance in the middle of the travel of the rocker arm eccentric.
> > Lyle
> > > > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , wrote:
> > > > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with great success.
> > > > > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm eccentric to
> > > > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you know what
> > > > > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and measure with a
> > > > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open or High
> > > > > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm. Then measure
> > > > > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding to make them
> > > > > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size (thickness) of
> > > > > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve train and
> > > > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > > > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to make the
> > > > > valves much quieter.
> > > > > Bill

[lyletrudell]

Hi Blake, I think Marshall was talking about the Steel rod available in the UK. "Silver steel" it's just a tool steel rod that is hardened and ground to an accurate size. We call them drill blanks or reamer blanks in the USA.
Very common, I use them all the time for fixturing and tooling.
So the caps like Bill talked about are the cheapest and easiest way to fix this?
Our valve stem diameter checks 6.6mm or (.260") whatever that size is!
How can we use a Ford 11/32"(.343")diameter cap?
Plus the Ford cap has a (.050-.080") thick wall, we need about (.020")?
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, blake neilson wrote:
> Plenty of auto engines have used them.  Some take the place of the retainer and some are used under the valve spring in the spring pocket.  I favor the latter as they are heavier than a simple retainer and so when used in place of a retainer add a lot of mass to the moving parts of the valve train.
> Blake
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Hi Marshall, if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312" dia tool steel .250" long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about .225" deep. This would leave a .025" wall.
> > Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the top surface.
> > Then do what Bill said about checking clearance. Grind valve ends to get the clearance in the middle of the travel of the rocker arm eccentric.
> > Lyle
> > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > > > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with great success.
> > > > > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm eccentric to
> > > > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you know what
> > > > > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and measure with a
> > > > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open or High
> > > > > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm. Then measure
> > > > > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding to make them
> > > > > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size (thickness) of
> > > > > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve train and
> > > > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > > > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to make the
> > > > > valves much quieter.
> > > > > Bill

[friend]

Hi Lyle;
I said I think it was a ford cap, and from what you are saying, I most likely am.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> lyletrudell
> Sent:
> Monday, July 12, 2010 7:58 AM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Re:
> Valve Lash Caps
> Hi Blake, I think Marshall was talking about the Steel rod available in the > UK. "Silver steel" it's just a tool steel rod that is hardened and ground to > an accurate size. We call them drill blanks or reamer blanks in the USA.
> Very common, I use them all the time for fixturing and tooling.
> So
> the caps like Bill talked about are the cheapest and easiest way to fix > this?
> Our valve stem diameter checks 6.6mm or (.260") whatever that size > is!
> How can we use a Ford 11/32"(.343")diameter cap?
> Plus the Ford cap
> has a (.050-.080") thick wall, we need about (.020")?
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> blake neilson wrote:
> > Plenty of auto
> engines have used them.�  Some take the place of the retainer and some > are used under the valve spring in the spring pocket.�  I favor the > latter as they are heavier than a simple retainer and so when used in place of > a retainer add a lot of mass to the moving parts of the valve train.
> > Blake
> > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Hi Marshall,
> if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312" dia tool steel .250" > long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about .225" deep. This would > leave a .025" wall.
> > > Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the
> top surface.
> > > Then do what Bill said about checking
> clearance. Grind valve ends to get the clearance in the middle of the travel > of the rocker arm eccentric.
> > > Lyle
> > > > > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> wrote:
> > > > > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam > shafts with great success.
> > > > > > They put back
> the material removed allowing the rocker arm eccentric to
> > > > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How > do you know what
> > > > > > size to use?" I put the
> valve train assembly together and measure with a
> > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open or > High
> > > > > > side giving the most room between
> the cam and the rocker arm. Then measure
> the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding to make > them
> > > > > > all even. This will give you a
> reference to base the size (thickness) of
> the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve train > and
> > > > > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > > > > Lash caps
> allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to make the
> > > > > > valves much quieter.
> > > Bill

[John]

Hi Lyle,
I have used 6.5mm caps from Batten Performance with my reground camshaft. There are some on eBay now.
John

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> Hi Lyle;
> I said I think it was a ford cap, and from what you are saying, I most
> likely am.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of lyletrudell
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 7:58 AM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Valve Lash Caps
> Hi Blake, I think Marshall was talking about the Steel rod available in
> the UK. "Silver steel" it's just a tool steel rod that is hardened and
> ground to an accurate size. We call them drill blanks or reamer blanks in
> the USA.
> Very common, I use them all the time for fixturing and tooling.
> So the caps like Bill talked about are the cheapest and easiest way to fix
> this?
> Our valve stem diameter checks 6.6mm or (.260") whatever that size is!
> How can we use a Ford 11/32"(.343")diameter cap?
> Plus the Ford cap has a (.050-.080") thick wall, we need about (.020")?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, blake neilson
> wrote:
> > Plenty of auto engines have used them.� Some take the place of the
> retainer and some are used under the valve spring in the spring pocket.� I
> favor the latter as they are heavier than a simple retainer and so when used
> in place of a retainer add a lot of mass to the moving parts of the valve
> train.
> > Blake
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> wrote:
> > > Hi Marshall, if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312"
> dia tool steel .250" long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about
> .225" deep. This would leave a .025" wall.
> > > Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the top surface.
> > > Then do what Bill said about checking clearance. Grind valve ends to
> get the clearance in the middle of the travel of the rocker arm eccentric.
> > > Lyle
> > > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > > > > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with
> great success.
> > > > > > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm
> eccentric to
> > > > > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you
> know what
> > > > > > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and
> measure with a
> > > > > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open
> or High
> > > > > > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm.
> Then measure
> > > > > > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding
> to make them
> > > > > > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size
> (thickness) of
> > > > > > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve
> train and
> > > > > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > > > > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to
> make the
> > > > > > valves much quieter.
> > > > > > Bill

[John]

Hi Lyle,
I used Batten Performance 6.5mm lash caps with my reground camshaft. There are some on eBay now.
John

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> Hi Lyle;
> I said I think it was a ford cap, and from what you are saying, I most
> likely am.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of lyletrudell
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 7:58 AM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Valve Lash Caps
> Hi Blake, I think Marshall was talking about the Steel rod available in
> the UK. "Silver steel" it's just a tool steel rod that is hardened and
> ground to an accurate size. We call them drill blanks or reamer blanks in
> the USA.
> Very common, I use them all the time for fixturing and tooling.
> So the caps like Bill talked about are the cheapest and easiest way to fix
> this?
> Our valve stem diameter checks 6.6mm or (.260") whatever that size is!
> How can we use a Ford 11/32"(.343")diameter cap?
> Plus the Ford cap has a (.050-.080") thick wall, we need about (.020")?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, blake neilson
> wrote:
> > Plenty of auto engines have used them.� Some take the place of the
> retainer and some are used under the valve spring in the spring pocket.� I
> favor the latter as they are heavier than a simple retainer and so when used
> in place of a retainer add a lot of mass to the moving parts of the valve
> train.
> > Blake
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> wrote:
> > > Hi Marshall, if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312"
> dia tool steel .250" long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about
> .225" deep. This would leave a .025" wall.
> > > Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the top surface.
> > > Then do what Bill said about checking clearance. Grind valve ends to
> get the clearance in the middle of the travel of the rocker arm eccentric.
> > > Lyle
> > > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > > > > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with
> great success.
> > > > > > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm
> eccentric to
> > > > > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you
> know what
> > > > > > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and
> measure with a
> > > > > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open
> or High
> > > > > > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm.
> Then measure
> > > > > > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding
> to make them
> > > > > > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size
> (thickness) of
> > > > > > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve
> train and
> > > > > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > > > > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to
> make the
> > > > > > valves much quieter.
> > > > > > Bill

[lyletrudell]

Hi John, thanks for the information.
They look like they are the right ID.
The OD really doesn't matter much.
Thickness could be ground to what we need.
I will get the set of 16, I need 8 for my 2 engines.
Not sure what cam I will be using yet.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "John" wrote:
> Hi Lyle,
> I used Batten Performance 6.5mm lash caps with my reground camshaft. There are some on eBay now.
> John
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of lyletrudell
> > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 7:58 AM
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Valve Lash Caps
> > Hi Blake, I think Marshall was talking about the Steel rod available in
> > the UK. "Silver steel" it's just a tool steel rod that is hardened and
> > ground to an accurate size. We call them drill blanks or reamer blanks in
> > the USA.
> > Very common, I use them all the time for fixturing and tooling.
> > So the caps like Bill talked about are the cheapest and easiest way to fix
> > this?
> > Our valve stem diameter checks 6.6mm or (.260") whatever that size is!
> > How can we use a Ford 11/32"(.343")diameter cap?
> > Plus the Ford cap has a (.050-.080") thick wall, we need about (.020")?
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, blake neilson
> > wrote:
> > > Plenty of auto engines have used them.� Some take the place of the
> > retainer and some are used under the valve spring in the spring pocket.� I
> > favor the latter as they are heavier than a simple retainer and so when used
> > in place of a retainer add a lot of mass to the moving parts of the valve
> > train.
> > > Blake
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi Marshall, if I was going to design the lash caps I would use .312"
> > dia tool steel .250" long. Then machine a .262" dia flat bottom hole about
> > .225" deep. This would leave a .025" wall.
> > > > Then harden to 55Rc and grind and polish the top surface.
> > > > Then do what Bill said about checking clearance. Grind valve ends to
> > get the clearance in the middle of the travel of the rocker arm eccentric.
> > > > Lyle
> > > > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > > > > > > Lash caps work, I have used them on reground cam shafts with
> > great success.
> > > > > > > They put back the material removed allowing the rocker arm
> > eccentric to
> > > > > > > make the necessary adjustment. The first question is "How do you
> > know what
> > > > > > > size to use?" I put the valve train assembly together and
> > measure with a
> > > > > > > feeler gauge while each of the rocker arm shafts are in the open
> > or High
> > > > > > > side giving the most room between the cam and the rocker arm.
> > Then measure
> > > > > > > the thickness of the valve end of each rocker arm and grinding
> > to make them
> > > > > > > all even. This will give you a reference to base the size
> > (thickness) of
> > > > > > > the lash cap. Place over the valve stem, reassemble the valve
> > train and
> > > > > > > check for fit and adjustment.
> > > > > > > Lash caps allow oil under and on top of the cap, which seemed to
> > make the
> > > > > > > valves much quieter.
> > > > > > > Bill