Re:45hp motor,Thanks Bill,I for one really enjoy this kind of
information, I didn't realize their were modified 600's out there!
any more Hi-Perf. info. is appreciated! Are there any LO-BUCK tricks
for an otherwise stock motor,such as jetting,tuning,exhaust mods,
(such as you indicated)or even cam timing(adv. or ret.)?The stock
motor likes the stock initial(ign. timing), have you fooled with
centrifical or vacuum advance? Please advise!
SAKI\_BURNER!
-
dealadayray
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:08 am
Re: SAKI\_BURNER!
Not in the since of making things better. I was advised to leave the timing
alone. When your plugs fire at the same time on both cylinders, and the
sprocket on the cam is part of the cast there is not much you can do.
Electronic ignition is the way to go. Remember there is only so much can
be done without reproductions. The old rule still applies, for every
action there is a reaction.
Take for instance the bearings on the crankshaft. to rebuild a crankshaft
getting away from loose needle bearings to a one piece roller bearing unit
is the way to go. Come out with a kit that will allow rods, connecting pins
with a one piece roller bearing is one way to make the job accessible to
all. Tooling for such a set up is astronomical in view of the number of
cars that are left and how many people are willing to forgo the cost of such
a modification.
But lets say you just want to make a good crankshaft out of say three used
ones, there is pulling each apart, measure and weigh each part, buildup and
resurface the pins you want to use, find or remanufacture the rollers you
want to replace, find new cages for the assembly, blue print the lot which
may mean sleeving the upper and lower ends of the rods is both time
consuming and very costly, say $1,000.00, if nothing goes wrong.
I have put together a sleeve and shop that will do the work on your oil pump
eccentric. Miles makes the steel rods, a very good idea and great start. I
put one in an engine of mine and ran it for 4 years. I had one of the rods
that the oil pump piston pin had to be pressed into (keeps it from galling
the cylinder walls). There was still wear on the eccentric, only this time
the rod will not break. So line up the Dominos and label them eccentric,
rod, piston, pin, cylinder and cylinder housing. What do you think was the
next part to fail? If you said the housing you are correct. The reason for
the rod to break is because the housing is stronger and when the piston hit
the bottom hard enough the rod broke. When the steel rod didn't break, the
bottom of the housing cracked. Now, the rod is not alive and it didn't grow
longer, it is the eccentric ware which allowed the rod to move lower in the
cylinder until it touched. So lets sleeve the eccentric with something hard
enough to stop the wear. The solution is to sleeve the eccentric the oil
pump rod rides on. So for $150,00 I can have your eccentric sleeved to
specs and use one of Miles oil pump rods or to fit your original oil pump
rod. Yes, if your original rod is in good condition but showing some wear,
then send both the eccentric hub (keep the dampers, sprockets and end plate)
and your rod and I will have them match. The wear on the eccentric is
removed to almost nothing which keeps the piston from bottoming out and
causing your rod to snap.
How can I tell if the piston is bottoming out on the pump housing? you
can't, but with a mechanic's stethoscope you can listen to the rod chatter
on the eccentric. Place the end of your stethoscope on the engine case by
the engine number area and listen. The louder the sound the more ware you
have. This is not a measure, it is a pointer to possible problems areas.
alone. When your plugs fire at the same time on both cylinders, and the
sprocket on the cam is part of the cast there is not much you can do.
Electronic ignition is the way to go. Remember there is only so much can
be done without reproductions. The old rule still applies, for every
action there is a reaction.
Take for instance the bearings on the crankshaft. to rebuild a crankshaft
getting away from loose needle bearings to a one piece roller bearing unit
is the way to go. Come out with a kit that will allow rods, connecting pins
with a one piece roller bearing is one way to make the job accessible to
all. Tooling for such a set up is astronomical in view of the number of
cars that are left and how many people are willing to forgo the cost of such
a modification.
But lets say you just want to make a good crankshaft out of say three used
ones, there is pulling each apart, measure and weigh each part, buildup and
resurface the pins you want to use, find or remanufacture the rollers you
want to replace, find new cages for the assembly, blue print the lot which
may mean sleeving the upper and lower ends of the rods is both time
consuming and very costly, say $1,000.00, if nothing goes wrong.
I have put together a sleeve and shop that will do the work on your oil pump
eccentric. Miles makes the steel rods, a very good idea and great start. I
put one in an engine of mine and ran it for 4 years. I had one of the rods
that the oil pump piston pin had to be pressed into (keeps it from galling
the cylinder walls). There was still wear on the eccentric, only this time
the rod will not break. So line up the Dominos and label them eccentric,
rod, piston, pin, cylinder and cylinder housing. What do you think was the
next part to fail? If you said the housing you are correct. The reason for
the rod to break is because the housing is stronger and when the piston hit
the bottom hard enough the rod broke. When the steel rod didn't break, the
bottom of the housing cracked. Now, the rod is not alive and it didn't grow
longer, it is the eccentric ware which allowed the rod to move lower in the
cylinder until it touched. So lets sleeve the eccentric with something hard
enough to stop the wear. The solution is to sleeve the eccentric the oil
pump rod rides on. So for $150,00 I can have your eccentric sleeved to
specs and use one of Miles oil pump rods or to fit your original oil pump
rod. Yes, if your original rod is in good condition but showing some wear,
then send both the eccentric hub (keep the dampers, sprockets and end plate)
and your rod and I will have them match. The wear on the eccentric is
removed to almost nothing which keeps the piston from bottoming out and
causing your rod to snap.
How can I tell if the piston is bottoming out on the pump housing? you
can't, but with a mechanic's stethoscope you can listen to the rod chatter
on the eccentric. Place the end of your stethoscope on the engine case by
the engine number area and listen. The louder the sound the more ware you
have. This is not a measure, it is a pointer to possible problems areas.
Cranky Bearings
Bill -
I was told you couldn't use plain bearings in a roller bearing engine
because to oil pump was insufficient to lube plain bearings, our
pumps don't have the volumn. ????
I once had 2 BMW 600 Cars (the big Isetta), the former owner was a
machinist and had a complete shop in his basement. He bored & stroked
one of the cars, put in oversize VW valves and conn rods with plain
bearings. It ran fine, but I think those engines use spider gear
pumps which would supply enough oil.
Miles
I was told you couldn't use plain bearings in a roller bearing engine
because to oil pump was insufficient to lube plain bearings, our
pumps don't have the volumn. ????
I once had 2 BMW 600 Cars (the big Isetta), the former owner was a
machinist and had a complete shop in his basement. He bored & stroked
one of the cars, put in oversize VW valves and conn rods with plain
bearings. It ran fine, but I think those engines use spider gear
pumps which would supply enough oil.
Miles
--- In 2cylinderhondas@y..., "william colford" wrote:
> Not in the sense of making things better. I advise to leave the
timing
> alone. When your plugs fire at the same time on both cylinders,
and the
> sprocket on the cam is part of the cast there is not much you can
do.
> Electronic ignition is the way to go. Remember there is only so
much can
> be done without repercussions. The old rule still applies, for
every
> action there is a reaction.
> Take for instance the bearings on the crankshaft. to rebuild a
crankshaft
> getting away from loose needle bearings to a one piece roller
bearing unit
> is the way to go. Come out with a kit that will allow rods,
connecting pins
> with a one piece roller bearing is one way to make the job
accessible to
> all. Tooling for such a set up is astronomical in view of the
number of
> cars that are left and how many people are willing to forgo the
cost of such
> a modification.
> But let's say you just want to make a good crankshaft out of say
three used
> ones, there is pulling each apart, measure and weigh each part,
buildup and
> resurface the pins you want to use, find or remanufacture the
rollers you
> want to replace, find new cages for the assembly, blue print the
lot which
> may meen sleeving the upper and lower ends of the rods is both time
> consuming and very costly, say $1,000.00, if nothing goes wrong.
> I have put together a sleeve and shop that will do the work on your
oil pump
> eccentric. Miles makes the steel rods, a very good idea and great
start. I
> put one in an engine of mine and ran it for 4 years. I had one of
the rods
> that the oil pump piston pin had to be pressed into (keeps it from
galling
> the cylinder walls). There was still wear on the eccentric, only
this time
> the rod will not break. So line up the Dominos and label them
eccentric,
> rod, piston, pin, cylinder and cylinder housing. What do you think
was the
> next part to fail? If you said the housing you are correct. The
reason for
> the rod to break is because the housing is stronger and when the
piston hit
> the bottom hard enough the rod broke. When the steel rod didn't
break, the
> bottom of the housing cracked. Now, the rod is not alive and it
didn't grow
> longer, it is the eccentric ware which allowed the rod to move
lower in the
> cylinder until it touched. So lets sleeve the eccentric with
something hard
> enough to stop the wear. The solution is to sleeve the eccentric
the oil
> pump rod rides on. So for $150,00 I can have your eccentric
sleeved to
> specs and use one of Miles oil pump rods or to fit your original
oil pump
> rod. Yes, if your original rod is in good condition but showing
some wear,
> then send both the eccentric hub (keep the dampers, sprockets and
end plate)
> and your rod and I will have them match. The wear on the
eccentric is
> removed to almost nothing which keeps the piston from bottoming out
and
> causing your rod to snap.
> How can I tell if the piston is bottoming out on the pump housing?
you
> can't, but with a mechanic's stethoscope you can listen to the rod
chatter
> on the eccentric. Place the end of your stethoscope on the engine
case by
> the engine number area and listen. The louder the sound the more
ware you
> have. This is not a measure, it is a pointer to possible problems
areas.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "riceburner006"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 4:15 AM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] SAKI_BURNER!
> > Re:45hp motor,Thanks Bill,I for one really enjoy this kind of
> > information, I didn't realize their were modified 600's out there!
> > any more Hi-Perf. info. is appreciated! Are there any LO-BUCK
tricks
> > for an otherwise stock motor,such as jetting,tuning,exhaust mods,
> > (such as you indicated)or even cam timing(adv. or ret.)?The stock
> > motor likes the stock initial(ign. timing), have you fooled with
> > centrifical or vacuum advance? Please advise!
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 2cylinderhondas-unsubscribe@y...
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
-
dealadayray
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:08 am
Re: Cranky Bearings
You are right if I understand you to mean babbitted bearings, but the needle
or roller bearings I am thinking of are very close to the ones used in the
crankshaft now. The only difference is a one piece cage/bearing instead of
many rollers and a loose cage. I was looking into maintaining the same
housings and shaft sizes. Width is not an issue spacers can be added, the
major Problem is Honda had 10 different sizes of shaft and bearings. And,
although I have not found a different one yet, I believe there were
different inside diameters on the end bearing housings.
Bill
or roller bearings I am thinking of are very close to the ones used in the
crankshaft now. The only difference is a one piece cage/bearing instead of
many rollers and a loose cage. I was looking into maintaining the same
housings and shaft sizes. Width is not an issue spacers can be added, the
major Problem is Honda had 10 different sizes of shaft and bearings. And,
although I have not found a different one yet, I believe there were
different inside diameters on the end bearing housings.
Bill