cotten's brake problems

[zinc2u]

You don't get fluid to the passenger side rear brake cylinder?
The brake diagram
for the Z600 shows the brake fluid leaving the master cylinder,  going through a
proportioning valve to the passenger rear brake cylinder and then over to the driver
side rear brake cylinder.  If you have fluid on the driver side cylinder,  I would expect
to find fluid on the passenger side rear cylinder.
When you step on the brake,  do you get any brake action on the left and right rear
brake cylinders?
Did you recently clean out your master cylinder?   If so, when you disassembled it,
did it come apart easily or did it have a bunch of gunk in it?    I recently worked on 2
master cylinders which had a spongy feel and one of the things which made a big
difference was making sure all the passages were cleaned out.  In particular,  under the two
front and rear outlet tubes (you need a 3/4 inch wrench to remove the nut) when I removed
the inner valve and spring I noticed 2 holes in each section.  One hole was obvious and the other
was very small....... maybe 0.025 inches.  I found the small hole to be plugged and when I cleared
it out with a fine steel wire the brakes worked properly.
Also,  when you look at the bores of the master cylinder and the rear brake cylinder,  it should be very
smooth and not showing major pitting or corrosion.
good luck,
Dale

> I've got mine running  but not stopping.  Don't really know, > understand
> where the problem lies.  If I ever get that figgered out I > may get some stopping power.  Lines are all open MC seems operateble, > cleaned booster and it seems good, can bleed it and mc and front brakes.
> Get a little pedal and can stop but not too fast.  I get fluid to driver > rear wheel but not to passenger side even tho the line is open.  Pulled > driver wheel again thinking piston may have stuck and moved piston back and > forth.  Still won't pump fluid to other wheel.  Not knowing what is > wrong, it would cost the value of the car to buy rebuilt parts for complete > brake overhaul.  Guess I keep plugging at it.  Might get > lucky.
>     Good luck on yours Mike.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > Mike and Tami
> > Speer
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:06
> > PM
> > Subject:
> > RE: [2cylinderhondas] Honda
> > N600 trivial question
> > And after sitting
> > for 14 years the battery and cable may be just the beginning of what will be > > needed to get it running as I am finding out with my > > N600.
> > So far everything
> > you have mentioned for me to check on mine is just as you said Bill, Im > > getting more things ironed out but I still dont have mine > > running.
> > Mike
> > From:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com ]
> > On Behalf Of
> > billmyong@earthlink .net
> > Sent:
> > Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:57
> > PM
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject:
> > RE: [2cylinderhondas] Honda
> > N600 trivial question
> > Ok, ready set
> > think...  it's a 12 volt battery and 12 volt system with a couple of > > hundred cranking amps (depending on the battery).  The wire will be the > > same for all 12 volt systems.  Go to the local Auto Zone and pick up > > the right length of battery cable.  This is not rocket science.
> > Bill
> > > -----Original
> > > Message-----
> > > From:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > [mailto: 2cylinderho ndas@yahoogroups .com ]
> > > On Behalf Of
> > > gary cushman
> > > Sent:
> > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008
> > > 12:51 PM
> > > To:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject:
> > > Re: [2cylinderhondas] Honda
> > > N600 trivial question
> > >   OOOhhhh the M word.....I was repremended
> > > for that nasty word!! I looked at my Battery Cables and they are more like > > > a light car cable, I dont have the foggiest idea of gage? these are > > > originals on my car, I was at Walmart looking at the no lead cables, which > > > are the same size as mine
> > > G
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: mafoose_zxt
> > >
> > > To:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Wednesday,
> > > August 13, 2008 12:46:53 PM
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Honda N600
> > > trivial question
> > > On
> > > the quest to get my car that's sat for almost 14yrs running, I have > > > a > > > quick question.
> > > What size (gauge) wire should I run from the
> > > battery to the starter?
> > > It's basically a motorcycle right? On
> > > motorcycles that wire is like
> > > 10-12 gauge, is that enough for this
> > > car?
> > > Thanks!
> > > Mario
> > No virus found in this incoming
> > message.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com
> > Version: 8.0.138 /
> > Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 > > AM

Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos .

[cotton]

�
Mine seems to be just the opposite on rear brakes.  Line from MC to drivers rear wheel thru what
I guess is the proportioning valve to driver wheel, then another line comes from driver wheel straight to pass.
side, which has the only bleeder.  Can't tell if I'm getting any brake action on either rear wheel as I am working alone but I would guess defiantly not to pass. wheel as it will not bleed.  Sound logical?
     MC was gunked but cylinder was smooth and no cracks in rubbers which I softened with PB Blaster
  I didn't remove the 3/4 in. outlet tubes as they were too tight even with Blaster.  In the vise it would squirt fluid a couple feet in the air.
     Didn't get the cylinder apart on Booster but loose from big round part and in warm soapy water it sounded like it was sucking-pumping fluid.  Did this twice.  Seems clean now but???
    BTW I am getting fluid to driver wheel.
All lines are open.
    I would be interested in buying a Good 5/8 in.
MC.  That would be a starting point.  If that don't work
maybe can buy a piece outta each months check.  Hope to get enough of those checks to see this job completed.
     All help appreciated.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> goinhm@...
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, August 15, 2008 5:17
> AM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] cotten's brake
> problems
> You don't get fluid to the passenger side rear brake
> cylinder?   The brake diagram
> for the Z600 shows the brake fluid leaving the master cylinder, > going through a
> proportioning valve to the passenger rear brake cylinder and then over to > the driver
> side rear brake cylinder.  If you have fluid on the driver side > cylinder,  I would expect
> to find fluid on the passenger side rear cylinder.
> When you step on the brake,  do you get any brake action on the left > and right rear
> brake cylinders?
> Did you recently clean out your master cylinder?   If so,
> when you disassembled it,
> did it come apart easily or did it have a bunch of gunk in > it?    I recently worked on 2
> master cylinders which had a spongy feel and one of the things which made > a big
> difference was making sure all the passages were cleaned out.  In > particular,  under the two
> front and rear outlet tubes (you need a 3/4 inch wrench to remove the > nut) when I removed
> the inner valve and spring I noticed 2 holes in each section.  One > hole was obvious and the other
> was very small....... maybe 0.025 inches.  I found the small hole to > be plugged and when I cleared
> it out with a fine steel wire the brakes worked properly.
> Also,  when you look at the bores of the master cylinder and > the rear brake cylinder,  it should be very
> smooth and not showing major pitting or corrosion.
> good luck,
> Dale
> > I've got mine running  but not
> > stopping.  Don't really know, understand
> > where the problem lies.  If I ever get that figgered out I > > may get some stopping power.  Lines are all open MC seems operateble, > > cleaned booster and it seems good, can bleed it and mc and front > > brakes.  Get a little pedal and can stop but not too fast.  I get > > fluid to driver rear wheel but not to passenger side even tho the line is > > open.  Pulled driver wheel again thinking piston may have stuck and > > moved piston back and forth.  Still won't pump fluid to other > > wheel.  Not knowing what is wrong, it would cost the value of the car > > to buy rebuilt parts for complete brake overhaul.  Guess I keep > > plugging at it.  Might get lucky.
> >     Good luck on yours Mike.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > Mike and
> > > Tami Speer
> > > To:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent:
> > > Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:06
> > > PM
> > > Subject:
> > > RE: [2cylinderhondas] Honda
> > > N600 trivial question
> > > And after sitting
> > > for 14 years the battery and cable may be just the beginning of what will > > > be needed to get it running as I am finding out with my > > > N600.
> > > So far everything
> > > you have mentioned for me to check on mine is just as you said Bill, Im > > > getting more things ironed out but I still dont have mine > > > running.
> > > Mike
> > > From:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > [mailto: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com ]
> > > On Behalf Of
> > > billmyong@earthlink .net
> > > Sent:
> > > Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:57
> > > PM
> > > To:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject:
> > > RE: [2cylinderhondas] Honda
> > > N600 trivial question
> > > Ok, ready set
> > > think...  it's a 12 volt battery and 12 volt system with a couple of > > > hundred cranking amps (depending on the battery).  The wire will be > > > the same for all 12 volt systems.  Go to the local Auto Zone and pick > > > up the right length of battery cable.  This is not rocket > > > science.
> > > Bill
> > > > -----Original
> > > > Message-----
> > > > From:
> > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > [mailto: 2cylinderho ndas@yahoogroups .com ] > > > > On Behalf Of
> > > > gary cushman
> > > > Sent:
> > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008
> > > > 12:51 PM
> > > > To:
> > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Subject:
> > > > Re: [2cylinderhondas]
> > > > Honda N600 trivial question
> > > >   OOOhhhh the M word.....I was repremended
> > > > for that nasty word!! I looked at my Battery Cables and they are more > > > > like a light car cable, I dont have the foggiest idea of gage? these are > > > > originals on my car, I was at Walmart looking at the no lead cables, > > > > which are the same size as mine
> > > > G
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: mafoose_zxt
> > > >
> > > > To:
> > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday,
> > > > August 13, 2008 12:46:53 PM
> > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Honda N600
> > > > trivial question
> > > > On
> > > > the quest to get my car that's sat for almost 14yrs running, I have > > > > a > > > > quick question.
> > > > What size (gauge) wire should I run from the
> > > > battery to the starter?
> > > > It's basically a motorcycle right? On
> > > > motorcycles that wire is like
> > > > 10-12 gauge, is that enough for this
> > > > car?
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > Mario
> > > No virus found in this incoming
> > > message.
> > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com
> > > Version: 8.0.138 /
> > > Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 > > > AM
> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
> Read reviews on AOL Autos
> .

[zinc2u]

Looks like your car has a different routing on the brake lines than I have seen
but that is no big deal.  It is easier to have a helper when working on brakes but here
are some things to try;
1)  put the rear axle up on jack stands to get both wheels off the ground.
Get a piece of lumber (e.g. 2 x 4) and use it to depress the brake pedal.
If you are using the seat as a backstop,  put something against the seat
material to keep it from being damaged.  Check to see if you can rotate
the rear wheels.  The driver side may work but I would not expect the
passenger side to be locked up.
2)  Remove the lumber from (1).   If you disconnect the brake line running into the passenger
rear brake cylinder and press down on the brake pedal,  do you see any brake fluid being forced through
the line (i.e.  did anything spill out onto the ground or into a container)?  If not,  check another spot
on the brake line where you can find fluid  (maybe at the line leaving the driver side rear brake cylinder).
If you do see fluid coming out of the line,  go to (3)
3)  check out your passenger side rear brake cylinder.  Take it apart and clean out the passages.  Check for a smooth bore.  Since you have a 5/8 inch cylinder,  you can still get parts for it.  The early Civics used this same brake cylinder and the rubber parts (dust seal, brake piston seals) are available as a Raybestos part number WK895 (or cross reference to this part number or a 1973 Honda Civic 1200).  This kit is good for one
cylinder and should cost less than $10 at your auto parts dealer.   These rear brake cylinders are pretty simple and the problem is either going to be a blocked passage, damaged bore, or worn out / damaged rubber seals.
(4)  your master cylinder appears to be functional.  You may want to jack up the front of the car, apply the brakes and verify the front wheels lock up.  You may need to bleed your brakes some more to get out all the air.
good luck,
Dale

> �
> Mine seems to be just the opposite on rear brakes.  Line from MC to > drivers rear wheel thru what
> I guess is the proportioning valve to driver wheel, then another > line comes from driver wheel straight to pass.
> side, which has the only bleeder.  Can't tell if I'm getting > any brake action on either rear wheel as I am working alone but I would guess > defiantly not to pass. wheel as it will not bleed.  Sound > logical?
>      MC was gunked but cylinder was smooth
> and no cracks in rubbers which I softened with PB Blaster
>   I didn't remove the 3/4 in. outlet tubes as they were too > tight even with Blaster.  In the vise it would squirt fluid a couple feet > in the air.
>      Didn't get the cylinder apart on Booster
> but loose from big round part and in warm soapy water it sounded like it was > sucking-pumping fluid.  Did this twice.  Seems clean now > but???
>     BTW I am getting fluid to driver wheel.
> All lines are open.
>     I would be interested in buying a Good 5/8 in.
> MC.  That would be a starting point.  If that don't work
> maybe can buy a piece outta each months check.  Hope to get > enough of those checks to see this job completed.
>      All help appreciated.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > goinhm@...
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Friday, August 15, 2008 5:17
> > AM
> > Subject:
> > [2cylinderhondas] cotten's
> > brake problems
> > You don't get fluid to the passenger side rear brake
> > cylinder?   The brake diagram
> > for the Z600 shows the brake fluid leaving the master cylinder, > > going through a
> > proportioning valve to the passenger rear brake cylinder and then over > > to the driver
> > side rear brake cylinder.  If you have fluid on the driver side > > cylinder,  I would expect
> > to find fluid on the passenger side rear cylinder.
> > When you step on the brake,  do you get any brake action on the > > left and right rear
> > brake cylinders?
> > Did you recently clean out your master cylinder?   If
> > so,  when you disassembled it,
> > did it come apart easily or did it have a bunch of gunk in > > it?    I recently worked on 2
> > master cylinders which had a spongy feel and one of the things which > > made a big
> > difference was making sure all the passages were cleaned out.  In > > particular,  under the two
> > front and rear outlet tubes (you need a 3/4 inch wrench to remove the > > nut) when I removed
> > the inner valve and spring I noticed 2 holes in each section.  One > > hole was obvious and the other
> > was very small....... maybe 0.025 inches.  I found the small hole > > to be plugged and when I cleared
> > it out with a fine steel wire the brakes worked properly.
> > Also,  when you look at the bores of the master cylinder and > > the rear brake cylinder,  it should be very
> > smooth and not showing major pitting or corrosion.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > > I've got mine running  but not
> > > stopping.  Don't really know, understand
> > > where the problem lies.  If I ever get that figgered out > > > I may get some stopping power.  Lines are all open MC seems > > > operateble, cleaned booster and it seems good, can bleed it and mc and > > > front brakes.  Get a little pedal and can stop but not too > > > fast.  I get fluid to driver rear wheel but not to passenger side > > > even tho the line is open.  Pulled driver wheel again thinking piston > > > may have stuck and moved piston back and forth.  Still won't pump > > > fluid to other wheel.  Not knowing what is wrong, it would cost the > > > value of the car to buy rebuilt parts for complete brake overhaul.
> > > Guess I keep plugging at it.  Might get lucky.
> > >     Good luck on yours Mike.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From:
> > > > Mike and
> > > > Tami Speer
> > > > To:
> > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Sent:
> > > > Thursday, August 14, 2008
> > > > 10:06 PM
> > > > Subject:
> > > > RE: [2cylinderhondas]
> > > > Honda N600 trivial question
> > > > And after
> > > > sitting for 14 years the battery and cable may be just the beginning of > > > > what will be needed to get it running as I am finding out with my > > > > N600.
> > > > So far
> > > > everything you have mentioned for me to check on mine is just as you > > > > said Bill, Im getting more things ironed out but I still dont have > > > > mine running.
> > > > Mike
> > > > From:
> > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > [mailto: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com ] > > > > On Behalf Of
> > > > billmyong@earthlink .net
> > > > Sent:
> > > > Thursday, August 14, 2008
> > > > 7:57 PM
> > > > To:
> > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Subject:
> > > > RE: [2cylinderhondas]
> > > > Honda N600 trivial question
> > > > Ok, ready set
> > > > think...  it's a 12 volt battery and 12 volt system with a couple > > > > of hundred cranking amps (depending on the battery).  The wire will > > > > be the same for all 12 volt systems.  Go to the local Auto Zone and > > > > pick up the right length of battery cable.  This is not rocket > > > > science.
> > > > Bill
> > > > > -----Original
> > > > > Message-----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > [mailto: 2cylinderho ndas@yahoogroups .com ] > > > > > On Behalf Of
> > > > > gary cushman
> > > > > Sent:
> > > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008
> > > > > 12:51 PM
> > > > > To:
> > > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > Subject:
> > > > > Re: [2cylinderhondas]
> > > > > Honda N600 trivial question
> > > > >   OOOhhhh the M word.....I was
> > > > > repremended for that nasty word!! I looked at my Battery Cables and > > > > > they are more like a light car cable, I dont have the foggiest idea of > > > > > gage? these are originals on my car, I was at Walmart looking at the > > > > > no lead cables, which are the same size as > > > > > mine
> > > > > G
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > mafoose_zxt
> > > > > To:
> > > > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > Sent:
> > > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 12:46:53 PM
> > > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas]
> > > > > Honda N600 trivial question
> > > > > On the quest to get my car that's sat for
> > > > > almost 14yrs running, I have
> > > > > a quick question.
> > > > > What size
> > > > > (gauge) wire should I run from the battery to the starter?
> > > > > It's
> > > > > basically a motorcycle right? On motorcycles that wire is > > > > > like > > > > > 10-12 gauge, is that enough for this > > > > > car?
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > Mario
> > > > No virus found in this incoming
> > > > message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com
> > > > Version: 8.0.138
> > > > / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 > > > > AM
> > Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
> > Read reviews on AOL Autos
> > .

Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos .