hi this is dean i got a little problem. i am trying to get my "tired puppy" to start. i have replaced the spark plug wires and ends and get a very good spark at the end of the wire. i have checked and have good compression. my carb i know needs help but when i try to get the engine to kick by spraying cold start down the carb nothing happens. is the spark plugs suppost to be special? am i assuming that cold start will start momentary the engine wrong? i just don't remember. it has been 30 years when i was a mech. and i don't remember any thing any more. help...thanks
Click to compare life insurance rates. Great rates, quick and easy.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL ... VNDlNX66T/
puppy won't whimper
-
mygto_1999
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 8:00 am
Re: puppy won't whimper
Hi,
What spark plugs are in it now? Are they very old?
Yes, the engine should try to start when the cold start spray is sprayed
into the intake area, if the spark is good enough.
Have you also checked the valve adjustment? If the valves are too tight and
possibly not closing then this could be a problem too. You did mention the
compression was good, so the valves "should" be pretty good, but it wouldn't
hurt to check them. How much PSI did you get when checking the compression?
Mike
What spark plugs are in it now? Are they very old?
Yes, the engine should try to start when the cold start spray is sprayed
into the intake area, if the spark is good enough.
Have you also checked the valve adjustment? If the valves are too tight and
possibly not closing then this could be a problem too. You did mention the
compression was good, so the valves "should" be pretty good, but it wouldn't
hurt to check them. How much PSI did you get when checking the compression?
Mike
Re: puppy won't whimper
Hi Dean,
Is "cold start" the same as starting fluid? If so, I have used your method to start a car. Here are some things to think about;
1) When you check the spark and it looks good, keep in mind this is done in the open and you are not seeing the spark under compression. It is possible for the spark to look good "in the open" but under compression, the spark may not be occurring. This could be due to a defective (or fouled) plug or problems with the ignition coil or wiring. You might try using a brand new plug and gap it to something between
.028 and .032 inches. To see if the spark plug is firing under compression, I use a spark plug tester which is inserted inline with the plug and if the plug is firing, the tester flashes. You may also try using a timing light. For the Honda 600, both plugs are firing at the same time. So, you need to see the spark on both sides.
2) Check your timing. Even though the engine is not running, you can connect a voltmeter or a 12 volt light across the points (between the blue wire connection and the engine metal). With the ignition switch in the start position and the crank turned so the pulley's mark is aligned with the "F" mark on the case, you should be right at the point where a light (or the 12 volts) goes on/off. You can loosen the vacuum advance and move it back and forth and verify the engine is at the correct spot.
You are doing a static timing on the engine since it is not running and it gets you close enough to know whether a problem exists.
3) If step 2 above looks okay, it is possible you have a defective capacitor (condensor). And if the condensor is shorted, step 2 will not work. check your condensor.
4) If the compression is good (it should be around 160 psi), the timing is close, you have air (hard for the engine to not have air), you have fuel (if you are using starting fluid, you have fuel), and you have ignition
(if it can spark under compression), it must work. I suspect a problem in the ignition if it is not starting. That would be something in the plugs/points/condensor/coil or wiring.
good luck,
Dale
Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators .
Is "cold start" the same as starting fluid? If so, I have used your method to start a car. Here are some things to think about;
1) When you check the spark and it looks good, keep in mind this is done in the open and you are not seeing the spark under compression. It is possible for the spark to look good "in the open" but under compression, the spark may not be occurring. This could be due to a defective (or fouled) plug or problems with the ignition coil or wiring. You might try using a brand new plug and gap it to something between
.028 and .032 inches. To see if the spark plug is firing under compression, I use a spark plug tester which is inserted inline with the plug and if the plug is firing, the tester flashes. You may also try using a timing light. For the Honda 600, both plugs are firing at the same time. So, you need to see the spark on both sides.
2) Check your timing. Even though the engine is not running, you can connect a voltmeter or a 12 volt light across the points (between the blue wire connection and the engine metal). With the ignition switch in the start position and the crank turned so the pulley's mark is aligned with the "F" mark on the case, you should be right at the point where a light (or the 12 volts) goes on/off. You can loosen the vacuum advance and move it back and forth and verify the engine is at the correct spot.
You are doing a static timing on the engine since it is not running and it gets you close enough to know whether a problem exists.
3) If step 2 above looks okay, it is possible you have a defective capacitor (condensor). And if the condensor is shorted, step 2 will not work. check your condensor.
4) If the compression is good (it should be around 160 psi), the timing is close, you have air (hard for the engine to not have air), you have fuel (if you are using starting fluid, you have fuel), and you have ignition
(if it can spark under compression), it must work. I suspect a problem in the ignition if it is not starting. That would be something in the plugs/points/condensor/coil or wiring.
good luck,
Dale
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges?> hi this
> is dean i got a little problem. i am trying to get my "tired puppy" to start.
> i have replaced the spark plug wires and ends and get a very good spark at the > end of the wire. i have checked and have good compression. my carb i know > needs help but when i try to get the engine to kick by spraying cold start > down the carb nothing happens. is the spark plugs suppost to be special? am i > assuming that cold start will start momentary the engine wrong? i just don't > remember. it has been 30 years when i was a mech. and i don't remember any > thing any more. help...thanks
Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators .
Re: puppy won't whimper
hi i'm not sure that the sparkplugs are the right ones the person before me (in 87?) worked on the carb and points and plugs. this i know because i have the old carb kit and old points. as the carb needs work i would not be surprised that the spark plugs are the wrong ones. what should they be. then i can make sure that they are at .028 and .032 inch gap. dean
Save on Trade Schools - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL ... ebsQjJKhx/
Save on Trade Schools - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL ... ebsQjJKhx/
Re: puppy won't whimper
NGK B8ES were the original stock plugs on the US Honda 600 but lots of plugs cross reference to
this number. What brand and number do you have?
Dale
Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators .
this number. What brand and number do you have?
Dale
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges?> hi i'm
> not sure that the sparkplugs are the right ones the person before me (in 87?) > worked on the carb and points and plugs. this i know because i have the old > carb kit and old points. as the carb needs work i would not be surprised that > the spark plugs are the wrong ones. what should they be. then i can make sure > that they are at .028 and .032 inch gap. dean
Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators .
Re: puppy won't whimper
Are they still putting MTMB in gasoline? I had a '51 Ford pickup I was working on and only moved it in and out of the shop.
Sometimes I would flood it a time or two and when it it wouldn't start all I had to do was clean two plugs on a v8 and it would start and run pretty good.
On it the plugs fired on the outside of engine but not under compression.
On the cheap try cleaning the plugs even tho they may be new.
Finally got my n600 going. On Wed. I got it insured and tagged antique.
I thought $50 for 5 yrs sounded pretty good. The lady at DMV said you know you are only allowed to drive it in to shows and parades and to charge the battery. I told her I might have to drive it quite a bit to keep the battery up. I still don't have rear brakes, need kits, but front ones work
I had it up to 55mph a couple days ago on a not too smooth road and as
someone stated the NAPA shocks are a little harsh. Purred like a kitten.
I want to thank everyone for their help as I could never have gotten to this point without you. I have a terrible memory but you know who you are. Again many thanks.
Sometimes I would flood it a time or two and when it it wouldn't start all I had to do was clean two plugs on a v8 and it would start and run pretty good.
On it the plugs fired on the outside of engine but not under compression.
On the cheap try cleaning the plugs even tho they may be new.
Finally got my n600 going. On Wed. I got it insured and tagged antique.
I thought $50 for 5 yrs sounded pretty good. The lady at DMV said you know you are only allowed to drive it in to shows and parades and to charge the battery. I told her I might have to drive it quite a bit to keep the battery up. I still don't have rear brakes, need kits, but front ones work
I had it up to 55mph a couple days ago on a not too smooth road and as
someone stated the NAPA shocks are a little harsh. Purred like a kitten.
I want to thank everyone for their help as I could never have gotten to this point without you. I have a terrible memory but you know who you are. Again many thanks.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Tami & Mike
> Speer
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, September 26, 2008 10:10
> PM
> Subject:
> RE: [2cylinderhondas] puppy
> won't whimper
> Hi,
> What spark plugs are in it now? Are they very old?
> Yes, the
> engine should try to start when the cold start spray is sprayed > into the > intake area, if the spark is good enough.
> Have you also checked the valve
> adjustment? If the valves are too tight and
> possibly not closing then this
> could be a problem too. You did mention the
> compression was good, so the
> valves "should" be pretty good, but it wouldn't
> hurt to check them. How
> much PSI did you get when checking the
> compression?
> Mike
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Click > to compare life insurance rates. Great rates, quick and easy.
> http://thirdpartyof fers.netzero. net/TGL2241/ fc/Ioyw6i4tyKHiq cvLhcoOsHdk9jTgU > 41ty9SwigtsCihpJVND lNX66T/ > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > Yahoo!
> Groups Links
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG
> -
> http://www.avg. com
> Version:
> 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1694 - Release Date: 9/26/2008 > 6:55 > PM
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG -
> http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1693 -
> Release Date: 9/26/2008 7:35 AM
Re: puppy won't whimper
champion N2C sparkplugs dean
original message
NGK B8ES were the original stock plugs on the US Honda 600 but lots of plugs cross reference to
this number. What brand and number do you have?
Dale
hi i'm not sure that the sparkplugs are the right ones the person before me (in 87?) worked on the carb and points and plugs. this i know because i have the old carb kit and old points. as the carb needs work i would not be surprised that the spark plugs are the wrong ones. what should they be. then i can make sure that they are at .028 and .032 inch gap. dean
Click here to find affordable degree programs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL ... sWgRE1GAv/
original message
NGK B8ES were the original stock plugs on the US Honda 600 but lots of plugs cross reference to
this number. What brand and number do you have?
Dale
hi i'm not sure that the sparkplugs are the right ones the person before me (in 87?) worked on the carb and points and plugs. this i know because i have the old carb kit and old points. as the carb needs work i would not be surprised that the spark plugs are the wrong ones. what should they be. then i can make sure that they are at .028 and .032 inch gap. dean
Click here to find affordable degree programs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL ... sWgRE1GAv/
Re: puppy won't whimper
Hi Dean,
Good to hear you have your car running. The plug you did have, champion N2C, did appear to cross reference to the NGK B8ES plug on the cross reference I checked. If you have some new ones, they should work but you can't go wrong with the NGK plug.
Dale
Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators .
Good to hear you have your car running. The plug you did have, champion N2C, did appear to cross reference to the NGK B8ES plug on the cross reference I checked. If you have some new ones, they should work but you can't go wrong with the NGK plug.
Dale
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges?> champion
> N2C sparkplugs
Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators .
Re: puppy won't whimper
Uh oh, Took it for a longer drive and had to get towed in. Got to pull and clean gas tank. Sort of knew it need it but hated to do it. No choice now and now have back end jacked and propped to start the procedure.
I just know it'll be a lot of fun.
I just know it'll be a lot of fun.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> cotton
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:34
> AM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] puppy
> won't whimper
> . On the cheap try cleaning the plugs even tho they may be > new.
> Finally got my n600 going. On Wed.
> I got it insured and tagged antique.
> I thought $50 for 5 yrs sounded pretty good. The lady at
> DMV said you know you are only allowed to drive it in to shows and parades and > to charge the battery. I told her I might have to drive it quite a bit > to keep the battery up. I still don't have rear brakes, need kits, > but front ones work
> I had it up to 55mph a couple days ago on a
> not too smooth road and as
> someone stated the NAPA shocks are a little harsh. Purred > like a kitten.
> I want to thank everyone for their help as I
> could never have gotten to this point without you. I have a terrible > memory but you know who you are. Again many thanks.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > Tami & Mike
> > Speer
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > No > > virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG -
> > http://www.avg. com
> > Version: 8.0.169 /
> > Virus Database: 270.7.3/1694 - Release Date: 9/26/2008 > > 6:55 > > PM
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG -
> > http://www.avg. com
> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1693
> > - Release Date: 9/26/2008 7:35 AM
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG -
> http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1694 -
> Release Date: 9/26/2008 6:55 PM
Re: puppy won't whimper
Cleaning the gas tank and lines is not a really hard job, contact Bill Hirsch at www.hirschauto.com and a motorcycle kit will do the trick.
Bill
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > cotton > Sent:
> Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:25
> AM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] puppy won't whimper
> Uh oh, Took it for a longer drive
> and had to get towed in. Got to pull and clean gas tank. Sort of > knew it need it but hated to do it. No choice now and now have back end > jacked and propped to start the procedure.
> I just know it'll be a lot of fun.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > cotton
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:34
> > AM
> > Subject:
> > Re: [2cylinderhondas] puppy
> > won't whimper
> > . On the cheap try cleaning the plugs
> > even tho they may be new.
> > Finally got my n600 going. On
> > Wed. I got it insured and tagged antique.
> > I thought $50 for 5 yrs sounded pretty good. The lady at > > DMV said you know you are only allowed to drive it in to shows and parades > > and to charge the battery. I told her I might have to drive it quite a > > bit to keep the battery up. I still don't have rear brakes, need > > kits, but front ones work
> > I had it up to 55mph a couple days ago on a
> > not too smooth road and as
> > someone stated the NAPA shocks are a little harsh. Purred > > like a kitten.
> > I want to thank everyone for their help as I
> > could never have gotten to this point without you. I have a terrible > > memory but you know who you are. Again many thanks.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > Tami & Mike
> > > Speer
> > > To:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > > No > > > virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG -
> > > http://www.avg. com
> > > Version: 8.0.169
> > > / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1694 - Release Date: 9/26/2008 > > > 6:55 > > > PM
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG -
> > > http://www.avg. com
> > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database:
> > > 270.7.3/1693 - Release Date: 9/26/2008 7:35 AM
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG -
> > http://www.avg. com
> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1694
> > - Release Date: 9/26/2008 6:55 PM