1971 AN600 Won't Start

aspidude · Post by **aspidude** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:41 pm

Ran perfect, now wont start. Pulled the plugs and am seeing that I am getting no spark to the plugs. Where should I start? I'll preface by saying that I am by no means a mechanic by any nature, just a 600 owner. Changed the points, the condensor and the coil... Now what?
Thanks, Dave

mygto_1999 · Post by **mygto_1999** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:05 pm

Did you set the point gap correctly?
Why did you replace the coil? Was it replaced with a used one or aftermarket one?
Mike

aspidude · Post by **aspidude** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:38 pm

Set the points per the manual, replaced the coil with a used coil from a working engine because I thought that was probably why I was not getting any spark. I still have the other one though. What do you suggest I try next?

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "Mike & Tami Speer" wrote:
> Did you set the point gap correctly?
> Why did you replace the coil? Was it replaced with a used one or aftermarket
> one?
> Mike
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of aspidude
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:41 PM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> Ran perfect, now wont start. Pulled the plugs and am seeing that I am
> getting no spark to the plugs. Where should I start? I'll preface by saying
> that I am by no means a mechanic by any nature, just a 600 owner. Changed
> the points, the condensor and the coil... Now what?
> Thanks, Dave
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.28/2454 - Release Date: 10/24/09
> 14:31:00

dean m · Post by **dean m** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 pm

replace the coil lead

--- On
Sat, 10/24/09, aspidude

wrote:
> From: aspidude
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 5:37 PM
> Set the points per the manual, replaced the coil with a used coil from a working engine because I thought that was probably why I was not getting any spark. I still have the other one though. What do you suggest I try next?
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> , "Mike & Tami Speer" wrote:
> > Did you set the point gap correctly?
> > Why did you replace the coil? Was it replaced with a used one or aftermarket
> > one?
> > Mike
> > From:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> ] On Behalf Of aspidude
> > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:41 PM
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> > Ran perfect, now wont start. Pulled the plugs and am seeing that I am
> > getting no spark to the plugs. Where should I start? I'll preface by saying
> > that I am by no means a mechanic by any nature, just a 600 owner. Changed
> > the points, the condensor and the coil... Now what?
> > Thanks, Dave
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.28/2454 - Release Date: 10/24/09
> > 14:31:00

feltonminicycle · Post by **feltonminicycle** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:30 pm

Check the mechanical timing before you bend the valves !

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, dean m wrote:
> replace the coil lead�
> --- On Sat, 10/24/09, aspidude wrote:
> From: aspidude
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 5:37 PM
> �
> Set the points per the manual, replaced the coil with a used coil from a working engine because I thought that was probably why I was not getting any spark. I still have the other one though. What do you suggest I try next?
> --- In 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike & Tami Speer" wrote:
> > Did you set the point gap correctly?
> > Why did you replace the coil? Was it replaced with a used one or aftermarket
> > one?
> > Mike
> > From: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of aspidude
> > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:41 PM
> > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> > Ran perfect, now wont start. Pulled the plugs and am seeing that I am
> > getting no spark to the plugs. Where should I start? I'll preface by saying
> > that I am by no means a mechanic by any nature, just a 600 owner. Changed
> > the points, the condensor and the coil... Now what?
> > Thanks, Dave
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.28/2454 - Release Date: 10/24/09
> > 14:31:00

aspidude · Post by **aspidude** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:09 pm

Replaced the coil lead, and got spark! Still won't start, though. Will try again next weekend. What should I do next?

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "feltonminicycle" wrote:
> Check the mechanical timing before you bend the valves !
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, dean m wrote:
> > replace the coil lead�
> > --- On Sat, 10/24/09, aspidude wrote:
> > From: aspidude
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 5:37 PM
> > �
> > Set the points per the manual, replaced the coil with a used coil from a working engine because I thought that was probably why I was not getting any spark. I still have the other one though. What do you suggest I try next?
> > --- In 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike & Tami Speer" wrote:
> > > Did you set the point gap correctly?
> > > Why did you replace the coil? Was it replaced with a used one or aftermarket
> > > one?
> > > Mike
> > > From: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > [mailto:2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of aspidude
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:41 PM
> > > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> > > Ran perfect, now wont start. Pulled the plugs and am seeing that I am
> > > getting no spark to the plugs. Where should I start? I'll preface by saying
> > > that I am by no means a mechanic by any nature, just a 600 owner. Changed
> > > the points, the condensor and the coil... Now what?
> > > Thanks, Dave
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.28/2454 - Release Date: 10/24/09
> > > 14:31:00

dean m · Post by **dean m** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:51 pm

tighten the intake manifold clamp , just try it id had the same problem

--- On
Sun, 10/25/09, aspidude

wrote:
> From: aspidude
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 7:09 PM
> Replaced the coil lead, and got spark! Still won't start, though. Will try again next weekend. What should I do next?
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> , "feltonminicycle" wrote:
> > Check the mechanical timing before you bend the valves !
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> , dean m wrote:
> > > replace the coil lead
> > > --- On Sat, 10/24/09, aspidude wrote:
> > > From: aspidude
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 5:37 PM
> > > Set the points per the manual, replaced the coil with a used coil from a working engine because I thought that was probably why I was not getting any spark. I still have the other one though. What do you suggest I try next?
> > > --- In 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike & Tami Speer" wrote:
> > > > Did you set the point gap correctly?
> > > > Why did you replace the coil? Was it replaced with a used one or aftermarket
> > > > one?
> > > > Mike
> > > > From: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > [mailto:2cylinderho ndas@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of aspidude
> > > > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:41 PM
> > > > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> > > > Ran perfect, now wont start. Pulled the plugs and am seeing that I am
> > > > getting no spark to the plugs. Where should I start? I'll preface by saying
> > > > that I am by no means a mechanic by any nature, just a 600 owner. Changed
> > > > the points, the condensor and the coil... Now what?
> > > > Thanks, Dave
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.28/2454 - Release Date: 10/24/09
> > > > 14:31:00

mterrens · Post by **mterrens** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:36 am

Dean,
Yes, now that you mention it, years ago I found that securing the intake manifold helped a lot. I may have used a bit of some sort of appropriate goo in there as well as my seal may not have in very good shape.
Steve

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> dean m
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, October 26, 2009 12:51
> AM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971
> AN600 Won't Start
> tighten the intake manifold clamp , just try it id had
> the same problem
> --- On
> Sun, 10/25/09, aspidude
> aspidude@yahoo. com
> wrote:
> > From:
> > aspidude > aspidude@yahoo. com
> > Subject:
> > [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971 AN600 Won't Start
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date:
> > Sunday, October 25, 2009, 7:09 PM
> > Replaced the coil lead, and got spark! Still won't start, though.
> > Will try again next weekend. What should I do next?
> > --- In
> > 2cylinderhondas@
> > yahoogroups. com
> > , "feltonminicycle"
> > wrote:
> > > Check the mechanical timing before you bend the
> > valves !
> > > --- In
> > 2cylinderhondas@
> > yahoogroups. com
> > , dean m wrote:
> > > > replace the coil lead
> > > --- On Sat, 10/24/09, aspidude wrote:
> > > > From: aspidude
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971 AN600 Won't Start > > > > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@
> > yahoogroups. com
> > > > Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009,
> > 5:37 PM
> > > > Set the points per the manual, replaced the coil
> > with a used coil from a working engine because I thought that was > > probably why I was not getting any spark. I still have the other one > > though. What do you suggest I try next?
> > > > --- In 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com,
> > "Mike & Tami Speer" wrote:
> > > > > Did you set the point gap
> > correctly?
> > > Why did you replace the coil? Was it replaced with a used one or > > aftermarket
> > > > > one?
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > From: 2cylinderhondas@
> > yahoogroups. com
> > > > > [mailto:2cylinderho
> > ndas@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of aspidude
> > > > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:41 PM
> > > > > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] 1971 AN600 Won't
> > Start
> > > > > Ran
> > perfect, now wont start. Pulled the plugs and am seeing that I > > am
> > > > > getting no spark to the plugs.
> > Where should I start? I'll preface by saying
> > > > that I am by no means a mechanic by any nature, just a 600 > > owner. Changed
> > > > > the points, the
> > condensor and the coil... Now what?
> > > > > Thanks, Dave
> > > > > No virus found in this incoming
> > message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG -
> > www.avg.com
> > > > > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus
> > Database: 270.14.28/2454 - Release Date: 10/24/09
> > > > > 14:31:00

zinc2u · Post by **zinc2u** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:52 pm

What I gather from you posts is that;
1) it ran fine at some time in the past
2) it sat for a period of time without being used
3) it doesn't run now
4) you are a novice at auto mechanics
here are some things for you to consider;
1) The problem is probably something minor and is probably related to the fuel system or electrical system
2) If you have fuel, air, compression, ignition, and proper timing, the engine will start.    So far, the only item I suspect is present is the air .... it is everywhere. You need to check out the other items.
    a) run a compression test. It should be around 160 psi
    b) you tell me you have spark (ignition) but I suspect you are not testing for spark under compression. An inline spark plug tester would help answer this question. There are other ways to check but I would focus at this time on the other items.
    c) check the ignition timing. An easy way is to hook up a 12 volts bulb (or voltmeter) between the blue wire to the points and ground. With the ignition switch "on" and as you turn over the crank manually (17 mm wrench on the crank bolt below the battery tray), you should see the voltage (light) transition between 12 volts and zero when the notch on the crank pulley approaches the "F" mark on the engine case.
   d) while you are at it, check the mechanical timing (as Bill suggested). Although it is unlikely to change from sitting, it is easy to check. One thing to check is to turn the crank over until the notch on the crank pulley is at the "T" mark on the engine casing. If you remove the oil cap and look at the cam holder, you should see a notch in the camshaft which is facing up. Also, if you remove the spark plugs, both pistons should be at Top Dead Center.
    e) with the spark plugs removed, clean them or replace them. Since you are having problems getting your car to start, I would replace both plugs (keep the old ones, you can use them at a later time). The NGK part number is B8ES. Set the plug gap at 0.028 to 0.032 inches.
      I have a car which used to exhibit the same problem as yours .... it worked fine but if I let it sit for a period of time, it would not start. I was using NippoDenso plugs and they worked fine when new but if the car sat for several months, they had a layer of contamination which prevented them from working properly.   I switched brands on the plugs (I normally run NGK and Autolite..... I have a bunch I bought way back during the 20th century) and the problem went away.  The problem was not entirely the result of the plugs ..... I also was suspicious of the high voltage wires from the coil to the plugs.
    f) check the fuel system. If the car sat for a period of time, the fuel system may be contaminated or "gunked" up. Especially as a result of the alcohol which is now present in the gasoline.   I would not trust the gas sitting in the carburetor.
It may not have enough volatility to fire the engine. The best thing to do is to remove the carb, remove the float bowl, clean it out, check out the needle and seat and set the float height (it gives a big payback later in great fuel economy). Since you are a novice and might be nervous about taking the carb apart (they really are pretty simple, though), the real quick way to determine if the problem is in the fuel system is to use a can of starting fluid. Take the air filter off, spray a 1 second shot of starting fluid into the air cleaner box, put the lid back on, and try starting the car. Try starting the car within 5 second of giving it a shot of starting fluid .... don't worry about the cleaner lid being tightened down with the wingnuts. If it fires (even if just for a second), you have a fuel system problem. If it doesn't fire, your problem is elsewhere.
CAUTION when using starting fluid .... it is highly flammable. Work on the car outside and have a fire extinguisher and a large bucket of water handy.
If the ignition timing is off,  the car could backfire and start a fire in the air cleaner box. Depending on how much oily grime is in and around the box, the fire can spread. As long as your are prepared, you will not have a problem. You normally will not have a fire.
   g) If the car tries to start, no need to change the gas in your fuel tank at this point. Remove the fuel line going into the carb and place it into a clear container. Turn the ignition switch to the start position and let the fuel pump dispense fuel into your container. Inspect the condition of the fuel (is the color similar to fresh gas and does it have a strong gasoline smell ..... usually this will not be the case on old gas).
If you have an extra fuel pump (even a generic electric fuel pump or a Mighty-Vac pump), you could connect to a gas container holding fresh gas and replenish the fuel in the carb. Reattach the fuel line when you are finished.  You can also try heating the carb slightly with a hair dryer ... this raises the volatility. Once the engine does start, the heat of the engine will warm up the gas in the carb and then you are good to go down the road.
That is my take on your situation. If I were betting,   I would wager your problem is related to the fuel system or the spark plugs.
Especially since you indicated you were getting some spark.
good luck,
Dale

> Replaced the coil lead, and got spark! Still won't start, though. Will > try again next weekend. What should I do > next?

James Hawkins · Post by **James Hawkins** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:39 pm

Dale, I sure wish I had your knowledge. You reminded me of one point that has happened to me several times. Spark plugs not firing under compression after being flooded.
Something in the gas [mtbe?] will foul the plugs and not let them fire thru. I have started V8s by cleaning two plugs when it wouldn't fire a lick. Learned that the hard way.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> goinhm@...
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, October 26, 2009 2:51
> PM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: 1971
> AN600 Won't Start
> What I gather from you posts is that;
> 1) it ran fine at some time in the past
> 2) it sat for a period of time without being used
> 3) it doesn't run now
> 4) you are a novice at auto mechanics
> here are some things for you to consider;
> 1) The problem is probably something minor and is probably related > to the fuel system or electrical system
> 2) If you have fuel, air, compression, ignition, and
> proper timing, the engine will start.    So far, the only > item I suspect is present is the air .... it is everywhere. You need to > check out the other items.
>     a) run a compression test. It should be
> around 160 psi
>     b) you tell me you have spark (ignition) but I
> suspect you are not testing for spark under compression. An inline spark > plug tester would help answer this question. There are other ways to > check but I would focus at this time on the other items.
>     c) check the ignition timing. An easy way
> is to hook up a 12 volts bulb (or voltmeter) between the blue wire to the > points and ground. With the ignition switch "on" and as you turn over > the crank manually (17 mm wrench on the crank bolt below the battery > tray), you should see the voltage (light) transition between 12 volts > and zero when the notch on the crank pulley approaches the "F" mark on the > engine case.
>    d) while you are at it, check the mechanical
> timing (as Bill suggested). Although it is unlikely to change from > sitting, it is easy to check. One thing to check is to turn the > crank over until the notch on the crank pulley is at the "T" mark on the > engine casing. If you remove the oil cap and look at the cam holder, you > should see a notch in the camshaft which is facing up. Also, if > you remove the spark plugs, both pistons should be at Top Dead > Center.
>     e) with the spark plugs removed, clean
> them or replace them. Since you are having problems getting your car to > start, I would replace both plugs (keep the old ones, you can use > them at a later time). The NGK part number is B8ES. Set the plug > gap at 0.028 to 0.032 inches.
>       I have a car which used to exhibit the
> same problem as yours .... it worked fine but if I let it sit for a period of > time, it would not start. I was using NippoDenso plugs and they > worked fine when new but if the car sat for several months, they had a > layer of contamination which prevented them from working properly.
> I switched brands on the plugs (I normally run NGK and Autolite.... . I > have a bunch I bought way back during the 20th century) and the problem went > away.  The problem was not entirely the result of the plugs ..... I > also was suspicious of the high voltage wires from the coil to the > plugs.
>     f) check the fuel system. If the car sat
> for a period of time, the fuel system may be contaminated or "gunked" > up. Especially as a result of the alcohol which is now present in the > gasoline.   I would not trust the gas sitting in the > carburetor. It may not have enough volatility to fire the > engine. The best thing to do is to remove the carb, remove the > float bowl, clean it out, check out the needle and seat and set > the float height (it gives a big payback later in great fuel economy).
> Since you are a novice and might be nervous about taking the carb apart (they > really are pretty simple, though), the real quick way to determine if > the problem is in the fuel system is to use a can of starting fluid.
> Take the air filter off, spray a 1 second shot of starting fluid into > the air cleaner box, put the lid back on, and try starting the > car. Try starting the car within 5 second of giving it a shot of starting > fluid .... don't worry about the cleaner lid being tightened down with > the wingnuts. If it fires (even if just for a second), > you have a fuel system problem. If it doesn't fire, your problem > is elsewhere.
> CAUTION when using starting fluid .... it is
> highly flammable. Work on the car outside and have a fire extinguisher > and a large bucket of water handy.
> If the ignition timing is
> off,  the car could backfire and start a fire in the air cleaner > box. Depending on how much oily grime is in and around the box, > the fire can spread. As long as your are prepared, you will not > have a problem. You normally will not have a fire.
>    g) If the car tries to start, no need to change the
> gas in your fuel tank at this point. Remove the fuel line going into the > carb and place it into a clear container. Turn the ignition switch to > the start position and let the fuel pump dispense fuel into your > container. Inspect the condition of the fuel (is the color similar to > fresh gas and does it have a strong gasoline smell ..... usually this will not > be the case on old gas). If you have an extra fuel pump (even a generic > electric fuel pump or a Mighty-Vac pump), you could connect to a gas > container holding fresh gas and replenish the fuel in the carb. Reattach > the fuel line when you are finished.  You can also try heating the > carb slightly with a hair dryer ... this raises the volatility. Once the > engine does start, the heat of the engine will warm up the gas in the > carb and then you are good to go down the road.
> That is my take on your situation. If I were betting,   I > would wager your problem is related to the fuel system or the spark > plugs. Especially since you indicated you were getting some spark.
> good luck,
> Dale
> > Replaced the coil lead, and got spark! Still won't start, > > though. Will try again next weekend. What should I do > > next?
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG -
> www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.32/2460 - Release > Date: 10/26/09 08:10:00