Electronic ignition!

[lyletrudell]

Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's. As usual nothing is available for us!
But, I found this site:
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 & 750...
I bugged him until he finally decided to help me with my Honda coupe.
I got his Yamaha 650 electronic ignition kit and modified it to fit.
Not easy to do as you will see from the pictures.
A new plate, new rotor, special washer and shorter magnets.
Pete, gave me all the electronic info, and ideas to mount and time the unit. I am not good at electronic stuff, but he walked me through it.
Not only does it look good, but it works great too.
Only 3 wires to hookup and it looks totally stock.
Thanks Pete!
See pictures in the picture section.
I will get more info.
Lyle

[lyletrudell]

Poll?
Maybe we should do a poll to see if anybody is interested in an electronic ignition for our Honda's.
No points to wear out, no condensor and timing never changes!
The specs are in the web site:
www.yamahaxs650.com
Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink also.
See the photo section for some pictures of the CNC machined rotor and plate I made.
Both my cars are not on the road, so I will be looking for a test Honda 600 to do a durability run, anyone interested?
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's. As usual nothing is available for us!
> But, I found this site:
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
> The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 & 750...
> I bugged him until he finally decided to help me with my Honda coupe.
> I got his Yamaha 650 electronic ignition kit and modified it to fit.
> Not easy to do as you will see from the pictures.
> A new plate, new rotor, special washer and shorter magnets.
> Pete, gave me all the electronic info, and ideas to mount and time the unit. I am not good at electronic stuff, but he walked me through it.
> Not only does it look good, but it works great too.
> Only 3 wires to hookup and it looks totally stock.
> Thanks Pete!
> See pictures in the picture section.
> I will get more info.
> Lyle

[feltonminicycle]

You should post 1. the cost of the parts kit, 2. the parts kit installed average price by a mechanic and 3. the parts kit installed on the modified points subplate sub assembly exchange program.
Modern electronic ignitions are dependable, but will the kit work inside the area with the points lid installed? Heat is involved not like a distributor on a car, can the pc board endure the heat? Would a louvered lid be possible?
Does the mechanical advance still in use or does a computer make the advance decisions? Just asking because most everyones advancers are worn out and clicky.

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Poll?
> Maybe we should do a poll to see if anybody is interested in an electronic ignition for our Honda's.
> No points to wear out, no condensor and timing never changes!
> The specs are in the web site:
> www.yamahaxs650.com
> Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
> Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
> The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink also.
> See the photo section for some pictures of the CNC machined rotor and plate I made.
> Both my cars are not on the road, so I will be looking for a test Honda 600 to do a durability run, anyone interested?
> Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's. As usual nothing is available for us!
> > But, I found this site:
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
> > The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 & 750...
> > I bugged him until he finally decided to help me with my Honda coupe.
> > I got his Yamaha 650 electronic ignition kit and modified it to fit.
> > Not easy to do as you will see from the pictures.
> > A new plate, new rotor, special washer and shorter magnets.
> > Pete, gave me all the electronic info, and ideas to mount and time the unit. I am not good at electronic stuff, but he walked me through it.
> > Not only does it look good, but it works great too.
> > Only 3 wires to hookup and it looks totally stock.
> > Thanks Pete!
> > See pictures in the picture section.
> > I will get more info.
> > Lyle

[lyletrudell]

Miles, good questions. Not sure how to do this project or if there is enough interest to do a small production run. Pete is a good guy and has offered to help us. I will also help to make this happen.
Any suggestions are welcome.
I ordered the Yamaha kit from Pete and pulled the Hall unit off.
Could not use the rotor or plate.
Pete's electronic and mechanical knowledge was a big factor in even considering this project. If we do want to go with making these we will need him to help us.
Plate, I measured the old Honda plate and made an adapter plate to mount his electronics. Not that easy because of getting the magnets and hall sensor in the right orientation.
Rotor, the Yamaha 2 cylinder rotor is pretty simple, the advance unit is on the opposite side of the motor.
But, our Honda 600 rotor is complex because of the slots for the advance dogs,magnet holes, close tolerance ID bore and recessed bore for a special washer.
Not an easy part to manufacture or deburr.
I wanted it to be a basic bolt in assembly.
*Simple 3 wire hookup, no computer.
*Use stock coil and plugs or upgrade if you want.
*Use stock advance plate and vacuum unit, like Miles said it must be in good condition, because it still is used for advance control.
*Bolt adapter plate and electronics on with 2 screws.
*Just remove old rotor and install new one.
*Unit clears stock cover.
Heat issue, the rotor and adapter plate will be aluminum, great heat sinks. The electronic unit is insulated from the plate with non-conductive spacers. The Yamaha 650 ignition has proven to be very dependable. See Pete's web site.
www.yamahaxs650.com
Pricing, that will depend on how many units we make.
The 650 Yamaha is a very popular motorcycle and has been produced for years.
Our Honda's are low volume at best, maybe we could sell 50-100 units max.
Price if the Honda folks come up with a plan, could be in the $120-150 range, no profit for sure.
If I do CNC machine parts for the ignition kits, they will be for club members only and for off road use or racing use only.
Contact me if you want to get in on this project.
craft59@...
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "feltonminicycle" wrote:
> You should post 1. the cost of the parts kit, 2. the parts kit installed average price by a mechanic and 3. the parts kit installed on the modified points subplate sub assembly exchange program.
> Modern electronic ignitions are dependable, but will the kit work inside the area with the points lid installed? Heat is involved not like a distributor on a car, can the pc board endure the heat? Would a louvered lid be possible?
> Does the mechanical advance still in use or does a computer make the advance decisions? Just asking because most everyones advancers are worn out and clicky.
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Poll?
> > Maybe we should do a poll to see if anybody is interested in an electronic ignition for our Honda's.
> > No points to wear out, no condensor and timing never changes!
> > The specs are in the web site:
> > www.yamahaxs650.com
> > Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
> > Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
> > The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink also.
> > See the photo section for some pictures of the CNC machined rotor and plate I made.
> > Both my cars are not on the road, so I will be looking for a test Honda 600 to do a durability run, anyone interested?
> > Lyle
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's. As usual nothing is available for us!
> > > But, I found this site:
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
> > > The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 & 750...
> > > I bugged him until he finally decided to help me with my Honda coupe.
> > > I got his Yamaha 650 electronic ignition kit and modified it to fit.
> > > Not easy to do as you will see from the pictures.
> > > A new plate, new rotor, special washer and shorter magnets.
> > > Pete, gave me all the electronic info, and ideas to mount and time the unit. I am not good at electronic stuff, but he walked me through it.
> > > Not only does it look good, but it works great too.
> > > Only 3 wires to hookup and it looks totally stock.
> > > Thanks Pete!
> > > See pictures in the picture section.
> > > I will get more info.
> > > Lyle

[lyletrudell]

Hi Miles, I want to get some temp readings in the point housing.
Anybody want to check the temp? Harbor Freight Tools
sells them for less than $10.
Pete, says the Yamaha point housing is about 200F.
My Honda's are apart so I can't check it.
Thanks
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Miles, good questions. Not sure how to do this project or if there is enough interest to do a small production run. Pete is a good guy and has offered to help us. I will also help to make this happen.
> Any suggestions are welcome.
> I ordered the Yamaha kit from Pete and pulled the Hall unit off.
> Could not use the rotor or plate.
> Pete's electronic and mechanical knowledge was a big factor in even considering this project. If we do want to go with making these we will need him to help us.
> Plate, I measured the old Honda plate and made an adapter plate to mount his electronics. Not that easy because of getting the magnets and hall sensor in the right orientation.
> Rotor, the Yamaha 2 cylinder rotor is pretty simple, the advance unit is on the opposite side of the motor.
> But, our Honda 600 rotor is complex because of the slots for the advance dogs,magnet holes, close tolerance ID bore and recessed bore for a special washer.
> Not an easy part to manufacture or deburr.
> I wanted it to be a basic bolt in assembly.
> *Simple 3 wire hookup, no computer.
> *Use stock coil and plugs or upgrade if you want.
> *Use stock advance plate and vacuum unit, like Miles said it must be in good condition, because it still is used for advance control.
> *Bolt adapter plate and electronics on with 2 screws.
> *Just remove old rotor and install new one.
> *Unit clears stock cover.
> Heat issue, the rotor and adapter plate will be aluminum, great heat sinks. The electronic unit is insulated from the plate with non-conductive spacers. The Yamaha 650 ignition has proven to be very dependable. See Pete's web site.
> www.yamahaxs650.com
> Pricing, that will depend on how many units we make.
> The 650 Yamaha is a very popular motorcycle and has been produced for years.
> Our Honda's are low volume at best, maybe we could sell 50-100 units max.
> Price if the Honda folks come up with a plan, could be in the $120-150 range, no profit for sure.
> If I do CNC machine parts for the ignition kits, they will be for club members only and for off road use or racing use only.
> Contact me if you want to get in on this project.
> craft59@
> Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "feltonminicycle" wrote:
> > You should post 1. the cost of the parts kit, 2. the parts kit installed average price by a mechanic and 3. the parts kit installed on the modified points subplate sub assembly exchange program.
> > Modern electronic ignitions are dependable, but will the kit work inside the area with the points lid installed? Heat is involved not like a distributor on a car, can the pc board endure the heat? Would a louvered lid be possible?
> > Does the mechanical advance still in use or does a computer make the advance decisions? Just asking because most everyones advancers are worn out and clicky.
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Poll?
> > > Maybe we should do a poll to see if anybody is interested in an electronic ignition for our Honda's.
> > > No points to wear out, no condensor and timing never changes!
> > > The specs are in the web site:
> > > www.yamahaxs650.com
> > > Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
> > > Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
> > > The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink also.
> > > See the photo section for some pictures of the CNC machined rotor and plate I made.
> > > Both my cars are not on the road, so I will be looking for a test Honda 600 to do a durability run, anyone interested?
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's. As usual nothing is available for us!
> > > > But, I found this site:
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
> > > > The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 & 750...
> > > > I bugged him until he finally decided to help me with my Honda coupe.
> > > > I got his Yamaha 650 electronic ignition kit and modified it to fit.
> > > > Not easy to do as you will see from the pictures.
> > > > A new plate, new rotor, special washer and shorter magnets.
> > > > Pete, gave me all the electronic info, and ideas to mount and time the unit. I am not good at electronic stuff, but he walked me through it.
> > > > Not only does it look good, but it works great too.
> > > > Only 3 wires to hookup and it looks totally stock.
> > > > Thanks Pete!
> > > > See pictures in the picture section.
> > > > I will get more info.
> > > > Lyle

[honda600wiz]

engine temp on the Honda 600 can exceed 500F, not sure the temp at the point area but I would think it is over 200 F. Worth the try for sure, just want have many owners ready to fork out the dough from past experience with improvements like this, I have no problem trying one out on my sedan, which will very soon have a alternator and electric fan, we must all play together to keep the cars on the road and as we move forward and some parts becoming more difficulty to locate
--> >

[feltonminicycle]

Bill Colford should have all the temp readings as he is a huge fan of the oil coolers. A hand held laser temp meter should work but a static reading would be needed inside the area with the lid on.

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "honda600wiz" wrote:
> engine temp on the Honda 600 can exceed 500F, not sure the temp at the point area but I would think it is over 200 F. Worth the try for sure, just want have many owners ready to fork out the dough from past experience with improvements like this, I have no problem trying one out on my sedan, which will very soon have a alternator and electric fan, we must all play together to keep the cars on the road and as we move forward and some parts becoming more difficulty to locate
> --> >

[lyletrudell]

Will Email Bill about the temp readings in the ignition area.
Bill said 340-350 under the spark plug which is one of the hottest areas on the engine. That is exactly what our air cooled motorcycles and Go-karts run.
Oil temp should read 240-250F.
I still think with all the fins and being so far away from the combustion chambers that the ignition will be 200-220 max.
honda600wiz, where did you measure a temp reading of above 500F?
The engine oil would be getting close to the flash point!
No air cooled engine could take that temp.
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "feltonminicycle" wrote:
> Bill Colford should have all the temp readings as he is a huge fan of the oil coolers. A hand held laser temp meter should work but a static reading would be needed inside the area with the lid on.
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "honda600wiz" wrote:
> > engine temp on the Honda 600 can exceed 500F, not sure the temp at the point area but I would think it is over 200 F. Worth the try for sure, just want have many owners ready to fork out the dough from past experience with improvements like this, I have no problem trying one out on my sedan, which will very soon have a alternator and electric fan, we must all play together to keep the cars on the road and as we move forward and some parts becoming more difficulty to locate
> > --> >