Head Gasket

Archived posts from the 2 Cylinder Hondas Yahoo Group
Tran Nguyen
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by Tran Nguyen »

thats a wild setup! any more pics?
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
From: jpro8071@...
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:15:00 +0000
Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
Unfortunately I'm one of those people that can't remember the different AN fitting sizes, so I'll have to take a closer look at the system to see what size hoses I'm using.
Bill's adapter removes the stock paper filter element. It has an "out" and an "in" fitting.
From the "out" fitting we run a line to an very large external oil filter (the same filter a Ford 302 would run) - and we've got an aftermarket larger capacity (and more efficient) oil filter. A little ways after the filter we have a T fitting. Off of it comes a smaller line that feeds the head, and one that is the same size as the "out" line that goes to the "in" section on Bill's adapter. (When we run a cooler, the cooler goes between the "out" and the oil filter, so that the oil going into the head has been cooled also.) The smaller line for the head travels maybe 2 or 3 feet to another "T" fitting where we break off two equal size lines to the top of the head. (Remember - we don't have oil flowing up the cylinders to feed the cam/top end and one main bearing via gravity.) You can see the lines to the top of the head here:
http://images.garagecity.com/49/97/f1_i ... n.orig.jpg The photo is a little confusing - there are two lines with brass fittings that are the fuel injectors. The two fittings with the blue 90 degree fittings are where the oil get dumped into the top end.
Besides the benefit of cooling the oil, you also add a quart to a quart and a half more capacity, which I think is a plus.
I think next time we'll put some rare-earth magnets inside the oil filter and maybe even epoxied inside the case.
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> I have my oil pump out. How about some more detail on the modified oil path from the oil cooler. The oil cooler to me is the best addition to any air cooled engine. I am not racing but better oiling is always a good thing.
> Thanks
> Lyle
> Craft59@...
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > We run Bill's oil cooler. Plus the oil to feed the top end (cam) (and one of the mains via gravity) is fed from a feed off of the oil cooler. So the oil that feeds the top basically does NOT go up cylinders, which helps to keep it cooler.
> > Plus we ran Mile's remanufactured oil pump.
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Yes, the crank is a weak point for sure, the new crank should be a good way to save some engines.
> > > The oil pump system also is a weak link, have you done anything with the pump?
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > For production you do have to stay stock in the valve configuration, so only 2 valves for the Z/N 600s. (You can change the port angle if you've got the time and $$.)
> > > > And we did offset the bore (and re-sleeve) to comfortably get the 700cc size. 750 can be done, but I'd rather spend the whole week racing than melt down the first day after spending a year preparing.
> > > > I've talked more with my sponsor about building cranks. He's gotten a bit more excited by the idea, which is why I posted the poll on after-market cranks. (My goal would be to come up with something so I can get my 750cc motor, and everyone else can get a new crank/piston setup that gets them a little more displacement and power along with the comfort of knowing it's new and should last a long time . . . )
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > Wow, that is some open rules.
> > > > > The "Stock block" really opens it up for a 4 valve head design!
> > > > > Maybe Re-sleeve the block, offset wider so you can bore it out to 750.
> > > > > So many high tech engines out today to take parts from.
> > > > > I would love to go see the cars run.
> > > > > The worlds fastest Indian was a cool movie!
> > > > > Lyle
> > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > The class is actually limited to 750cc, and since newer production cars can run EFI, they allow older cars to. (There is a "classic" production class for larger displacement - carbs or mechanical fuel injection only.)
> > > > > > My sponsor was only comfortable pushing things to 700cc. I'm pretty sure that 750cc has been done on a stock stroke, but it makes for very thin cylinder walls. There are also some issues with space for sealing the head gasket.
> > > > > > The two main parts of the production class is having the "stock" block, and the body having the stock configuration.
> > > > > > Bonneville is quite an experience. You can really get up close and "look under the hood" of most of the cars. People are really friendly, like to answer questions. If anyone out there plans on running a vehicle, I highly advise attending once to spectate. Get a feel for the process, environment, rules, etc..
> > > > > > And of course if anyone plans on going out to spectate, let me know. If I'm out there I'm happy to share my pits and perhaps show you around.
> > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > > Nice job on the car. Like the ignition system and fuel injection.
> > > > > > > Are you in a stock under 700cc class? I didn't think you could modify the car that much without going into the unlimited class.
> > > > > > > Bonneville would be so cool to go watch or run.
> > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > You can read more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97//
> > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure they were water cut, but I could be wrong.
> > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > jpro, your Bonneville Honda sounds interesting, where do I go to see what you have done? Pictures/info.
> > > > > > > > > Good idea with the copper gasket.
> > > > > > > > > Do you get them laser cut or water jet?
> > > > > > > > > A cheap way for a batch run.
> > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I just read my post and realized it wasn't that clear - I'm talking about head gaskets made from one piece of copper with no other gasket material involved.
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Since no water is involved, all copper head gaskets work great. We've been using them on the Bonneville Honda for years with great success. PM me if you have interest in getting one and I'll see what sort of bulk deal I can arrange.
jpro8071
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:18 am

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by jpro8071 »

There are a handful more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97/
Plus I've got some "Bonneville Honda" folders and I think a "Fuel Injection" folder here in the group.
A very very flattering write up:
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009/08 ... ville.aspx
(But you can see how tired/rough the car has become . . . hence the retirement.)
And a first - dyno tuning on the salt flats of Bonneville:
http://jalopnik.com/5336932/testing-and ... vil-tweety
(Yes, it was missing . . . this was the first time ever I'd gotten it set up.)
And I hope I'm not monopolizing the group right now. I've got a lot of respect for the folks that keep these babies stock, or restore one. We started with a "salvaged" titled car that was in rough shape, and I hope to some day "give back" to the Honda 600 community by sharing information and maybe helping to get some parts remade or repaired.
Believe me - if you have a stock/complete car, keep it that way. These cars are getting rarer and more desirable. There is a new trend in getting a "vintage" small displacement car. They are becoming very cool (as well as very smart money-wise at the pump.)
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Tran Nguyen wrote:
> thats a wild setup! any more pics?
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> From: jpro8071@...
> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:15:00 +0000
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
> Unfortunately I'm one of those people that can't remember the different AN fitting sizes, so I'll have to take a closer look at the system to see what size hoses I'm using.
> Bill's adapter removes the stock paper filter element. It has an "out" and an "in" fitting.
> From the "out" fitting we run a line to an very large external oil filter (the same filter a Ford 302 would run) - and we've got an aftermarket larger capacity (and more efficient) oil filter. A little ways after the filter we have a T fitting. Off of it comes a smaller line that feeds the head, and one that is the same size as the "out" line that goes to the "in" section on Bill's adapter. (When we run a cooler, the cooler goes between the "out" and the oil filter, so that the oil going into the head has been cooled also.)
> The smaller line for the head travels maybe 2 or 3 feet to another "T" fitting where we break off two equal size lines to the top of the head. (Remember - we don't have oil flowing up the cylinders to feed the cam/top end and one main bearing via gravity.)
> You can see the lines to the top of the head here:
http://images.garagecity.com/49/97/f1_i ... n.orig.jpg
> The photo is a little confusing - there are two lines with brass fittings that are the fuel injectors. The two fittings with the blue 90 degree fittings are where the oil get dumped into the top end.
> Besides the benefit of cooling the oil, you also add a quart to a quart and a half more capacity, which I think is a plus.
> I think next time we'll put some rare-earth magnets inside the oil filter and maybe even epoxied inside the case.
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > I have my oil pump out. How about some more detail on the modified oil path from the oil cooler. The oil cooler to me is the best addition to any air cooled engine. I am not racing but better oiling is always a good thing.
> > Thanks
> > Lyle
> > Craft59@
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > We run Bill's oil cooler. Plus the oil to feed the top end (cam) (and one of the mains via gravity) is fed from a feed off of the oil cooler. So the oil that feeds the top basically does NOT go up cylinders, which helps to keep it cooler.
> > > Plus we ran Mile's remanufactured oil pump.
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > Yes, the crank is a weak point for sure, the new crank should be a good way to save some engines.
> > > > The oil pump system also is a weak link, have you done anything with the pump?
> > > > Lyle
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > For production you do have to stay stock in the valve configuration, so only 2 valves for the Z/N 600s. (You can change the port angle if you've got the time and $$.)
> > > > > And we did offset the bore (and re-sleeve) to comfortably get the 700cc size. 750 can be done, but I'd rather spend the whole week racing than melt down the first day after spending a year preparing.
> > > > > I've talked more with my sponsor about building cranks. He's gotten a bit more excited by the idea, which is why I posted the poll on after-market cranks. (My goal would be to come up with something so I can get my 750cc motor, and everyone else can get a new crank/piston setup that gets them a little more displacement and power along with the comfort of knowing it's new and should last a long time . . . )
> > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > Wow, that is some open rules.
> > > > > > The "Stock block" really opens it up for a 4 valve head design!
> > > > > > Maybe Re-sleeve the block, offset wider so you can bore it out to 750.
> > > > > > So many high tech engines out today to take parts from.
> > > > > > I would love to go see the cars run.
> > > > > > The worlds fastest Indian was a cool movie!
> > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > The class is actually limited to 750cc, and since newer production cars can run EFI, they allow older cars to. (There is a "classic" production class for larger displacement - carbs or mechanical fuel injection only.)
> > > > > > > My sponsor was only comfortable pushing things to 700cc. I'm pretty sure that 750cc has been done on a stock stroke, but it makes for very thin cylinder walls. There are also some issues with space for sealing the head gasket.
> > > > > > > The two main parts of the production class is having the "stock" block, and the body having the stock configuration.
> > > > > > > Bonneville is quite an experience. You can really get up close and "look under the hood" of most of the cars. People are really friendly, like to answer questions. If anyone out there plans on running a vehicle, I highly advise attending once to spectate. Get a feel for the process, environment, rules, etc..
> > > > > > > And of course if anyone plans on going out to spectate, let me know. If I'm out there I'm happy to share my pits and perhaps show you around.
> > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > > > Nice job on the car. Like the ignition system and fuel injection.
> > > > > > > > Are you in a stock under 700cc class? I didn't think you could modify the car that much without going into the unlimited class.
> > > > > > > > Bonneville would be so cool to go watch or run.
> > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > You can read more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97//
> > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure they were water cut, but I could be wrong.
> > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > jpro, your Bonneville Honda sounds interesting, where do I go to see what you have done? Pictures/info.
> > > > > > > > > > Good idea with the copper gasket.
> > > > > > > > > > Do you get them laser cut or water jet?
> > > > > > > > > > A cheap way for a batch run.
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I just read my post and realized it wasn't that clear - I'm talking about head gaskets made from one piece of copper with no other gasket material involved.
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Since no water is involved, all copper head gaskets work great. We've been using them on the Bonneville Honda for years with great success. PM me if you have interest in getting one and I'll see what sort of bulk deal I can arrange.
friend
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:54 pm

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by friend »

Eric;
    Really great shots, lots of coverage and meaningful representation of the first Honda's brought into the USA.  It's not often we see this much energy placed in a vehicle not known for it's racing prowess.  To bad the salt worm is getting to it's body.
    Question, what is it's weight in racing garb?
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > jpro8071 > Sent:
> Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:32
> AM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville
> Honda)
> There are a handful more here:
> http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97/
> Plus
> I've got some "Bonneville Honda" folders and I think a "Fuel Injection" folder > here in the group.
> A very very flattering write up:
> http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009/08 ... ville.aspx > (But > you can see how tired/rough the car has become . . . hence the > retirement.) > And a first - dyno tuning on the salt flats of > Bonneville:
> http://jalopnik.com/5336932/testing-and ... vil-tweety > (Yes, > it was missing . . . this was the first time ever I'd gotten it set > up.) > And I hope I'm not monopolizing the group right now. I've got a > lot of respect for the folks that keep these babies stock, or restore one. We > started with a "salvaged" titled car that was in rough shape, and I hope to > some day "give back" to the Honda 600 community by sharing information and > maybe helping to get some parts remade or repaired.
> Believe me - if you
> have a stock/complete car, keep it that way. These cars are getting rarer and > more desirable. There is a new trend in getting a "vintage" small displacement > car. They are becoming very cool (as well as very smart money-wise at the > pump.) > --- In > 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com > , > Tran Nguyen wrote:
> > thats a wild
> setup! any more pics?
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> From: jpro8071@...
> > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:15:00 +0000
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
> > Unfortunately I'm one of
> those people that can't remember the different AN fitting sizes, so I'll have > to take a closer look at the system to see what size hoses I'm using.
> > Bill's adapter removes the stock paper filter element. It has an > "out" and an "in" fitting.
> > From the "out" fitting we run a
> line to an very large external oil filter (the same filter a Ford 302 would > run) - and we've got an aftermarket larger capacity (and more efficient) oil > filter. A little ways after the filter we have a T fitting. Off of it comes a > smaller line that feeds the head, and one that is the same size as the "out" > line that goes to the "in" section on Bill's adapter. (When we run a cooler, > the cooler goes between the "out" and the oil filter, so that the oil going > into the head has been cooled also.)
> > The smaller line for the
> head travels maybe 2 or 3 feet to another "T" fitting where we break off two > equal size lines to the top of the head. (Remember - we don't have oil flowing > up the cylinders to feed the cam/top end and one main bearing via > gravity.)
> > You can see the lines to the top of the head
> here:
> http://images.garagecity.com/49/97/f1_i ... n.orig.jpg
> > The photo is a little confusing - there are two lines with brass > fittings that are the fuel injectors. The two fittings with the blue 90 degree > fittings are where the oil get dumped into the top end.
> Besides the benefit of cooling the oil, you also add a quart to a quart and a > half more capacity, which I think is a plus.
> > I think next
> time we'll put some rare-earth magnets inside the oil filter and maybe even > epoxied inside the case.
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > I have my
> oil pump out. How about some more detail on the modified oil path from the oil > cooler. The oil cooler to me is the best addition to any air cooled engine. I > am not racing but better oiling is always a good thing.
> Thanks
> > > Lyle
> > > Craft59@
> > > ---
> In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > We run
> Bill's oil cooler. Plus the oil to feed the top end (cam) (and one of the > mains via gravity) is fed from a feed off of the oil cooler. So the oil that > feeds the top basically does NOT go up cylinders, which helps to keep it > cooler.
> > > > Plus we ran Mile's remanufactured
> oil pump.
> > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Yes, the crank is a weak point for sure, the new crank should be a > good way to save some engines.
> > > > > The oil pump system also
> is a weak link, have you done anything with the pump?
> Lyle
> > > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > For production you do have to stay stock in the valve > configuration, so only 2 valves for the Z/N 600s. (You can change the port > angle if you've got the time and $$.)
> > > > > And we did offset the bore (and re-sleeve) to comfortably > get the 700cc size. 750 can be done, but I'd rather spend the whole week > racing than melt down the first day after spending a year preparing.
> > > > > > I've talked more with my
> sponsor about building cranks. He's gotten a bit more excited by the idea, > which is why I posted the poll on after-market cranks. (My goal would be to > come up with something so I can get my 750cc motor, and everyone else can get > a new crank/piston setup that gets them a little more displacement and power > along with the comfort of knowing it's new and should last a long time . . .
> )
> > > > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > > Wow, that is some open rules.
> > > > > > The "Stock block" really opens it up for a 4 valve > head design!
> > > > > > > Maybe Re-sleeve the block,
> offset wider so you can bore it out to 750.
> So many high tech engines out today to take parts from.
> > > I would love to go see the cars run.
> > The worlds fastest Indian was a cool movie!
> > Lyle
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > The class is actually limited to
> 750cc, and since newer production cars can run EFI, they allow older cars to.
> (There is a "classic" production class for larger displacement - carbs or > mechanical fuel injection only.)
> > > > > > > > My sponsor was only comfortable pushing
> things to 700cc. I'm pretty sure that 750cc has been done on a stock stroke, > but it makes for very thin cylinder walls. There are also some issues with > space for sealing the head gasket.
> > > > > > > > The two main parts of the production
> class is having the "stock" block, and the body having the stock > configuration.
> > > > Bonneville is quite an experience. You can really get up close > and "look under the hood" of most of the cars. People are really friendly, > like to answer questions. If anyone out there plans on running a vehicle, I > highly advise attending once to spectate. Get a feel for the process, > environment, rules, etc..
> > > > > > And of course if anyone plans on going out to
> spectate, let me know. If I'm out there I'm happy to share my pits and perhaps > show you around.
> > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Nice job on the car. Like
> the ignition system and fuel injection.
> > Are you in a stock under 700cc class? I didn't think you could modify the > car that much without going into the unlimited class.
> > > > > Bonneville would be so cool to go watch or run.
> > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > You can read more
> here:
> http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97//
> > > I'm pretty sure they were water cut, but I could be wrong.
> > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > jpro,
> your Bonneville Honda sounds interesting, where do I go to see what you have > done? Pictures/info.
> > > > > > > > > > > Good
> idea with the copper gasket.
> > Do you get them laser cut or water jet?
> > > > > A cheap way for a batch run.
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I
> just read my post and realized it wasn't that clear - I'm talking about head > gaskets made from one piece of copper with no other gasket material > involved.
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "jpro8071" wrote:
> > Since no water is involved, all copper head gaskets work great. We've > been using them on the Bonneville Honda for years with great success. PM me if > you have interest in getting one and I'll see what sort of bulk deal I can > arrange.
jpro8071
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:18 am

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by jpro8071 »

Thanks Bill! I haven't weighed the car since before the roll cage was put in. It might actually be a bit of a wash.
The exhaust system is probably lighter, most of the interior is out (seats, carpets and sound deadening material), plus we've removed the break booster and heater fan.
Added weight includes the roll cage (6 point, plus some added pipes for the push bar), a bigger battery, a 5# fire bottle (that's the weight of the powder, it actually weights more) plus a 1/4" plate where the rear passenger foot well was - where we mount the battery and the fire bottle.
I would imagine the loom and electronics add several pounds as well. I'll have to go find a scale next time I'm out driving and see what the net change is.
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> Eric;
> Really great shots, lots of coverage and meaningful representation of
> the first Honda's brought into the USA. It's not often we see this much
> energy placed in a vehicle not known for it's racing prowess. To bad the
> salt worm is getting to it's body.
> Question, what is it's weight in racing garb?
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of jpro8071
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:32 AM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
> There are a handful more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97/
> Plus I've got some "Bonneville Honda" folders and I think a "Fuel
> Injection" folder here in the group.
> A very very flattering write up:
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009/08 ... cars-bonne
> ville.aspx
> (But you can see how tired/rough the car has become . . . hence the
> retirement.)
> And a first - dyno tuning on the salt flats of Bonneville:
http://jalopnik.com/5336932/testing-and ... vil-tweety
> (Yes, it was missing . . . this was the first time ever I'd gotten it set
> up.)
> And I hope I'm not monopolizing the group right now. I've got a lot of
> respect for the folks that keep these babies stock, or restore one. We
> started with a "salvaged" titled car that was in rough shape, and I hope to
> some day "give back" to the Honda 600 community by sharing information and
> maybe helping to get some parts remade or repaired.
> Believe me - if you have a stock/complete car, keep it that way. These
> cars are getting rarer and more desirable. There is a new trend in getting a
> "vintage" small displacement car. They are becoming very cool (as well as
> very smart money-wise at the pump.)
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Tran Nguyen wrote:
> > thats a wild setup! any more pics?
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > From: jpro8071@
> > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:15:00 +0000
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
> > Unfortunately I'm one of those people that can't remember the different
> AN fitting sizes, so I'll have to take a closer look at the system to see
> what size hoses I'm using.
> > Bill's adapter removes the stock paper filter element. It has an "out"
> and an "in" fitting.
> > From the "out" fitting we run a line to an very large external oil
> filter (the same filter a Ford 302 would run) - and we've got an aftermarket
> larger capacity (and more efficient) oil filter. A little ways after the
> filter we have a T fitting. Off of it comes a smaller line that feeds the
> head, and one that is the same size as the "out" line that goes to the "in"
> section on Bill's adapter. (When we run a cooler, the cooler goes between
> the "out" and the oil filter, so that the oil going into the head has been
> cooled also.)
> > The smaller line for the head travels maybe 2 or 3 feet to another "T"
> fitting where we break off two equal size lines to the top of the head.
> (Remember - we don't have oil flowing up the cylinders to feed the cam/top
> end and one main bearing via gravity.)
> > You can see the lines to the top of the head here:
http://images.garagecity.com/49/97/f1_i ... n.orig.jpg
> > The photo is a little confusing - there are two lines with brass
> fittings that are the fuel injectors. The two fittings with the blue 90
> degree fittings are where the oil get dumped into the top end.
> > Besides the benefit of cooling the oil, you also add a quart to a quart
> and a half more capacity, which I think is a plus.
> > I think next time we'll put some rare-earth magnets inside the oil
> filter and maybe even epoxied inside the case.
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> wrote:
> > > I have my oil pump out. How about some more detail on the modified oil
> path from the oil cooler. The oil cooler to me is the best addition to any
> air cooled engine. I am not racing but better oiling is always a good thing.
> > > Thanks
> > > Lyle
> > > Craft59@
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > We run Bill's oil cooler. Plus the oil to feed the top end (cam)
> (and one of the mains via gravity) is fed from a feed off of the oil cooler.
> So the oil that feeds the top basically does NOT go up cylinders, which
> helps to keep it cooler.
> > > > Plus we ran Mile's remanufactured oil pump.
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> wrote:
> > > > > Yes, the crank is a weak point for sure, the new crank should be a
> good way to save some engines.
> > > > > The oil pump system also is a weak link, have you done anything
> with the pump?
> > > > > Lyle
> > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> wrote:
> > > > > > For production you do have to stay stock in the valve
> configuration, so only 2 valves for the Z/N 600s. (You can change the port
> angle if you've got the time and $$.)
> > > > > > And we did offset the bore (and re-sleeve) to comfortably get
> the 700cc size. 750 can be done, but I'd rather spend the whole week racing
> than melt down the first day after spending a year preparing.
> > > > > > I've talked more with my sponsor about building cranks. He's
> gotten a bit more excited by the idea, which is why I posted the poll on
> after-market cranks. (My goal would be to come up with something so I can
> get my 750cc motor, and everyone else can get a new crank/piston setup that
> gets them a little more displacement and power along with the comfort of
> knowing it's new and should last a long time . . . )
> > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> wrote:
> > > > > > > Wow, that is some open rules.
> > > > > > > The "Stock block" really opens it up for a 4 valve head
> design!
> > > > > > > Maybe Re-sleeve the block, offset wider so you can bore it out
> to 750.
> > > > > > > So many high tech engines out today to take parts from.
> > > > > > > I would love to go see the cars run.
> > > > > > > The worlds fastest Indian was a cool movie!
> > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > The class is actually limited to 750cc, and since newer
> production cars can run EFI, they allow older cars to. (There is a "classic"
> production class for larger displacement - carbs or mechanical fuel
> injection only.)
> > > > > > > > My sponsor was only comfortable pushing things to 700cc. I'm
> pretty sure that 750cc has been done on a stock stroke, but it makes for
> very thin cylinder walls. There are also some issues with space for sealing
> the head gasket.
> > > > > > > > The two main parts of the production class is having the
> "stock" block, and the body having the stock configuration.
> > > > > > > > Bonneville is quite an experience. You can really get up
> close and "look under the hood" of most of the cars. People are really
> friendly, like to answer questions. If anyone out there plans on running a
> vehicle, I highly advise attending once to spectate. Get a feel for the
> process, environment, rules, etc..
> > > > > > > > And of course if anyone plans on going out to spectate, let
> me know. If I'm out there I'm happy to share my pits and perhaps show you
> around.
> > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Nice job on the car. Like the ignition system and fuel
> injection.
> > > > > > > > > Are you in a stock under 700cc class? I didn't think you
> could modify the car that much without going into the unlimited class.
> > > > > > > > > Bonneville would be so cool to go watch or run.
> > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > You can read more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97//
> > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure they were water cut, but I could be
> wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > jpro, your Bonneville Honda sounds interesting, where
> do I go to see what you have done? Pictures/info.
> > > > > > > > > > > Good idea with the copper gasket.
> > > > > > > > > > > Do you get them laser cut or water jet?
> > > > > > > > > > > A cheap way for a batch run.
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I just read my post and realized it wasn't that
> clear - I'm talking about head gaskets made from one piece of copper with no
> other gasket material involved.
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since no water is involved, all copper head
> gaskets work great. We've been using them on the Bonneville Honda for years
> with great success. PM me if you have interest in getting one and I'll see
> what sort of bulk deal I can arrange.
lyletrudell
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:54 pm

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by lyletrudell »

Jpro, now that I have my oil pump out and see how it works. I guess it's OK for a stock engine.
Have you looked into a remote oil pump system.
For a race engine like yours, I don't think the on/off flow stock piston pump is ideal!
A gear driven pump would be better.
Just a thought.
Lyle
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> Thanks Bill! I haven't weighed the car since before the roll cage was put in. It might actually be a bit of a wash.
> The exhaust system is probably lighter, most of the interior is out (seats, carpets and sound deadening material), plus we've removed the break booster and heater fan.
> Added weight includes the roll cage (6 point, plus some added pipes for the push bar), a bigger battery, a 5# fire bottle (that's the weight of the powder, it actually weights more) plus a 1/4" plate where the rear passenger foot well was - where we mount the battery and the fire bottle.
> I would imagine the loom and electronics add several pounds as well. I'll have to go find a scale next time I'm out driving and see what the net change is.
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > Eric;
> > Really great shots, lots of coverage and meaningful representation of
> > the first Honda's brought into the USA. It's not often we see this much
> > energy placed in a vehicle not known for it's racing prowess. To bad the
> > salt worm is getting to it's body.
> > Question, what is it's weight in racing garb?
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of jpro8071
> > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:32 AM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
> > There are a handful more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97/
> > Plus I've got some "Bonneville Honda" folders and I think a "Fuel
> > Injection" folder here in the group.
> > A very very flattering write up:
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009/08 ... cars-bonne
> > ville.aspx
> > (But you can see how tired/rough the car has become . . . hence the
> > retirement.)
> > And a first - dyno tuning on the salt flats of Bonneville:
http://jalopnik.com/5336932/testing-and ... vil-tweety
> > (Yes, it was missing . . . this was the first time ever I'd gotten it set
> > up.)
> > And I hope I'm not monopolizing the group right now. I've got a lot of
> > respect for the folks that keep these babies stock, or restore one. We
> > started with a "salvaged" titled car that was in rough shape, and I hope to
> > some day "give back" to the Honda 600 community by sharing information and
> > maybe helping to get some parts remade or repaired.
> > Believe me - if you have a stock/complete car, keep it that way. These
> > cars are getting rarer and more desirable. There is a new trend in getting a
> > "vintage" small displacement car. They are becoming very cool (as well as
> > very smart money-wise at the pump.)
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Tran Nguyen wrote:
> > > thats a wild setup! any more pics?
> > > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: jpro8071@
> > > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:15:00 +0000
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
> > > Unfortunately I'm one of those people that can't remember the different
> > AN fitting sizes, so I'll have to take a closer look at the system to see
> > what size hoses I'm using.
> > > Bill's adapter removes the stock paper filter element. It has an "out"
> > and an "in" fitting.
> > > From the "out" fitting we run a line to an very large external oil
> > filter (the same filter a Ford 302 would run) - and we've got an aftermarket
> > larger capacity (and more efficient) oil filter. A little ways after the
> > filter we have a T fitting. Off of it comes a smaller line that feeds the
> > head, and one that is the same size as the "out" line that goes to the "in"
> > section on Bill's adapter. (When we run a cooler, the cooler goes between
> > the "out" and the oil filter, so that the oil going into the head has been
> > cooled also.)
> > > The smaller line for the head travels maybe 2 or 3 feet to another "T"
> > fitting where we break off two equal size lines to the top of the head.
> > (Remember - we don't have oil flowing up the cylinders to feed the cam/top
> > end and one main bearing via gravity.)
> > > You can see the lines to the top of the head here:
http://images.garagecity.com/49/97/f1_i ... n.orig.jpg
> > > The photo is a little confusing - there are two lines with brass
> > fittings that are the fuel injectors. The two fittings with the blue 90
> > degree fittings are where the oil get dumped into the top end.
> > > Besides the benefit of cooling the oil, you also add a quart to a quart
> > and a half more capacity, which I think is a plus.
> > > I think next time we'll put some rare-earth magnets inside the oil
> > filter and maybe even epoxied inside the case.
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > wrote:
> > > > I have my oil pump out. How about some more detail on the modified oil
> > path from the oil cooler. The oil cooler to me is the best addition to any
> > air cooled engine. I am not racing but better oiling is always a good thing.
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Lyle
> > > > Craft59@
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > We run Bill's oil cooler. Plus the oil to feed the top end (cam)
> > (and one of the mains via gravity) is fed from a feed off of the oil cooler.
> > So the oil that feeds the top basically does NOT go up cylinders, which
> > helps to keep it cooler.
> > > > > Plus we ran Mile's remanufactured oil pump.
> > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Yes, the crank is a weak point for sure, the new crank should be a
> > good way to save some engines.
> > > > > > The oil pump system also is a weak link, have you done anything
> > with the pump?
> > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > For production you do have to stay stock in the valve
> > configuration, so only 2 valves for the Z/N 600s. (You can change the port
> > angle if you've got the time and $$.)
> > > > > > > And we did offset the bore (and re-sleeve) to comfortably get
> > the 700cc size. 750 can be done, but I'd rather spend the whole week racing
> > than melt down the first day after spending a year preparing.
> > > > > > > I've talked more with my sponsor about building cranks. He's
> > gotten a bit more excited by the idea, which is why I posted the poll on
> > after-market cranks. (My goal would be to come up with something so I can
> > get my 750cc motor, and everyone else can get a new crank/piston setup that
> > gets them a little more displacement and power along with the comfort of
> > knowing it's new and should last a long time . . . )
> > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Wow, that is some open rules.
> > > > > > > > The "Stock block" really opens it up for a 4 valve head
> > design!
> > > > > > > > Maybe Re-sleeve the block, offset wider so you can bore it out
> > to 750.
> > > > > > > > So many high tech engines out today to take parts from.
> > > > > > > > I would love to go see the cars run.
> > > > > > > > The worlds fastest Indian was a cool movie!
> > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > The class is actually limited to 750cc, and since newer
> > production cars can run EFI, they allow older cars to. (There is a "classic"
> > production class for larger displacement - carbs or mechanical fuel
> > injection only.)
> > > > > > > > > My sponsor was only comfortable pushing things to 700cc. I'm
> > pretty sure that 750cc has been done on a stock stroke, but it makes for
> > very thin cylinder walls. There are also some issues with space for sealing
> > the head gasket.
> > > > > > > > > The two main parts of the production class is having the
> > "stock" block, and the body having the stock configuration.
> > > > > > > > > Bonneville is quite an experience. You can really get up
> > close and "look under the hood" of most of the cars. People are really
> > friendly, like to answer questions. If anyone out there plans on running a
> > vehicle, I highly advise attending once to spectate. Get a feel for the
> > process, environment, rules, etc..
> > > > > > > > > And of course if anyone plans on going out to spectate, let
> > me know. If I'm out there I'm happy to share my pits and perhaps show you
> > around.
> > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Nice job on the car. Like the ignition system and fuel
> > injection.
> > > > > > > > > > Are you in a stock under 700cc class? I didn't think you
> > could modify the car that much without going into the unlimited class.
> > > > > > > > > > Bonneville would be so cool to go watch or run.
> > > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > You can read more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97//
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure they were water cut, but I could be
> > wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > jpro, your Bonneville Honda sounds interesting, where
> > do I go to see what you have done? Pictures/info.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Good idea with the copper gasket.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Do you get them laser cut or water jet?
> > > > > > > > > > > > A cheap way for a batch run.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I just read my post and realized it wasn't that
> > clear - I'm talking about head gaskets made from one piece of copper with no
> > other gasket material involved.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since no water is involved, all copper head
> > gaskets work great. We've been using them on the Bonneville Honda for years
> > with great success. PM me if you have interest in getting one and I'll see
> > what sort of bulk deal I can arrange.
jpro8071
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:18 am

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by jpro8071 »

Thanks for the comments Lyle! From what I've been told, these roller bearing motors don't need that much oil. Most of the oiling is splash fed.
I've beat on it pretty darn hard and am amazed how well it holds up. I live at an elevation of about 161', and the car is set up with a really high compression for Bonneville (4200', with DA hitting 7000+') - so it takes a lot of abuse and just keeps in humming along.
I'm helping a friend build a turbo'd Z600 for Speedweek (this August on the salt flats) - and he's running a separate oil tank and using a gasoline pump to keep the turbo oiled. This is okay for racing, but would preclude you from really running it on the street. It's kind of getting me pumped on the idea of playing with turbos again. I spent a lot of time looking into it, but gave up at the time because of the oiling issues on the 600.
And again folks reading this - what we've been doing is not cost effective, we are on the fringe because of an irrational addiction to Bonneville and land speed racing. If you want performance on the street, be careful . . . cranks are getting harder to come by, and these cars are getting more and more rare as well as more desirable.
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Jpro, now that I have my oil pump out and see how it works. I guess it's OK for a stock engine.
> Have you looked into a remote oil pump system.
> For a race engine like yours, I don't think the on/off flow stock piston pump is ideal!
> A gear driven pump would be better.
> Just a thought.
> Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > Thanks Bill! I haven't weighed the car since before the roll cage was put in. It might actually be a bit of a wash.
> > The exhaust system is probably lighter, most of the interior is out (seats, carpets and sound deadening material), plus we've removed the break booster and heater fan.
> > Added weight includes the roll cage (6 point, plus some added pipes for the push bar), a bigger battery, a 5# fire bottle (that's the weight of the powder, it actually weights more) plus a 1/4" plate where the rear passenger foot well was - where we mount the battery and the fire bottle.
> > I would imagine the loom and electronics add several pounds as well. I'll have to go find a scale next time I'm out driving and see what the net change is.
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> > > Eric;
> > > Really great shots, lots of coverage and meaningful representation of
> > > the first Honda's brought into the USA. It's not often we see this much
> > > energy placed in a vehicle not known for it's racing prowess. To bad the
> > > salt worm is getting to it's body.
> > > Question, what is it's weight in racing garb?
> > > Bill
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of jpro8071
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:32 AM
> > > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
> > > There are a handful more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97/
> > > Plus I've got some "Bonneville Honda" folders and I think a "Fuel
> > > Injection" folder here in the group.
> > > A very very flattering write up:
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009/08 ... cars-bonne
> > > ville.aspx
> > > (But you can see how tired/rough the car has become . . . hence the
> > > retirement.)
> > > And a first - dyno tuning on the salt flats of Bonneville:
http://jalopnik.com/5336932/testing-and ... vil-tweety
> > > (Yes, it was missing . . . this was the first time ever I'd gotten it set
> > > up.)
> > > And I hope I'm not monopolizing the group right now. I've got a lot of
> > > respect for the folks that keep these babies stock, or restore one. We
> > > started with a "salvaged" titled car that was in rough shape, and I hope to
> > > some day "give back" to the Honda 600 community by sharing information and
> > > maybe helping to get some parts remade or repaired.
> > > Believe me - if you have a stock/complete car, keep it that way. These
> > > cars are getting rarer and more desirable. There is a new trend in getting a
> > > "vintage" small displacement car. They are becoming very cool (as well as
> > > very smart money-wise at the pump.)
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Tran Nguyen wrote:
> > > > thats a wild setup! any more pics?
> > > > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > > > From: jpro8071@
> > > > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:15:00 +0000
> > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)
> > > > Unfortunately I'm one of those people that can't remember the different
> > > AN fitting sizes, so I'll have to take a closer look at the system to see
> > > what size hoses I'm using.
> > > > Bill's adapter removes the stock paper filter element. It has an "out"
> > > and an "in" fitting.
> > > > From the "out" fitting we run a line to an very large external oil
> > > filter (the same filter a Ford 302 would run) - and we've got an aftermarket
> > > larger capacity (and more efficient) oil filter. A little ways after the
> > > filter we have a T fitting. Off of it comes a smaller line that feeds the
> > > head, and one that is the same size as the "out" line that goes to the "in"
> > > section on Bill's adapter. (When we run a cooler, the cooler goes between
> > > the "out" and the oil filter, so that the oil going into the head has been
> > > cooled also.)
> > > > The smaller line for the head travels maybe 2 or 3 feet to another "T"
> > > fitting where we break off two equal size lines to the top of the head.
> > > (Remember - we don't have oil flowing up the cylinders to feed the cam/top
> > > end and one main bearing via gravity.)
> > > > You can see the lines to the top of the head here:
http://images.garagecity.com/49/97/f1_i ... n.orig.jpg
> > > > The photo is a little confusing - there are two lines with brass
> > > fittings that are the fuel injectors. The two fittings with the blue 90
> > > degree fittings are where the oil get dumped into the top end.
> > > > Besides the benefit of cooling the oil, you also add a quart to a quart
> > > and a half more capacity, which I think is a plus.
> > > > I think next time we'll put some rare-earth magnets inside the oil
> > > filter and maybe even epoxied inside the case.
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > I have my oil pump out. How about some more detail on the modified oil
> > > path from the oil cooler. The oil cooler to me is the best addition to any
> > > air cooled engine. I am not racing but better oiling is always a good thing.
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Lyle
> > > > > Craft59@
> > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> > > > > > We run Bill's oil cooler. Plus the oil to feed the top end (cam)
> > > (and one of the mains via gravity) is fed from a feed off of the oil cooler.
> > > So the oil that feeds the top basically does NOT go up cylinders, which
> > > helps to keep it cooler.
> > > > > > Plus we ran Mile's remanufactured oil pump.
> > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Yes, the crank is a weak point for sure, the new crank should be a
> > > good way to save some engines.
> > > > > > > The oil pump system also is a weak link, have you done anything
> > > with the pump?
> > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > For production you do have to stay stock in the valve
> > > configuration, so only 2 valves for the Z/N 600s. (You can change the port
> > > angle if you've got the time and $$.)
> > > > > > > > And we did offset the bore (and re-sleeve) to comfortably get
> > > the 700cc size. 750 can be done, but I'd rather spend the whole week racing
> > > than melt down the first day after spending a year preparing.
> > > > > > > > I've talked more with my sponsor about building cranks. He's
> > > gotten a bit more excited by the idea, which is why I posted the poll on
> > > after-market cranks. (My goal would be to come up with something so I can
> > > get my 750cc motor, and everyone else can get a new crank/piston setup that
> > > gets them a little more displacement and power along with the comfort of
> > > knowing it's new and should last a long time . . . )
> > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Wow, that is some open rules.
> > > > > > > > > The "Stock block" really opens it up for a 4 valve head
> > > design!
> > > > > > > > > Maybe Re-sleeve the block, offset wider so you can bore it out
> > > to 750.
> > > > > > > > > So many high tech engines out today to take parts from.
> > > > > > > > > I would love to go see the cars run.
> > > > > > > > > The worlds fastest Indian was a cool movie!
> > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > The class is actually limited to 750cc, and since newer
> > > production cars can run EFI, they allow older cars to. (There is a "classic"
> > > production class for larger displacement - carbs or mechanical fuel
> > > injection only.)
> > > > > > > > > > My sponsor was only comfortable pushing things to 700cc. I'm
> > > pretty sure that 750cc has been done on a stock stroke, but it makes for
> > > very thin cylinder walls. There are also some issues with space for sealing
> > > the head gasket.
> > > > > > > > > > The two main parts of the production class is having the
> > > "stock" block, and the body having the stock configuration.
> > > > > > > > > > Bonneville is quite an experience. You can really get up
> > > close and "look under the hood" of most of the cars. People are really
> > > friendly, like to answer questions. If anyone out there plans on running a
> > > vehicle, I highly advise attending once to spectate. Get a feel for the
> > > process, environment, rules, etc..
> > > > > > > > > > And of course if anyone plans on going out to spectate, let
> > > me know. If I'm out there I'm happy to share my pits and perhaps show you
> > > around.
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Nice job on the car. Like the ignition system and fuel
> > > injection.
> > > > > > > > > > > Are you in a stock under 700cc class? I didn't think you
> > > could modify the car that much without going into the unlimited class.
> > > > > > > > > > > Bonneville would be so cool to go watch or run.
> > > > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > You can read more here:
http://jdmtown.garagecity.com/600hondaavenue/97//
> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure they were water cut, but I could be
> > > wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > jpro, your Bonneville Honda sounds interesting, where
> > > do I go to see what you have done? Pictures/info.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Good idea with the copper gasket.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you get them laser cut or water jet?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > A cheap way for a batch run.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lyle
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just read my post and realized it wasn't that
> > > clear - I'm talking about head gaskets made from one piece of copper with no
> > > other gasket material involved.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since no water is involved, all copper head
> > > gaskets work great. We've been using them on the Bonneville Honda for years
> > > with great success. PM me if you have interest in getting one and I'll see
> > > what sort of bulk deal I can arrange.
Amtech
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:40 am

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by Amtech »

Makes me wonder if my personal interest in the N600 is an irrational addiction, because, as you point out, these cars just get more expensive. There are cheaper vehicles around, with parts more accessible, and that can reach, and hold, highway speeds with less effort.
But I can't think of many that draw so much attention and are so much fun.
On Jun 22, 2010, at 1:06 PM, jpro8071 wrote:
> And again folks reading this - what we've been doing is not cost effective, we are on the fringe because of an irrational addiction to Bonneville and land speed racing.
zinc2u
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:45 am

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by zinc2u »

The crank main bearings are fed oil from the pump ..... they are not splash fed.  Some of the advantages of a roller bearing engine over a sleeve bearing are (a) less friction and (b) the ability to withstand short periods of oil starvation.  The main bearings do want to see lots of oil but if they don't get any oil for several rotations,  no big deal.
Dale
> Thanks
> for the comments Lyle! From what I've been told, these roller bearing motors > don't need that much oil. Most of the oiling is splash > fed.
jpro8071
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:18 am

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by jpro8071 »

I think only 3 out of 4 are fed directly from the pump - I think one might be fed from what pours down from the head. There's a funnel up top that catches oil. (Not 100% sure . . . but that's what I seem to remember.)
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> The crank main bearings are fed oil from the pump ..... they are not splash
> fed. Some of the advantages of a roller bearing engine over a sleeve
> bearing are (a) less friction and (b) the ability to withstand short periods of
> oil starvation. The main bearings do want to see lots of oil but if they
> don't get any oil for several rotations, no big deal.
> Dale
> Thanks for the comments Lyle! From what I've been told, these roller
> bearing motors don't need that much oil. Most of the oiling is splash fed.
lyletrudell
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:54 pm

Re: Oiling and cooler (was Bonneville Honda)

Post by lyletrudell »

I have my engine partially disassembled. It has 75K on it and I see no visible damage from lack of oil pressure.
I agree the stock oil pump design is fine for these engines.
I will be installing an oil cooler with remote oil filter as Bill has.
I think most of the engine oil problems on these 600's are from an owner not changing the oil enough.
I live in Florida so I will use a non-synthetic motorcycle 20w-50 oil in it and a 1/2 a can of STP. Then change it every 2K miles or 3 months all my driving will be short run stop and go.
I will also be getting an oil pump rebuild kit from Miles.
End of oiling problems!
Lyle
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "jpro8071" wrote:
> I think only 3 out of 4 are fed directly from the pump - I think one might be fed from what pours down from the head. There's a funnel up top that catches oil. (Not 100% sure . . . but that's what I seem to remember.)
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@ wrote:
> > The crank main bearings are fed oil from the pump ..... they are not splash
> > fed. Some of the advantages of a roller bearing engine over a sleeve
> > bearing are (a) less friction and (b) the ability to withstand short periods of
> > oil starvation. The main bearings do want to see lots of oil but if they
> > don't get any oil for several rotations, no big deal.
> > Dale
> > Thanks for the comments Lyle! From what I've been told, these roller
> > bearing motors don't need that much oil. Most of the oiling is splash fed.
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