Rocker arm shafts repair

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:53 pm

Rocker arm shafts worn!
Wow, fix one thing and find something else to fix!
As you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good or hopefully better than stock.
I have worked on many engines over the years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn something new everytime I work on mechanical things.....Fun!
By seeing lots of engines apart you can start to understand how all engines work, but they all have differences, poor designs and weak points.
After seeing this engine apart and measuring everything, I would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor maintenance and we have an engine that won't last.
Luckily we have other members who have dealt with these issues.
I was reading past posts from Bill & Miles to learn about problem areas. Thanks guys!
I have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on top. Both small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the valve spring pressure pushing up on them.
One good thing is that the cam housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very hard.
The problem with this type valve design is we run out of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up fast!
*Valve ends
*Rocker arms
*Cam shaft
*Rocker shafts
So I need to find NOS rocker shafts.
I don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my old ones oversize and then re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to do.
?
Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:06 pm

I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops today.
$57-$64/shaft.
I think it's too much and I would need cores from everyone to get those prices.
I might just make myself a couple sets of new shafts when I get some free machine time. I could make the diameters a little larger to fit the slightly worn housing bores. Also increase the offset (.005") to get more adjustment. Of course heat treat them so they will last.
I think I could make them for $45/shaft.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> I bought 6.5mm lash caps to solve our valve adjustment issue, see lash caps post.
> Now I want to figure out how to repair the worn rocker shafts.
> My plan:
> *Have the large and small diameters ground (.005") undersize. In a cyclindrical grinder between centers.
> *Then chrome plate them (.006").
> *Then finish grind and buff them back to (+.0005") above stock size.
> I don't know of anyone with a cylindrical grinder.
> Any thoughts, been done before?
> Lyle
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Rocker arm shafts worn!
> Wow, fix one thing and find something else to fix!
> As you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good or hopefully better than stock.
> I have worked on many engines over the years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn something new everytime I work on mechanical things.....Fun!
> By seeing lots of engines apart you can start to understand how all engines work, but they all have differences, poor designs and weak points.
> After seeing this engine apart and measuring everything, I would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor maintenance and we have an engine that won't last.
> Luckily we have other members who have dealt with these issues.
> I was reading past posts from Bill & Miles to learn about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> I have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on top. Both small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the valve spring pressure pushing up on them.
> One good thing is that the cam housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very hard.
> The problem with this type valve design is we run out of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up fast!
> *Valve ends
> *Rocker arms
> *Cam shaft
> *Rocker shafts
> So I need to find NOS rocker shafts.
> I don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my old ones oversize and then re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to do.
> ?
> Lyle

CHEYENNE FLETCHER · Post by **CHEYENNE FLETCHER** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:53 am

Must have an Hitachi-Seki machining center. Nice!! I think you could probably do it for that. You could make them like popcorn once the tooling is done.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> lyletrudell
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06
> PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm
> shafts repair
> I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops today.
> $57-$64/shaft.
> I
> think it's too much and I would need cores from everyone to get those > prices.
> I might just make myself a couple sets of new shafts when I get > some free machine time. I could make the diameters a little larger to fit the > slightly worn housing bores. Also increase the offset (.005") to get more > adjustment. Of course heat treat them so they will last.
> I think I could
> make them for $45/shaft.
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > I bought 6.5mm
> lash caps to solve our valve adjustment issue, see lash caps post.
> > Now
> I want to figure out how to repair the worn rocker shafts.
> > My
> plan:
> > *Have the large and small diameters ground (.005") undersize. In > a cyclindrical grinder between centers.
> > *Then chrome plate them
> (.006").
> > *Then finish grind and buff them back to (+.0005") above > stock size.
> > I don't know of anyone with a cylindrical
> grinder.
> > Any thoughts, been done before?
> > Lyle
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Rocker arm shafts
> worn!
> > Wow, fix one thing and find something else to fix!
> > As
> you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good > or hopefully better than stock.
> > I have worked on many engines over the
> years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn something new everytime I work on > mechanical things.....Fun!
> > By seeing lots of engines apart you can
> start to understand how all engines work, but they all have differences, poor > designs and weak points.
> > After seeing this engine apart and measuring
> everything, I would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a > cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor maintenance > and we have an engine that won't last.
> > Luckily we have other
> members who have dealt with these issues.
> > I was reading past posts
> from Bill & Miles to learn about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> > I have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on > top. Both small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the > valve spring pressure pushing up on them.
> > One good thing is that the
> cam housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda > must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very > hard.
> > The problem with this type valve design is we run out
> of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up > fast!
> > *Valve ends
> > *Rocker arms
> > *Cam shaft
> *Rocker shafts
> > So I need to find NOS rocker shafts.
> > I
> don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my old ones oversize and then > re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to do.
> > ?
> Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:22 am

cheyennefletch, I would rather make popcorn and buy some NOS shafts.
I will probably run them in the Hardinge toolroom lathe manually.
8 parts is not worth setting up a cnc lathe and cnc mill.
I will have to machine the 2 end diameters first, finish size plus polish stock, not going to grind the diameters.
It will be a tougher part because of the eccentric center diameter. Even if I make them in a cnc I will need to make an offset collet or jig to hold them. It's a multiple step part for sure, not a push the button and pick up the part!
Drill the adjustment holes, heat treat and polish/buff diameters.
Still not sure how or if I will be making them.
But, I don't want to use the worn shafts.
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> Must have an Hitachi-Seki machining center. Nice!! I think you could probably do it for that. You could make them like popcorn once the tooling is done.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lyletrudell
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06 PM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops today.
> $57-$64/shaft.
> I think it's too much and I would need cores from everyone to get those prices.
> I might just make myself a couple sets of new shafts when I get some free machine time. I could make the diameters a little larger to fit the slightly worn housing bores. Also increase the offset (.005") to get more adjustment. Of course heat treat them so they will last.
> I think I could make them for $45/shaft.
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > I bought 6.5mm lash caps to solve our valve adjustment issue, see lash caps post.
> > Now I want to figure out how to repair the worn rocker shafts.
> > My plan:
> > *Have the large and small diameters ground (.005") undersize. In a cyclindrical grinder between centers.
> > *Then chrome plate them (.006").
> > *Then finish grind and buff them back to (+.0005") above stock size.
> > I don't know of anyone with a cylindrical grinder.
> > Any thoughts, been done before?
> > Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Rocker arm shafts worn!
> > Wow, fix one thing and find something else to fix!
> > As you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good or hopefully better than stock.
> > I have worked on many engines over the years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn something new everytime I work on mechanical things.....Fun!
> > By seeing lots of engines apart you can start to understand how all engines work, but they all have differences, poor designs and weak points.
> > After seeing this engine apart and measuring everything, I would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor maintenance and we have an engine that won't last.
> > Luckily we have other members who have dealt with these issues.
> > I was reading past posts from Bill & Miles to learn about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> > I have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on top. Both small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the valve spring pressure pushing up on them.
> > One good thing is that the cam housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very hard.
> > The problem with this type valve design is we run out of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up fast!
> > *Valve ends
> > *Rocker arms
> > *Cam shaft
> > *Rocker shafts
> > So I need to find NOS rocker shafts.
> > I don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my old ones oversize and then re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to do.
> > ?
> > Lyle

CHEYENNE FLETCHER · Post by **CHEYENNE FLETCHER** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:38 am

For sure a lot of setup time. Let me look and see if I have any. I might in all my stuff.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> lyletrudell
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, July 16, 2010 8:22 AM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm
> shafts repair
> cheyennefletch, I would rather make popcorn and buy some NOS shafts.
> I
> will probably run them in the Hardinge toolroom lathe manually.
> 8 parts is
> not worth setting up a cnc lathe and cnc mill.
> I will have to machine the 2
> end diameters first, finish size plus polish stock, not going to grind the > diameters.
> It will be a tougher part because of the eccentric center
> diameter. Even if I make them in a cnc I will need to make an offset collet or > jig to hold them. It's a multiple step part for sure, not a push the button > and pick up the part!
> Drill the adjustment holes, heat treat and
> polish/buff diameters.
> Still not sure how or if I will be making
> them.
> But, I don't want to use the worn shafts.
> Lyle
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > Must
> have an Hitachi-Seki machining center. Nice!! I think you could probably do it > for that. You could make them like popcorn once the tooling is done.
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> lyletrudell
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06 PM
> > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops today.
> $57-$64/shaft.
> > I think it's too much and I would need cores from
> everyone to get those prices.
> > I might just make myself a
> couple sets of new shafts when I get some free machine time. I could make the > diameters a little larger to fit the slightly worn housing bores. Also > increase the offset (.005") to get more adjustment. Of course heat treat them > so they will last.
> > I think I could make them for $45/shaft.
> Lyle
> > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > I bought
> 6.5mm lash caps to solve our valve adjustment issue, see lash caps > post.
> > > Now I want to figure out how to repair the worn rocker > shafts.
> > > My plan:
> > > *Have the large and small diameters
> ground (.005") undersize. In a cyclindrical grinder between centers.
> > *Then chrome plate them (.006").
> > > *Then finish grind and buff
> them back to (+.0005") above stock size.
> > > I don't
> know of anyone with a cylindrical grinder.
> > > Any thoughts, been
> done before?
> > > Lyle
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Rocker arm
> shafts worn!
> > > Wow, fix one thing and find something else to
> fix!
> > > As you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 > engine to be as good or hopefully better than stock.
> > > I have
> worked on many engines over the years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn > something new everytime I work on mechanical things.....Fun!
> > > By
> seeing lots of engines apart you can start to understand how all engines work, > but they all have differences, poor designs and weak points.
> After seeing this engine apart and measuring everything, I would consider this > engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, > high temperatures and poor maintenance and we have an engine that won't > last.
> > > Luckily we have other members who have dealt
> with these issues.
> > > I was reading past posts from Bill &
> Miles to learn about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> > > I
> have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on top. Both > small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the valve spring > pressure pushing up on them.
> > > One good thing is that the cam
> housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda > must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very > hard.
> > > The problem with this type valve design is we
> run out of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up > fast!
> > > *Valve ends
> > > *Rocker arms
> > > *Cam
> shaft
> > > *Rocker shafts
> > > So I need to find
> NOS rocker shafts.
> > > I don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my
> old ones oversize and then re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to > do.
> > > ?
> > > Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:14 pm

Cheyenne, if we have NOS parts around, that would be the cheapest way to keep the remaining 600's going.
I would rather make the shafts when we really need them, after all the NOS parts have been used up.
Then I could do a small run for the Honda owners.
No profit just to help keep the cars on the road.
Let me know if you or anyone else has any.
Thanks
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> For sure a lot of setup time. Let me look and see if I have any. I might in all my stuff.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lyletrudell
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:22 AM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> cheyennefletch, I would rather make popcorn and buy some NOS shafts.
> I will probably run them in the Hardinge toolroom lathe manually.
> 8 parts is not worth setting up a cnc lathe and cnc mill.
> I will have to machine the 2 end diameters first, finish size plus polish stock, not going to grind the diameters.
> It will be a tougher part because of the eccentric center diameter. Even if I make them in a cnc I will need to make an offset collet or jig to hold them. It's a multiple step part for sure, not a push the button and pick up the part!
> Drill the adjustment holes, heat treat and polish/buff diameters.
> Still not sure how or if I will be making them.
> But, I don't want to use the worn shafts.
> Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > Must have an Hitachi-Seki machining center. Nice!! I think you could probably do it for that. You could make them like popcorn once the tooling is done.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: lyletrudell
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops today.
> > $57-$64/shaft.
> > I think it's too much and I would need cores from everyone to get those prices.
> > I might just make myself a couple sets of new shafts when I get some free machine time. I could make the diameters a little larger to fit the slightly worn housing bores. Also increase the offset (.005") to get more adjustment. Of course heat treat them so they will last.
> > I think I could make them for $45/shaft.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > I bought 6.5mm lash caps to solve our valve adjustment issue, see lash caps post.
> > > Now I want to figure out how to repair the worn rocker shafts.
> > > My plan:
> > > *Have the large and small diameters ground (.005") undersize. In a cyclindrical grinder between centers.
> > > *Then chrome plate them (.006").
> > > *Then finish grind and buff them back to (+.0005") above stock size.
> > > I don't know of anyone with a cylindrical grinder.
> > > Any thoughts, been done before?
> > > Lyle
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Rocker arm shafts worn!
> > > Wow, fix one thing and find something else to fix!
> > > As you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good or hopefully better than stock.
> > > I have worked on many engines over the years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn something new everytime I work on mechanical things.....Fun!
> > > By seeing lots of engines apart you can start to understand how all engines work, but they all have differences, poor designs and weak points.
> > > After seeing this engine apart and measuring everything, I would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor maintenance and we have an engine that won't last.
> > > Luckily we have other members who have dealt with these issues.
> > > I was reading past posts from Bill & Miles to learn about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> > > I have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on top. Both small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the valve spring pressure pushing up on them.
> > > One good thing is that the cam housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very hard.
> > > The problem with this type valve design is we run out of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up fast!
> > > *Valve ends
> > > *Rocker arms
> > > *Cam shaft
> > > *Rocker shafts
> > > So I need to find NOS rocker shafts.
> > > I don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my old ones oversize and then re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to do.
> > > ?
> > > Lyle

CHEYENNE FLETCHER · Post by **CHEYENNE FLETCHER** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:41 am

Roger that.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> lyletrudell
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, July 16, 2010 4:12 PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm
> shafts repair
> Cheyenne, if we have NOS parts around, that would be the cheapest way to > keep the remaining 600's going.
> I would rather make the shafts when we
> really need them, after all the NOS parts have been used up.
> Then I could
> do a small run for the Honda owners.
> No profit just to help keep the cars
> on the road.
> Let me know if you or anyone else has any.
> Thanks
> Lyle
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > For sure
> a lot of setup time. Let me look and see if I have any. I might in all my > stuff.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> lyletrudell
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:22 AM
> > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > cheyennefletch, I would rather make popcorn and buy some NOS > shafts.
> > I will probably run them in the Hardinge toolroom lathe
> manually.
> > 8 parts is not worth setting up a cnc lathe and cnc
> mill.
> > I will have to machine the 2 end diameters first, finish size > plus polish stock, not going to grind the diameters.
> > It will be a
> tougher part because of the eccentric center diameter. Even if I make them in > a cnc I will need to make an offset collet or jig to hold them. It's a > multiple step part for sure, not a push the button and pick up the > part!
> > Drill the adjustment holes, heat treat and polish/buff
> diameters.
> > Still not sure how or if I will be making them.
> But, I don't want to use the worn shafts.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> Must have an Hitachi-Seki machining center. Nice!! I think you could probably > do it for that. You could make them like popcorn once the tooling is > done.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> lyletrudell
> > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06 PM
> > > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > > I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops
> today.
> > > $57-$64/shaft.
> > > I think it's too much and I
> would need cores from everyone to get those prices.
> I might just make myself a couple sets of new shafts when I get some free > machine time. I could make the diameters a little larger to fit the slightly > worn housing bores. Also increase the offset (.005") to get more adjustment.
> Of course heat treat them so they will last.
> > > I think I could make
> them for $45/shaft.
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , > "lyletrudell" wrote:
> I bought 6.5mm lash caps to solve our valve adjustment issue, see lash caps > post.
> > > > Now I want to figure out how to repair the worn rocker > shafts.
> > > > My plan:
> > > > *Have the large and small
> diameters ground (.005") undersize. In a cyclindrical grinder between > centers.
> > > > *Then chrome plate them (.006").
> *Then finish grind and buff them back to (+.0005") above stock size.
> > > > I don't know of anyone with a cylindrical
> grinder.
> > > > Any thoughts, been done before?
> Lyle
> > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , > "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Rocker arm shafts worn!
> > > > Wow, fix one thing and find
> something else to fix!
> > > > As you can see from my posts I am
> trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good or hopefully better than > stock.
> > > > I have worked on many engines over the years, don't
> claim to be an expert, I learn something new everytime I work on mechanical > things.....Fun!
> > > > By seeing lots of engines apart you can
> start to understand how all engines work, but they all have differences, poor > designs and weak points.
> > > > After seeing this engine apart and
> measuring everything, I would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, > like a cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor > maintenance and we have an engine that won't last.
> > > Luckily we have other members who have dealt with these issues.
> > > > I was reading past posts from Bill & Miles to learn
> about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> > > > I have
> 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on top. Both small > and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the valve spring > pressure pushing up on them.
> > > > One good thing is that the cam
> housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda > must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very > hard.
> > > > The problem with this type valve
> design is we run out of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each > part adds up fast!
> > > > *Valve ends
> > > > *Rocker
> arms
> > > > *Cam shaft
> > > > *Rocker shafts
> > > > So I need to find NOS rocker shafts.
> > I don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my old ones oversize and then > re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to do.
> ?
> > > > Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:37 pm

So far I have found no new rocker shafts in the USA and 3 in England.
They want $46 a piece plus shipping. So about $60/pc. Not that 3 will do me any good!
I will keep looking for a couple NOS sets a while longer.
I could make new ones for that price, plus they would be a better material, harder, slightly larger diameters and have more offset.
I am busy at work now, but I will put this on my "hobby parts to make list".
Once I am set up I could run a few more sets.
This will be a one time run, no money in this stuff.
Anyone interested in a rocker shaft set Email me.
Craft59@...
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Cheyenne, if we have NOS parts around, that would be the cheapest way to keep the remaining 600's going.
> I would rather make the shafts when we really need them, after all the NOS parts have been used up.
> Then I could do a small run for the Honda owners.
> No profit just to help keep the cars on the road.
> Let me know if you or anyone else has any.
> Thanks
> Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > For sure a lot of setup time. Let me look and see if I have any. I might in all my stuff.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: lyletrudell
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:22 AM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > cheyennefletch, I would rather make popcorn and buy some NOS shafts.
> > I will probably run them in the Hardinge toolroom lathe manually.
> > 8 parts is not worth setting up a cnc lathe and cnc mill.
> > I will have to machine the 2 end diameters first, finish size plus polish stock, not going to grind the diameters.
> > It will be a tougher part because of the eccentric center diameter. Even if I make them in a cnc I will need to make an offset collet or jig to hold them. It's a multiple step part for sure, not a push the button and pick up the part!
> > Drill the adjustment holes, heat treat and polish/buff diameters.
> > Still not sure how or if I will be making them.
> > But, I don't want to use the worn shafts.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > > Must have an Hitachi-Seki machining center. Nice!! I think you could probably do it for that. You could make them like popcorn once the tooling is done.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: lyletrudell
> > > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06 PM
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > > I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops today.
> > > $57-$64/shaft.
> > > I think it's too much and I would need cores from everyone to get those prices.
> > > I might just make myself a couple sets of new shafts when I get some free machine time. I could make the diameters a little larger to fit the slightly worn housing bores. Also increase the offset (.005") to get more adjustment. Of course heat treat them so they will last.
> > > I think I could make them for $45/shaft.
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > I bought 6.5mm lash caps to solve our valve adjustment issue, see lash caps post.
> > > > Now I want to figure out how to repair the worn rocker shafts.
> > > > My plan:
> > > > *Have the large and small diameters ground (.005") undersize. In a cyclindrical grinder between centers.
> > > > *Then chrome plate them (.006").
> > > > *Then finish grind and buff them back to (+.0005") above stock size.
> > > > I don't know of anyone with a cylindrical grinder.
> > > > Any thoughts, been done before?
> > > > Lyle
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > Rocker arm shafts worn!
> > > > Wow, fix one thing and find something else to fix!
> > > > As you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good or hopefully better than stock.
> > > > I have worked on many engines over the years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn something new everytime I work on mechanical things.....Fun!
> > > > By seeing lots of engines apart you can start to understand how all engines work, but they all have differences, poor designs and weak points.
> > > > After seeing this engine apart and measuring everything, I would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor maintenance and we have an engine that won't last.
> > > > Luckily we have other members who have dealt with these issues.
> > > > I was reading past posts from Bill & Miles to learn about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> > > > I have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on top. Both small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the valve spring pressure pushing up on them.
> > > > One good thing is that the cam housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very hard.
> > > > The problem with this type valve design is we run out of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up fast!
> > > > *Valve ends
> > > > *Rocker arms
> > > > *Cam shaft
> > > > *Rocker shafts
> > > > So I need to find NOS rocker shafts.
> > > > I don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my old ones oversize and then re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to do.
> > > > ?
> > > > Lyle

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:45 pm

Already have a few people interested in the new rocker shafts.
I know you guys don't know me or what kind of work I do.
In a nut shell;
I am a balding, 50 year old journeyman Tool&Die maker, I have my own small shop and I make components for Medical, Aerospace and commercial companies. I have CNC and manual machines and use quality/calibrated inspection tools.
Oh, I also like making parts for vintage bikes and unusual cars!
Here is my temp Website, yes it's really bad and out of date, I need to find someone to make it look better. Machinist are good at only one thing.
http://tru-craft.com/
Just to let you know, I will charge no money up front.
I will quote them for a price and that price will be good, even if I lose money.
This is a hobby project, so it will come second to my real work....my kid needs new shoes!
This will be a one time run, I will probably not start anything until the end of the month. I will post the basic design and improvements to the old shafts, all ideas are welcome.
Before I start we should still see if we can find someone with NOS shafts.
Lyle

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> So far I have found no new rocker shafts in the USA and 3 in England.
> They want $46 a piece plus shipping. So about $60/pc. Not that 3 will do me any good!
> I will keep looking for a couple NOS sets a while longer.
> I could make new ones for that price, plus they would be a better material, harder, slightly larger diameters and have more offset.
> I am busy at work now, but I will put this on my "hobby parts to make list".
> Once I am set up I could run a few more sets.
> This will be a one time run, no money in this stuff.
> Anyone interested in a rocker shaft set Email me.
> Craft59@...
> Lyle
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Cheyenne, if we have NOS parts around, that would be the cheapest way to keep the remaining 600's going.
> > I would rather make the shafts when we really need them, after all the NOS parts have been used up.
> > Then I could do a small run for the Honda owners.
> > No profit just to help keep the cars on the road.
> > Let me know if you or anyone else has any.
> > Thanks
> > Lyle
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > > For sure a lot of setup time. Let me look and see if I have any. I might in all my stuff.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: lyletrudell
> > > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:22 AM
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > > cheyennefletch, I would rather make popcorn and buy some NOS shafts.
> > > I will probably run them in the Hardinge toolroom lathe manually.
> > > 8 parts is not worth setting up a cnc lathe and cnc mill.
> > > I will have to machine the 2 end diameters first, finish size plus polish stock, not going to grind the diameters.
> > > It will be a tougher part because of the eccentric center diameter. Even if I make them in a cnc I will need to make an offset collet or jig to hold them. It's a multiple step part for sure, not a push the button and pick up the part!
> > > Drill the adjustment holes, heat treat and polish/buff diameters.
> > > Still not sure how or if I will be making them.
> > > But, I don't want to use the worn shafts.
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > > > Must have an Hitachi-Seki machining center. Nice!! I think you could probably do it for that. You could make them like popcorn once the tooling is done.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: lyletrudell
> > > > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06 PM
> > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > > > I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops today.
> > > > $57-$64/shaft.
> > > > I think it's too much and I would need cores from everyone to get those prices.
> > > > I might just make myself a couple sets of new shafts when I get some free machine time. I could make the diameters a little larger to fit the slightly worn housing bores. Also increase the offset (.005") to get more adjustment. Of course heat treat them so they will last.
> > > > I think I could make them for $45/shaft.
> > > > Lyle
> > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > I bought 6.5mm lash caps to solve our valve adjustment issue, see lash caps post.
> > > > > Now I want to figure out how to repair the worn rocker shafts.
> > > > > My plan:
> > > > > *Have the large and small diameters ground (.005") undersize. In a cyclindrical grinder between centers.
> > > > > *Then chrome plate them (.006").
> > > > > *Then finish grind and buff them back to (+.0005") above stock size.
> > > > > I don't know of anyone with a cylindrical grinder.
> > > > > Any thoughts, been done before?
> > > > > Lyle
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > Rocker arm shafts worn!
> > > > > Wow, fix one thing and find something else to fix!
> > > > > As you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good or hopefully better than stock.
> > > > > I have worked on many engines over the years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn something new everytime I work on mechanical things.....Fun!
> > > > > By seeing lots of engines apart you can start to understand how all engines work, but they all have differences, poor designs and weak points.
> > > > > After seeing this engine apart and measuring everything, I would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a cheap motorcycle. Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor maintenance and we have an engine that won't last.
> > > > > Luckily we have other members who have dealt with these issues.
> > > > > I was reading past posts from Bill & Miles to learn about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> > > > > I have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn on top. Both small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the valve spring pressure pushing up on them.
> > > > > One good thing is that the cam housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max on the bores. Honda must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, this makes it very hard.
> > > > > The problem with this type valve design is we run out of adjustment as the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up fast!
> > > > > *Valve ends
> > > > > *Rocker arms
> > > > > *Cam shaft
> > > > > *Rocker shafts
> > > > > So I need to find NOS rocker shafts.
> > > > > I don't want to have to nickle/chrome plate my old ones oversize and then re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap thing to do.
> > > > > ?
> > > > > Lyle

CHEYENNE FLETCHER · Post by **CHEYENNE FLETCHER** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:03 am

I just want to play in your shop sounds like a dream. What kind of machining center do you have?

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> lyletrudell
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, July 30, 2010 3:44 PM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm
> shafts repair
> Already have a few people interested in the new rocker shafts.
> I know
> you guys don't know me or what kind of work I do.
> In a nut shell;
> I am a
> balding, 50 year old journeyman Tool&Die maker, I have my own small shop > and I make components for Medical, Aerospace and commercial companies. I have > CNC and manual machines and use quality/calibrated inspection tools.
> Oh, I
> also like making parts for vintage bikes and unusual cars!
> Here is my temp
> Website, yes it's really bad and out of date, I need to find someone to make > it look better. Machinist are good at only one thing.
> http://tru-craft.com/
> Just to let you
> know, I will charge no money up front.
> I will quote them for a price and
> that price will be good, even if I lose money.
> This is a hobby project, so
> it will come second to my real work....my kid needs new shoes!
> This
> will be a one time run, I will probably not start anything until the end of > the month. I will post the basic design and improvements to the old shafts, > all ideas are welcome.
> Before I start we should still see if we can find
> someone with NOS shafts.
> Lyle
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > So far I have
> found no new rocker shafts in the USA and 3 in England.
> > They want $46
> a piece plus shipping. So about $60/pc. Not that 3 will do me any > good!
> > I will keep looking for a couple NOS sets a while
> longer.
> > I could make new ones for that price, plus they would
> be a better material, harder, slightly larger diameters and have more > offset.
> > I am busy at work now, but I will put this on my "hobby parts > to make list".
> > Once I am set up I could run a few more sets.
> This will be a one time run, no money in this stuff.
> > Anyone interested
> in a rocker shaft set Email me.
> > Craft59@...
> > Lyle
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Cheyenne,
> if we have NOS parts around, that would be the cheapest way to keep the > remaining 600's going.
> > > I would rather make the shafts when we
> really need them, after all the NOS parts have been used up.
> > > Then
> I could do a small run for the Honda owners.
> > > No profit just to
> help keep the cars on the road.
> > > Let me know if you or anyone else
> has any.
> > > Thanks
> > > Lyle
> > > ---
> In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > > For sure a lot of setup time. Let me look and see if I have any. I > might in all my stuff.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: lyletrudell
> > > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:22 AM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > > > cheyennefletch, I
> would rather make popcorn and buy some NOS shafts.
> > > > I will
> probably run them in the Hardinge toolroom lathe manually.
> > > > 8
> parts is not worth setting up a cnc lathe and cnc mill.
> > > > I
> will have to machine the 2 end diameters first, finish size plus polish stock, > not going to grind the diameters.
> > > > It will be a tougher part
> because of the eccentric center diameter. Even if I make them in a cnc I will > need to make an offset collet or jig to hold them. It's a multiple step part > for sure, not a push the button and pick up the part!
> > > > Drill
> the adjustment holes, heat treat and polish/buff diameters.
> Still not sure how or if I will be making them.
> > > > But, I don't
> want to use the worn shafts.
> > > > Lyle
> > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "CHEYENNE FLETCHER" wrote:
> > > > > Must have an Hitachi-Seki machining center. Nice!!
> I think you could probably do it for that. You could make them like popcorn > once the tooling is done.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: lyletrudell
> > > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06 PM
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Rocker arm shafts repair
> > I got quotes from the chrome and grind shops today.
> > $57-$64/shaft.
> > > > > I think it's too much and I would
> need cores from everyone to get those prices.
> > > > I might just make myself a couple sets of new shafts when I get > some free machine time. I could make the diameters a little larger to fit the > slightly worn housing bores. Also increase the offset (.005") to get more > adjustment. Of course heat treat them so they will last.
> > I think I could make them for $45/shaft.
> Lyle
> > > > > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , > "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > I bought 6.5mm lash caps to solve our valve adjustment > issue, see lash caps post.
> > > > > > Now I want to figure
> out how to repair the worn rocker shafts.
> > > > > > My
> plan:
> > > > > > *Have the large and small diameters ground
> (.005") undersize. In a cyclindrical grinder between centers.
> > > > *Then chrome plate them (.006").
> *Then finish grind and buff them back to (+.0005") above stock size.
> > > > > > I don't know of anyone with a
> cylindrical grinder.
> > > > > > Any thoughts, been done
> before?
> > > > > > Lyle
> > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , > "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > > > Rocker arm shafts worn!
> > > > > > Wow,
> fix one thing and find something else to fix!
> > > > > > As
> you can see from my posts I am trying to rebuild my 600 engine to be as good > or hopefully better than stock.
> > > > > > I have worked on
> many engines over the years, don't claim to be an expert, I learn something > new everytime I work on mechanical things.....Fun!
> By seeing lots of engines apart you can start to understand how all engines > work, but they all have differences, poor designs and weak points.
> > > > > After seeing this engine apart and measuring everything, I > would consider this engine a 50K mile motor at best, like a cheap motorcycle.
> Now add high RPM's, high temperatures and poor maintenance and we have an > engine that won't last.
> > Luckily we have other members who have dealt with these issues.
> > > > > I was reading past posts from Bill & Miles to learn > about problem areas. Thanks guys!
> > > > I have 8 rocker arm shafts from 2 engines and they are all worn > on top. Both small and large diameters have about (.004"-.005") wear from the > valve spring pressure pushing up on them.
> > > > > > One good
> thing is that the cam housing bores are in great shape!Only (.001") wear max > on the bores. Honda must have used a high silicon content in their aluminum, > this makes it very hard.
> > The problem with this type valve design is we run out of adjustment as > the parts wear! (.002") wear on each part adds up fast!
> > *Valve ends
> > > > > > *Rocker arms
> > > *Cam shaft
> > > > > > *Rocker shafts
> > > > > > So I need to find NOS rocker
> shafts.
> > > > > > I don't want to have to nickle/chrome
> plate my old ones oversize and then re-grind them back to size. Not a cheap > thing to do.
> > > > > > ?
> Lyle