Honda 600 upgrades

[zinc2u]

He is referring to the after-market alternator he will be soon offering ..... his will be belt driven.  The OEM version is as you mentioned.
Dale

> The
> alternator is not belt driven. The alternator is driven directly from the main > crank. The belt drive is for the cooling fan only.

[TOM THIES]

I think he is talking about an external alternator that they have come up with..

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> misterpoopoohead@...
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, January 24, 2011 3:08
> PM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda
> 600 upgrades
> The alternator is not belt driven. The alternator is driven directly from > the main crank. The belt drive is for the cooling fan only.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> From:
> "honda600wiz" tmoc1990@...
> Sender:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date:
> Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:28:06 -0000
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ReplyTo:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> The alternator is belt driven just like the cooling fan, gates belt #7250 > is working fine.
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> wrote:
> > So, how is the alternator
> operating? Belt driven?
> > Bill
> > -----Original
> Message-----
> > From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ]On
> Behalf Of honda600wiz
> > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 5:05 AM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> > The electric fan is used for better cooling and also allow more room > for > > the alternator, using the stock fan did not allow for this. In > this set up > > there is no need for the stator, voltage regulator, brush > assembly or > > rectifier and the fan is very easily removed if needed not > complicated to > > remove like the factory set up. Myself and the owner of > DC engineering will > > continue to test, mointor and document our > findings at testings continues.
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> goinhm@ wrote:
> > > That is great news! When you get a
> chance, tell us more details on the
> > > alternator and the electronic
> ignition.
> > > What is the advantage of the electric
> cooling fan? I think the stock
> > > mechanical system is pretty
> efficient and requires very little power to
> > operate
> > > (it
> has a low mass fan and the belt tension is very light, the bearings
> at
> > > the pulleys appear to be low friction).
> > thanks for the info,
> > > Dale
> > > Happy to
> report that the team of the Honda 600 Shop and DC Engineering
> of
> > > Opp Alabama we have been able to design a electronic ignition, > electric > > > cooling fan and a one wire alternator set up on the > Honda 600 cars and > > so far > > > everything is working well. all > the bugs are worked out and we look > > foward > > > to helping > other Honda 600 owners with this set up in the near future.

[friend]

[No content]

[Jerry A]

Since the stator unit is connected to the crankshaft its technically a load just a belt driven alternator would be. I believe the goal is remove the outdated stator assembly and install a higher efficiency modern alternator with a simple 1 wire connection going directly to the battery.If I remember correctly Miles said he performed this conversion once and had mixed outcome as the removal of the stator assembly allowed faster engine acceleration (ability to rev) but at the cost of engine torque, making hill climbs near impossible. With the engine being underpowered, it uses the reciprocating mass of the stator to produce torque. It will be interesting to see what the outcome will be. I have a feeling it will move the power band around and increase horse power but cost torque. I would think it would be a lot like swapping lightweight flywheels on to engines.

--- On
Mon, 1/24/11, billmyong@...

wrote:
> From: billmyong@...
> Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 11:34 PM
> Just so we are all on the same page.
> The OEM alternator stator unit is positioned on the crankshaft.
> This after market unit is sapping power from
> the engine.
> I have seen these before,
> and they really pulled all the power from the engine.
> So, is this belt driven unit making my 36hp unit weaker? Or am I > missing something?
> Bill
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of > TOM THIES
> Sent:
> Monday, January 24, 2011
> 3:23 PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re:
> Honda 600 upgrades
> I think he is talking about an external alternator that they > have come up with..
> -----
> Original Message -----
> From:
> misterpoopoohead@...
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, January 24,
> 2011 3:08 PM
> Subject:
> Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> The alternator is not belt driven. The alternator is driven > directly from the main crank. The belt drive is for the cooling fan only.
> Sent
> from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> From:
> "honda600wiz"
> tmoc1990@...
> Sender:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date:
> Mon,
> 24 Jan 2011 12:28:06 -0000
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ReplyTo:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas]
> Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> The alternator is belt driven just like the cooling fan, gates > belt #7250 is working fine.
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> wrote:
> > So, how is the alternator operating? Belt driven?
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ]On
> Behalf Of honda600wiz
> > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 5:05 AM
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> > The electric fan is used for better cooling and also allow more room for
> > the alternator, using the stock fan did not allow for this. In this set up
> > there is no need for the stator, voltage regulator, brush assembly or
> > rectifier and the fan is very easily removed if needed not complicated to
> > remove like the factory set up. Myself and the owner of DC engineering > will
> > continue to test, mointor and document our findings at testings continues.
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> goinhm@ wrote:
> > > That is great news! When you get a chance, tell us more details on > the
> > > alternator and the electronic ignition.
> > > What is the advantage of the electric cooling fan? I think the stock
> > > mechanical system is pretty efficient and requires very little power > to
> > operate
> > > (it has a low mass fan and the belt tension is very light, the > bearings
> > at
> > > the pulleys appear to be low friction).
> > > thanks for the info,
> > > Dale
> > > Happy to report that the team of the Honda 600 Shop and DC > Engineering
> > of
> > > Opp Alabama we have been able to design a electronic ignition, > electric
> > > cooling fan and a one wire alternator set up on the Honda 600 cars > and
> > so far
> > > everything is working well. all the bugs are worked out and we look
> > foward
> > > to helping other Honda 600 owners with this set up in the near > future.

[feltonminicycle]

It's true back around 1985 I put a belt drive alternator on my Honda 600 custom truck. It was just a 35 amp Civic alt. I also had the Hawaiian head & pipes, all new parts in the engine, and I pulled the windings off the flywheel. I wasn't a tuner and I'm still not but the truckster wouldn't climb hills. It was missing 5 pounds of needed spinning mass.
It sounds like Mike is still in the ideas/testing stages. I say instead of poopooing his ideas to let him finish testing. It's interesting and fun to hear about other people's mods.
Miles

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Jerry A wrote:
> Since the stator unit is connected to the crankshaft its technically a load just a belt driven alternator would be. I believe the goal is remove the outdated stator assembly and install a higher efficiency modern alternator with a simple 1 wire connection going directly to the battery.If I remember correctly Miles said he performed this conversion once and had mixed outcome as the removal of the stator assembly allowed faster engine acceleration (ability to rev) but at the cost of engine torque, making hill climbs near impossible. With the engine being underpowered, it uses the reciprocating mass of the stator to produce torque. It will be interesting to see what the outcome will be. I have a feeling it will move the power band around and increase horse power but cost torque. I would think it would be a lot like swapping lightweight flywheels on to engines.
> --- On Mon, 1/24/11, billmyong@... wrote:
> From: billmyong@...
> Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 11:34 PM
> Just so we are all on the same page.
> The OEM alternator stator unit is positioned on the crankshaft.  This after market unit is sapping power from
> the engine.  I have seen these before,
> and they really pulled all the power from the engine.  So, is this belt driven unit making my 36hp unit weaker? Or am I
> missing something?
> Bill
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of TOM THIES
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011
> 3:23 PM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re:
> Honda 600 upgrades
> I think he is talking about an external alternator that they
> have come up with..
> -----
> Original Message -----
> From: misterpoopoohead@...
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 24,
> 2011 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> The alternator is not belt driven. The alternator is driven
> directly from the main crank. The belt drive is for the cooling fan only.
> Sent
> from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> From: "honda600wiz"
>
> Sender:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mon,
> 24 Jan 2011 12:28:06 -0000
> To: ReplyTo:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas]
> Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> The alternator is belt driven just like the cooling fan, gates
> belt #7250 is working fine.
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
,
> wrote:
> > So, how is the alternator operating? Belt driven?
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On
> Behalf Of honda600wiz
> > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 5:05 AM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> > The electric fan is used for better cooling and also allow more room for
> > the alternator, using the stock fan did not allow for this. In this set up
> > there is no need for the stator, voltage regulator, brush assembly or
> > rectifier and the fan is very easily removed if needed not complicated to
> > remove like the factory set up. Myself and the owner of DC engineering
> will
> > continue to test, mointor and document our findings at testings continues.
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
,
> goinhm@ wrote:
> > > That is great news! When you get a chance, tell us more details on
> the
> > > alternator and the electronic ignition.
> > > What is the advantage of the electric cooling fan? I think the stock
> > > mechanical system is pretty efficient and requires very little power
> to
> > operate
> > > (it has a low mass fan and the belt tension is very light, the
> bearings
> > at
> > > the pulleys appear to be low friction).
> > > thanks for the info,
> > > Dale
> > > Happy to report that the team of the Honda 600 Shop and DC
> Engineering
> > of
> > > Opp Alabama we have been able to design a electronic ignition,
> electric
> > > cooling fan and a one wire alternator set up on the Honda 600 cars
> and
> > so far
> > > everything is working well. all the bugs are worked out and we look
> > foward
> > > to helping other Honda 600 owners with this set up in the near
> future.

[friend]

[No content]

[misterpoopoohead]

You are right! I wasn't paying attention!
Kev Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From:
"TOM THIES"
Sender:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Date:
Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:22:56 -0800
To:

ReplyTo:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
I think he is talking about an external alternator that they have come up with..

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> misterpoopoohead@...
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, January 24, 2011 3:08
> PM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda
> 600 upgrades
> The alternator is not belt driven. The alternator is driven directly from > the main crank. The belt drive is for the cooling fan only.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> From:
> "honda600wiz" tmoc1990@...
> Sender:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Date:
> Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:28:06 -0000
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ReplyTo:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> The alternator is belt driven just like the cooling fan, gates belt #7250 > is working fine.
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> wrote:
> > So, how is the alternator
> operating? Belt driven?
> > Bill
> > -----Original
> Message-----
> > From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ]On
> Behalf Of honda600wiz
> > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 5:05 AM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> > The electric fan is used for better cooling and also allow more room > for > > the alternator, using the stock fan did not allow for this. In > this set up > > there is no need for the stator, voltage regulator, brush > assembly or > > rectifier and the fan is very easily removed if needed not > complicated to > > remove like the factory set up. Myself and the owner of > DC engineering will > > continue to test, mointor and document our > findings at testings continues.
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> goinhm@ wrote:
> > > That is great news! When you get a
> chance, tell us more details on the
> > > alternator and the electronic
> ignition.
> > > What is the advantage of the electric
> cooling fan? I think the stock
> > > mechanical system is pretty
> efficient and requires very little power to
> > operate
> > > (it
> has a low mass fan and the belt tension is very light, the bearings
> at
> > > the pulleys appear to be low friction).
> > thanks for the info,
> > > Dale
> > > Happy to
> report that the team of the Honda 600 Shop and DC Engineering
> of
> > > Opp Alabama we have been able to design a electronic ignition, > electric > > > cooling fan and a one wire alternator set up on the > Honda 600 cars and > > so far > > > everything is working well. all > the bugs are worked out and we look > > foward > > > to helping > other Honda 600 owners with this set up in the near future.

[Charles m]

Guys,
I'm just a lurker here, but an Alternator is only going to suck the power needs to charge the battery and maintain the system. If it is 100A but the battery is already charged then every thing is fine. If you connect up 100Amps of accessories and run them at the same time you may have an issue. Just think about it for a moment. The issue is really just how much load you are going to put on the alternator. A bigger alternator is not going to hurt the system. I have done these types of upgrades on cars before. Ok, bigger cars, but I know the 100A alt on my Morgan +4 when the battery is dead is a strain on the engine at idle, but after everything is charged back up it is fine. As long as you are not trying to use full load of the alt the engine will be fine. Otherwise you may have to wait for the battery to be charged before you drive anywhere.
CM
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com

[fierochuck]

Well I guess it,s time for me to put my two cents in... :-)
A few things to keep in mind about alternators.. The 600 stater assemble does not draw any horse power unless it is making current, In fact it helps with the torque by having a large rotating mass...
If you unhook the electrics from it , it becomes only a flywheel..
In mounting up a conventional alternator keep in mind that it will need at least a five inch pulley on the engine to get enough rpm to be effective at the rpm ranges most used in our little engines...
Chuck

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> Asking a question or two is not poopooing anything. It is however giving
> the person offering the suggestion more experience with the issue at hand
> from Honda 600 owners willing to invest some time and be prospective
> customers. WD40 had 39 other tries, not failures but 39 times they didn't
> find the product they were looking for. The automatic transmission for the
> Honda 600 worked, but it pulled 50% of the available power from the engine
> resulting in a poor performing system. And we all know why there isn't an
> AC unit on a Honda 600. If there is technology out there to avail a driven
> alternator that will not reduce the available power then great. But I for
> one have not heard anything about that come up in discussions here.
> I would like to see an electronic version of the voltage regulator and
> something to replace the rectifier. Lyle has progressed nicely with an
> electronic ignition conversion kit. The problem facing Honda 600 owners is
> that no one wants to invest a great deal of money in a project that will
> stall because most Honda 600 owners won't buy one. R&D takes a lot of time
> and money to develop the item and more to package it. Then there is the 39
> items that didn't work.
> If the cost to restore an original item is more than a replacement part then
> it has possibilities. Go for it, but don't call anyone asking the question
> a Nay Sayer.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of feltonminicycle
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:04 AM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> It's true back around 1985 I put a belt drive alternator on my Honda 600
> custom truck. It was just a 35 amp Civic alt. I also had the Hawaiian head &
> pipes, all new parts in the engine, and I pulled the windings off the
> flywheel. I wasn't a tuner and I'm still not but the truckster wouldn't
> climb hills. It was missing 5 pounds of needed spinning mass.
> It sounds like Mike is still in the ideas/testing stages. I say instead of
> poopooing his ideas to let him finish testing. It's interesting and fun to
> hear about other people's mods.
> Miles
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , Jerry A wrote:
> > Since the stator unit is connected to the crankshaft its technically a
> load just a belt driven alternator would be. I believe the goal is remove
> the outdated stator assembly and install a higher efficiency modern
> alternator with a simple 1 wire connection going directly to the battery.If
> I remember correctly Miles said he performed this conversion once and had
> mixed outcome as the removal of the stator assembly allowed faster engine
> acceleration (ability to rev) but at the cost of engine torque, making hill
> climbs near impossible. With the engine being underpowered, it uses the
> reciprocating mass of the stator to produce torque. It will be interesting
> to see what the outcome will be. I have a feeling it will move the power
> band around and increase horse power but cost torque. I would think it would
> be a lot like swapping lightweight flywheels on to engines.
> > --- On Mon, 1/24/11, billmyong@ wrote:
> > From: billmyong@
> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 11:34 PM
> > �
> > Just so we are all on the same page.
> > �
> > The OEM alternator stator unit is positioned on the crankshaft.� This
> after market unit is sapping power from
> > the engine.� I have seen these before,
> > and they really pulled all the power from the engine.� So, is this belt
> driven unit making my 36hp unit weaker? Or am I
> > missing something?
> > �
> > Bill
> > �
> > -----Original
> > Message-----
> > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ]On Behalf Of TOM THIES
> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011
> > 3:23 PM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re:
> > Honda 600 upgrades
> > �
> > �
> > I think he is talking about an external alternator that they
> > have come up with..
> > -----
> > Original Message -----
> > From: misterpoopoohead@
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Monday, January 24,
> > 2011 3:08 PM
> > Subject: Re:
> > [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> > �
> > �
> > The alternator is not belt driven. The alternator is driven
> > directly from the main crank. The belt drive is for the cooling fan only.
> > Sent
> > from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > From: "honda600wiz"
> >
> > Sender:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Date: Mon,
> > 24 Jan 2011 12:28:06 -0000
> > To: >
> > ReplyTo:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas]
> > Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> > �
> > �
> > The alternator is belt driven just like the cooling fan, gates
> > belt #7250 is working fine.
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> > wrote:
> > > So, how is the alternator operating? Belt driven?
> > > Bill
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ]On
> > Behalf Of honda600wiz
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 5:05 AM
> > > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Honda 600 upgrades
> > > The electric fan is used for better cooling and also allow more room for
> > > the alternator, using the stock fan did not allow for this. In this set
> up
> > > there is no need for the stator, voltage regulator, brush assembly or
> > > rectifier and the fan is very easily removed if needed not complicated
> to
> > > remove like the factory set up. Myself and the owner of DC engineering
> > will
> > > continue to test, mointor and document our findings at testings
> continues.
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> > goinhm@ wrote:
> > > > That is great news! When you get a chance, tell us more details on
> > the
> > > > alternator and the electronic ignition.
> > > > What is the advantage of the electric cooling fan? I think the stock
> > > > mechanical system is pretty efficient and requires very little power
> > to
> > > operate
> > > > (it has a low mass fan and the belt tension is very light, the
> > bearings
> > > at
> > > > the pulleys appear to be low friction).
> > > > thanks for the info,
> > > > Dale
> > > > Happy to report that the team of the Honda 600 Shop and DC
> > Engineering
> > > of
> > > > Opp Alabama we have been able to design a electronic ignition,
> > electric
> > > > cooling fan and a one wire alternator set up on the Honda 600 cars
> > and
> > > so far
> > > > everything is working well. all the bugs are worked out and we look
> > > foward
> > > > to helping other Honda 600 owners with this set up in the near
> > future.