Electronic Ignition!

[lyletrudell]

Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's. As usual nothing is available for us!
But, I found this site:
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 & 750...
I bugged him until he finally decided to help me with my Honda coupe.
I got his Yamaha 650 electronic ignition kit and modified it to fit.
Not easy to do as you will see from the pictures.
A new plate, new rotor, special washer and shorter magnets.
Pete, gave me all the electronic info, and ideas to mount and time the unit. I am not good at electronic stuff, but he walked me through it.
Not only does it look good, but it works great too.
Only 3 wires to hookup and it looks totally stock.
Thanks Pete!
See pictures in the picture section.
I will get more info.
Lyle

[zinc2u]

Hi Lyle,
      That electronic ignition looks nice.
     Can you see a manufacturer part number on the hall effect sensor mounted on the rotor?  I am interested in looking up the operating temperature on the device.  Most of these sensors which I have seen are good for 125 to 150 degrees centigrade (which is about 250 to 300 F).  It gets pretty hot in that points housing.
thanks for any info you can pass along,
Dale

> Was
> looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's. As > usual nothing is available for us!
> But, I found this site:
> http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
> The
> owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He has > produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 & > 750...

[lyletrudell]

Hi Dale, Email Pete about the hall effect sensor . He designed and built the unit himself, Pamco is Pete M company. It has been running on stock and modified air cooled Yamaha 650's for a few years with no problems.
Check out the 650 club for feedback.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Lyle,
> That electronic ignition looks nice.
> Can you see a manufacturer part number on the hall effect sensor
> mounted on the rotor? I am interested in looking up the operating temperature
> on the device. Most of these sensors which I have seen are good for 125 to
> 150 degrees centigrade (which is about 250 to 300 F). It gets pretty hot
> in that points housing.
> thanks for any info you can pass along,
> Dale
> Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's.
> As usual nothing is available for us!
> But, I found this site:
> _
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/_
(
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/)
> The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He
> has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 &
> 750...

[lyletrudell]

Hi Dale, I talked to Pete about heat.
The specs are in the web site:
www.yamahaxs650.com
Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink.
Check out the rotor and plate I made on my CNC mill in the photo section.
Both my cars are not on the road so I will be looking for a test Honda 600 to do
a durability run, anyone interested?
Poll?
Maybe we should do a poll to see if anybody is interested in an electronic
ignition for our Honda's.
No points to wear out, no condensor and timing never changes!
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Hi Dale, Email Pete about the hall effect sensor . He designed and built the unit himself, Pamco is Pete M company. It has been running on stock and modified air cooled Yamaha 650's for a few years with no problems.
> Check out the 650 club for feedback.
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@ wrote:
> > Hi Lyle,
> > That electronic ignition looks nice.
> > Can you see a manufacturer part number on the hall effect sensor
> > mounted on the rotor? I am interested in looking up the operating temperature
> > on the device. Most of these sensors which I have seen are good for 125 to
> > 150 degrees centigrade (which is about 250 to 300 F). It gets pretty hot
> > in that points housing.
> > thanks for any info you can pass along,
> > Dale
> > Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's.
> > As usual nothing is available for us!
> > But, I found this site:
> > _
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/_
(
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/)
> > The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He
> > has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 &
> > 750...

[lostideas]

I think its a nice upgrade. Did you order the Yamaha kit and modify it your self or did Pete make a modified kit for you? Just wondering if our "modified kit" costs would be close to the pricing for his current kits. I've seen other conversions but this is the first I've seen that allows timing advance unit to work.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Hi Dale, I talked to Pete about heat.
> The specs are in the web site:
> www.yamahaxs650.com
> Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
> Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
> The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink.
> Check out the rotor and plate I made on my CNC mill in the photo section.
> Both my cars are not on the road so I will be looking for a test Honda 600 to do
> a durability run, anyone interested?
> Poll?
> Maybe we should do a poll to see if anybody is interested in an electronic
> ignition for our Honda's.
> No points to wear out, no condensor and timing never changes!
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Hi Dale, Email Pete about the hall effect sensor . He designed and built the unit himself, Pamco is Pete M company. It has been running on stock and modified air cooled Yamaha 650's for a few years with no problems.
> > Check out the 650 club for feedback.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@ wrote:
> > > Hi Lyle,
> > > That electronic ignition looks nice.
> > > Can you see a manufacturer part number on the hall effect sensor
> > > mounted on the rotor? I am interested in looking up the operating temperature
> > > on the device. Most of these sensors which I have seen are good for 125 to
> > > 150 degrees centigrade (which is about 250 to 300 F). It gets pretty hot
> > > in that points housing.
> > > thanks for any info you can pass along,
> > > Dale
> > > Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's.
> > > As usual nothing is available for us!
> > > But, I found this site:
> > > _
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/_
(
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/)
> > > The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He
> > > has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 &
> > > 750...

[lyletrudell]

Yes, I ordered the Yamaha kit from Pete and pulled the Hall unit off.
Could not use the rotor or plate.
Pete's electronic and mechanical knowledge was a big factor in even considering this project. If we do want to go with making these we will need him to help us.
Plate, I measured the old Honda plate and made an adapter plate to mount his electronics. Not that easy because of getting the magnets and hall sensor in the right orientation.
Rotor, the Yamaha 2 cylinder rotor is pretty simple, the advance unit is on the opposite side of the motor.
But, our Honda 600 rotor is complex because of the slots for the advance dogs, magnet holes, close tolerance ID bore and recessed bore for a special washer. Not an easy part to manufacture or deburr.
I wanted it to be a basic bolt in assembly.
*Simple 3 wire hookup.
*Use stock coil and plugs or upgrade if you want.
*Use stock advance plate and vacuum unit.
*Bolt adapter plate and electronics on with 2 screws.
*Just remove old rotor and install new one.
*Unit clears stock cover.
Pricing, that will depend on how many units we make.
The 650 Yamaha is a very popular motorcycle and has been produced for years.
Our Honda's are low volume at best, maybe we could sell 50-100 units max.
Price if the Honda folks come up with a plan, could be in the $120-150 range, no profit for sure.
If I do make ignition kits, they will be for club members only and
for off road use or racing use only.
Contact me if you want to get in on this project.
craft59@...
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lostideas" wrote:
> I think its a nice upgrade. Did you order the Yamaha kit and modify it your self or did Pete make a modified kit for you? Just wondering if our "modified kit" costs would be close to the pricing for his current kits. I've seen other conversions but this is the first I've seen that allows timing advance unit to work.
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Hi Dale, I talked to Pete about heat.
> > The specs are in the web site:
> > www.yamahaxs650.com
> > Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
> > Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
> > The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink.
> > Check out the rotor and plate I made on my CNC mill in the photo section.
> > Both my cars are not on the road so I will be looking for a test Honda 600 to do
> > a durability run, anyone interested?
> > Poll?
> > Maybe we should do a poll to see if anybody is interested in an electronic
> > ignition for our Honda's.
> > No points to wear out, no condensor and timing never changes!
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > > Hi Dale, Email Pete about the hall effect sensor . He designed and built the unit himself, Pamco is Pete M company. It has been running on stock and modified air cooled Yamaha 650's for a few years with no problems.
> > > Check out the 650 club for feedback.
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@ wrote:
> > > > Hi Lyle,
> > > > That electronic ignition looks nice.
> > > > Can you see a manufacturer part number on the hall effect sensor
> > > > mounted on the rotor? I am interested in looking up the operating temperature
> > > > on the device. Most of these sensors which I have seen are good for 125 to
> > > > 150 degrees centigrade (which is about 250 to 300 F). It gets pretty hot
> > > > in that points housing.
> > > > thanks for any info you can pass along,
> > > > Dale
> > > > Was looking on line for an electronic ignition for our 2 cylinder Honda's.
> > > > As usual nothing is available for us!
> > > > But, I found this site:
> > > > _
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/_
(
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/)
> > > > The owner is Pete and he love's electronic stuff, and he is a good guy. He
> > > > has produced ignitions for the Yamaha 650, is working on a Honda 450 &
> > > > 750...

[zinc2u]

Hi Lyle,
   Thanks for checking.  I will have to send Pete a message.  I see where the operating temp is rated as good to 302 F and I think that compartment can exceed this temperature once the cover is in place.  The aluminum adapter may act like a heat sink but if the cover is on and the ambient temperature inside the housing is 300 F,  the parts will not be any cooler than this temperature.  I may be interested in one of these units but I first want to make sure the parts are operating in their safe operating area.  I don't doubt the unit  seems to work very well but I want to have some confidence in its reliability because electronic parts tend to fail catastrophically which would leave me stuck on the side of the road waiting for a tow.
Thanks for your efforts in locating this item.
Dale

> Hi
> Dale, I talked to Pete about heat.
> The specs are in the web site:
> www.yamahaxs650.com
> Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to
> 302F)
> Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like > other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
> The aluminum adapter plate is
> like a heat sink.

[lyletrudell]

Hi Dale, I am sure Bill has a temp gage, when he was working on his oil cooler project he had temp readings from all over the engine. Harbor Freight Tools sells them for less than $10. Then we can get get an accurate temp reading inside the housing.
Pete, says the Yamaha point housing is about 200F.
My Honda's are apart so I can't check it.
Anybody want to check the temp?
Thanks
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Lyle,
> Thanks for checking. I will have to send Pete a message. I see where
> the operating temp is rated as good to 302 F and I think that compartment
> can exceed this temperature once the cover is in place. The aluminum
> adapter may act like a heat sink but if the cover is on and the ambient
> temperature inside the housing is 300 F, the parts will not be any cooler than this
> temperature. I may be interested in one of these units but I first want
> to make sure the parts are operating in their safe operating area. I don't
> doubt the unit seems to work very well but I want to have some confidence
> in its reliability because electronic parts tend to fail catastrophically
> which would leave me stuck on the side of the road waiting for a tow.
> Thanks for your efforts in locating this item.
> Dale
> Hi Dale, I talked to Pete about heat.
> The specs are in the web site:
> www.yamahaxs650.com
> Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
> Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like
> other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
> The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink.

[friend]

I used a cylinder head temp gauge to check the cylinder head temp, and have readings up in the 340 to 350 range.  That is taken from right under the spark plug.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> lyletrudell
> Sent:
> Monday, June 14, 2010 6:08 PM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Re:
> Electronic Ignition!
> Hi Dale, I am sure Bill has a temp gage, when he was working on his oil > cooler project he had temp readings from all over the engine. Harbor Freight > Tools sells them for less than $10. Then we can get get an accurate temp > reading inside the housing.
> Pete, says the Yamaha point housing is about
> 200F.
> My Honda's are apart so I can't check it.
> Anybody want to check
> the temp?
> Thanks
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> goinhm@... wrote:
> > Hi Lyle,
> > Thanks for
> checking. I will have to send Pete a message. I see where > > the > operating temp is rated as good to 302 F and I think that compartment
> can exceed this temperature once the cover is in place. The aluminum
> adapter may act like a heat sink but if the cover is on and the ambient
> > temperature inside the housing is 300 F, the parts will not be any > cooler than this > > temperature. I may be interested in one of these > units but I first want > > to make sure the parts are operating in their > safe operating area. I don't > > doubt the unit seems to work very well > but I want to have some confidence > > in its reliability because > electronic parts tend to fail catastrophically > > which would leave me > stuck on the side of the road waiting for a tow.
> > Thanks for
> your efforts in locating this item.
> > Dale
> > Hi Dale, I talked to Pete about heat.
> > The specs are in the
> web site:
> > www.yamahaxs650.com
> > Operating Temperature: -40 to
> +150C (-40 to 302F)
> > Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum
> instead of plastic like
> > other manufacturers of ignitions for
> cars.
> > The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat
> sink.

[lyletrudell]

Hi Bill, glad you joined in, you have been involved with this project for awhile.
340-350f that is the same temp I get on our 2 cycle racing Go-Karts under the plug, perfect temp. One of the ways we kept track of carb tuning.
I want to make sure that our point housing stays below 300F degree's.
I don't think it will ever get over 220-240F. That is about what the head and fins would get on our Go-Karts away from the plug area.
Do you have a gage or can you borrow one?
My Honda's are not running....yet.
Thanks
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> I used a cylinder head temp gauge to check the cylinder head temp, and have
> readings up in the 340 to 350 range. That is taken from right under the
> spark plug.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of lyletrudell
> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 6:08 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Electronic Ignition!
> Hi Dale, I am sure Bill has a temp gage, when he was working on his oil
> cooler project he had temp readings from all over the engine. Harbor Freight
> Tools sells them for less than $10. Then we can get get an accurate temp
> reading inside the housing.
> Pete, says the Yamaha point housing is about 200F.
> My Honda's are apart so I can't check it.
> Anybody want to check the temp?
> Thanks
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@ wrote:
> > Hi Lyle,
> > Thanks for checking. I will have to send Pete a message. I see where
> > the operating temp is rated as good to 302 F and I think that
> compartment
> > can exceed this temperature once the cover is in place. The aluminum
> > adapter may act like a heat sink but if the cover is on and the ambient
> > temperature inside the housing is 300 F, the parts will not be any
> cooler than this
> > temperature. I may be interested in one of these units but I first want
> > to make sure the parts are operating in their safe operating area. I
> don't
> > doubt the unit seems to work very well but I want to have some
> confidence
> > in its reliability because electronic parts tend to fail
> catastrophically
> > which would leave me stuck on the side of the road waiting for a tow.
> > Thanks for your efforts in locating this item.
> > Dale
> > Hi Dale, I talked to Pete about heat.
> > The specs are in the web site:
> > www.yamahaxs650.com
> > Operating Temperature: -40 to +150C (-40 to 302F)
> > Heat is why we made the rotor out of aluminum instead of plastic like
> > other manufacturers of ignitions for cars.
> > The aluminum adapter plate is like a heat sink.