What would you do?? No Cam Chain Tensioning Roller Wheel

[Mega]

Hi guys,
I'm just curious - what would most experienced Honda 600 engine rebuilders do if they really needed a new cam chain tensioning roller like I do.
(This Part):
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0822.jpg
Would they just keep waiting till finally someone posted a decent used one on Ebay? Or would they simply keep using the old one even if it's realy worn down? Or would they try to fabricate their own replacement part using a block of special plastic machined to the right shape or a metal chain gear modified slightly?
Even when this part does occasionally appear on Ebay, you have to be right there and ready when it appears or some one else will get it since the demand is so high.
It seams like this is a part that usually has to be replaced when rebuilding an engine, so what do people in my situation usually do??
Any input or stories would be VERY helpful.
thanks,
Mike.

[lyletrudell]

Mike, it sounds like you want the engine back together pretty fast. We just started working on a new tensioner roller, but it's still in the design stage. Want to make it reliable so it will last 75K miles or more.
See the "New tensioner roller" Post, add your thoughts if you want.
Check out Ebay, there is a nice used cam and primary tensioner listed right now.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Mega" wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I'm just curious - what would most experienced Honda 600 engine rebuilders do if they really needed a new cam chain tensioning roller like I do.
> (This Part):
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0822.jpg
> Would they just keep waiting till finally someone posted a decent used one on Ebay? Or would they simply keep using the old one even if it's realy worn down? Or would they try to fabricate their own replacement part using a block of special plastic machined to the right shape or a metal chain gear modified slightly?
> Even when this part does occasionally appear on Ebay, you have to be right there and ready when it appears or some one else will get it since the demand is so high.
> It seams like this is a part that usually has to be replaced when rebuilding an engine, so what do people in my situation usually do??
> Any input or stories would be VERY helpful.
> thanks,
> Mike.

[Mega]

Hi Lyle,
I only have till the end of July to use the school shop to work on my engine.
My engine rebuilding professor has had experience fabricating his own parts on more than one occasion.
He recommends using a piece of Lexan. It's very strong and durable plastic, and it would be easy to machine into the right shape.
I'm considering the idea of making my own, and I'm also continueing to look for a NOS part as well. I didn't see the one on Ebay that you mentioned though.
Mike.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Mike, it sounds like you want the engine back together pretty fast. We just started working on a new tensioner roller, but it's still in the design stage. Want to make it reliable so it will last 75K miles or more.
> See the "New tensioner roller" Post, add your thoughts if you want.
> Check out Ebay, there is a nice used cam and primary tensioner listed right now.
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Mega" wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> > I'm just curious - what would most experienced Honda 600 engine rebuilders do if they really needed a new cam chain tensioning roller like I do.
> > (This Part):
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0822.jpg
> > Would they just keep waiting till finally someone posted a decent used one on Ebay? Or would they simply keep using the old one even if it's realy worn down? Or would they try to fabricate their own replacement part using a block of special plastic machined to the right shape or a metal chain gear modified slightly?
> > Even when this part does occasionally appear on Ebay, you have to be right there and ready when it appears or some one else will get it since the demand is so high.
> > It seams like this is a part that usually has to be replaced when rebuilding an engine, so what do people in my situation usually do??
> > Any input or stories would be VERY helpful.
> > thanks,
> > Mike.

[lyletrudell]

Mike, your right the roller I saw was the guide roller, sorry.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... .m748&item\
=400123193930&viewitem=&_trkparms=clkid%3D7422571020054092578
Polycarbonate or Lexan is only rated for 200F degrees, I would not use it.
Since you only have 3-4 weeks of school left, I would just get a used one and put the engine back together.
Contact all the Honda guys from Steve's link list on his website.
Somebody has to have one.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Mega" wrote:
> Hi Lyle,
> I only have till the end of July to use the school shop to work on my engine.
> My engine rebuilding professor has had experience fabricating his own parts on more than one occasion.
> He recommends using a piece of Lexan. It's very strong and durable plastic, and it would be easy to machine into the right shape.
> I'm considering the idea of making my own, and I'm also continueing to look for a NOS part as well. I didn't see the one on Ebay that you mentioned though.
> Mike.
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Mike, it sounds like you want the engine back together pretty fast. We just started working on a new tensioner roller, but it's still in the design stage. Want to make it reliable so it will last 75K miles or more.
> > See the "New tensioner roller" Post, add your thoughts if you want.
> > Check out Ebay, there is a nice used cam and primary tensioner listed right now.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Mega" wrote:
> > > Hi guys,
> > > I'm just curious - what would most experienced Honda 600 engine rebuilders do if they really needed a new cam chain tensioning roller like I do.
> > > (This Part):
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0822.jpg
> > > Would they just keep waiting till finally someone posted a decent used one on Ebay? Or would they simply keep using the old one even if it's realy worn down? Or would they try to fabricate their own replacement part using a block of special plastic machined to the right shape or a metal chain gear modified slightly?
> > > Even when this part does occasionally appear on Ebay, you have to be right there and ready when it appears or some one else will get it since the demand is so high.
> > > It seams like this is a part that usually has to be replaced when rebuilding an engine, so what do people in my situation usually do??
> > > Any input or stories would be VERY helpful.
> > > thanks,
> > > Mike.

[Love]

I'm a little behind on the materials thread, but I asked a car buddy who was a plastics engineer in Detroit. His advice is;  you're probably thinking of Delrin, an acetal from Dupont - DO NOT USE THIS IN THE ENGINE!  It can't handle the heat - you must use high temp 66 nylon or Torlon or Vespel - nothing else is used in engines - too much heat.  The best material would be Dupont's Zytel nylon 66, type no. 45 HSB - it's used for chain guides in lots of production engines.  Delrin will heat age very fast and crumble.  Nylon will not, but you need type 66 nylon, not a type 6 - type 6 melts at around 400 F, but 66 nylon will go to 500 F.
Bruce Dewing Santa Clara, CA

On Jun 30, 2010, at 6:49 PM, "lyletrudell" wrote:
Mike, it sounds like you want the engine back together pretty fast. We just started working on a new tensioner roller, but it's still in the design stage. Want to make it reliable so it will last 75K miles or more.
See the "New tensioner roller" Post, add your thoughts if you want.
Check out Ebay, there is a nice used cam and primary tensioner listed right now.
Lyle
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Mega" wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I'm just curious - what would most experienced Honda 600 engine rebuilders do if they really needed a new cam chain tensioning roller like I do.
> (This Part):
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0822.jpg
> Would they just keep waiting till finally someone posted a decent used one on Ebay? Or would they simply keep using the old one even if it's realy worn down? Or would they try to fabricate their own replacement part using a block of special plastic machined to the right shape or a metal chain gear modified slightly?
> Even when this part does occasionally appear on Ebay, you have to be right there and ready when it appears or some one else will get it since the demand is so high.
> It seams like this is a part that usually has to be replaced when rebuilding an engine, so what do people in my situation usually do??
> Any input or stories would be VERY helpful.
> thanks,
> Mike.

[lyletrudell]

Thanks Bruce!
A Plastic engineer, how much better can you get than that for help.
Nylon 66 sounds perfect.
I have never machined it or even heard of it.
Now if the price is good.
I did pull my engine apart to check things out.
The past owner rebuilt it.
The cam chain rollers look like new!
But the slipper is wrong and the pin area in the cylinder is damaged from the slipper pin coming out and then the slipper!!!
Glad I pulled it apart, it would have failed again for sure!
See pictures in photo section.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, Bruce Dewing wrote:
> I'm a little behind on the materials thread, but I asked a car buddy
> who was a plastics engineer in Detroit. His advice is; you're probably
> thinking of Delrin, an acetal from Dupont - DO NOT USE THIS IN THE
> ENGINE! It can't handle the heat - you must use high temp 66 nylon or
> Torlon or Vespel - nothing else is used in engines - too much heat.
> The best material would be Dupont's Zytel nylon 66, type no. 45 HSB -
> it's used for chain guides in lots of production engines. Delrin will
> heat age very fast and crumble. Nylon will not, but you need type 66
> nylon, not a type 6 - type 6 melts at around 400 F, but 66 nylon will
> go to 500 F.
> Bruce Dewing
> Santa Clara, CA
> On Jun 30, 2010, at 6:49 PM, "lyletrudell"
> wrote:
> > Mike, it sounds like you want the engine back together pretty fast.
> > We just started working on a new tensioner roller, but it's still in
> > the design stage. Want to make it reliable so it will last 75K miles
> > or more.
> > See the "New tensioner roller" Post, add your thoughts if you want.
> > Check out Ebay, there is a nice used cam and primary tensioner
> > listed right now.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Mega"
> > wrote:
> > > Hi guys,
> > > I'm just curious - what would most experienced Honda 600 engine
> > rebuilders do if they really needed a new cam chain tensioning
> > roller like I do.
> > > (This Part):
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0822.jpg
> > > Would they just keep waiting till finally someone posted a decent
> > used one on Ebay? Or would they simply keep using the old one even
> > if it's realy worn down? Or would they try to fabricate their own
> > replacement part using a block of special plastic machined to the
> > right shape or a metal chain gear modified slightly?
> > > Even when this part does occasionally appear on Ebay, you have to
> > be right there and ready when it appears or some one else will get
> > it since the demand is so high.
> > > It seams like this is a part that usually has to be replaced when
> > rebuilding an engine, so what do people in my situation usually do??
> > > Any input or stories would be VERY helpful.
> > > thanks,
> > > Mike.