I want to eliminate my heat exchanger, since I live in Florida.
Less under hood heat and less back pressure would be a plus.
The stock exhaust header pipes are poorly matched (1/8" off)to the exhaust
ports.
All the flanges, multiple gaskets, heat exchanger and all the twists/turns can't
be good for exhaust flow or mileage/performance.
I want the primary tubes to go the same way as the stock system, that way all
the mounting brackets could be used.
Was looking at my header notes and came up with this for a stock engine header.
* 1-1/4" primary tubes.
* 30-32" long, equal length, if space allows.
* 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-3/8 ID.
* Then 1-3/8 OD exhaust to a free flow muffler and resonator?
Then I will rejet the carb.
My 72 coupe is stock.
Thoughts?
Lyle
Header design and exhaust
Re: Header design and exhaust
Sounds simple enough. What's the hold up?
--- On
Tue, 8/31/10, lyletrudell
wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 3:56 PM
> I want to eliminate my heat exchanger, since I live in Florida.
> Less under hood heat and less back pressure would be a plus.
> The stock exhaust header pipes are poorly matched (1/8" off)to the exhaust > ports.
> All the flanges, multiple gaskets, heat exchanger and all the twists/turns can't > be good for exhaust flow or mileage/performance.
> I want the primary tubes to go the same way as the stock system, that way all > the mounting brackets could be used.
> Was looking at my header notes and came up with this for a stock engine header.
> * 1-1/4" primary tubes.
> * 30-32" long, equal length, if space allows.
> * 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-3/8 ID.
> * Then 1-3/8 OD exhaust to a free flow muffler and resonator?
> Then I will rejet the carb.
> My 72 coupe is stock.
> Thoughts?
> Lyle
Re: Header design and exhaust
I stumbled across a british company a while back that had full stainless exhaust system but the 1300-2400 dollar price tag was a little more than what my car is worth lol
From: lyletrudell
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:27 PM
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroupscom
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
Paul, glad you stepped up to make them.
Not my trade, but I have made a couple prototype headers, have a TIG welder, but I am really slow at it!
Had lunch with my racer bike buddy and we changed a few things.
Updated info, for a stock engine header.
RPM range 3,000 to 6,500.
* One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port alignment.
* Copper header rings, not tube type.
* 1-1/4" primary tubes.
* 30-32" long, equal length, stock brackets used.
* 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-3/8 ID.
* 1-3/8 OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow muffler.
* 1-1/2" pipe over rear axle to a rice rocket resonator.
Then I will rejet the carb.
My 72 coupe is stock.
Thoughts?
Lyle
From: lyletrudell
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:27 PM
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroupscom
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
Paul, glad you stepped up to make them.
Not my trade, but I have made a couple prototype headers, have a TIG welder, but I am really slow at it!
Had lunch with my racer bike buddy and we changed a few things.
Updated info, for a stock engine header.
RPM range 3,000 to 6,500.
* One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port alignment.
* Copper header rings, not tube type.
* 1-1/4" primary tubes.
* 30-32" long, equal length, stock brackets used.
* 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-3/8 ID.
* 1-3/8 OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow muffler.
* 1-1/2" pipe over rear axle to a rice rocket resonator.
Then I will rejet the carb.
My 72 coupe is stock.
Thoughts?
Lyle
[The entire original message is not included]--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, paul tate wrote:
> Sounds simple enough.� What's the hold up?
> --- On Tue, 8/31/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 3:56 PM
> �
> I want to eliminate my heat exchanger, since I live in Florida.
> Less under hood heat and les
-
lyletrudell
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:54 pm
Re: Header design and exhaust
Jerry, a mild steel header should be pretty cheap.
The problem with designing a header is the RPM you want for the best power.
I was calculating about 4,000 to 5,000?
So the numbers will change depending on RPM.
On my 2006 750 Gixxer it has a computer controlled butterfly valve that blocks the exhaust at low rpm's and opens at higher rpm's. So it makes power at all RPM's!!!
We have to find a happy medium, just like the Honda engineers did.
But I don't have to worry about a heater.
Latest numbers:
* One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port alignment.
* Copper header rings, not tube type.
* 1-1/4" primary tubes.
* 32-34" long, equal length, stock brackets used.
* 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-1/2 ID.
* 1-1/2 OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow muffler.
* 1-3/4" OD pipe over rear axle to a rice rocket resonator.
Then I will rejet the carb.
My 72 coupe is stock.
Thoughts?
Lyle
The problem with designing a header is the RPM you want for the best power.
I was calculating about 4,000 to 5,000?
So the numbers will change depending on RPM.
On my 2006 750 Gixxer it has a computer controlled butterfly valve that blocks the exhaust at low rpm's and opens at higher rpm's. So it makes power at all RPM's!!!
We have to find a happy medium, just like the Honda engineers did.
But I don't have to worry about a heater.
Latest numbers:
* One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port alignment.
* Copper header rings, not tube type.
* 1-1/4" primary tubes.
* 32-34" long, equal length, stock brackets used.
* 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-1/2 ID.
* 1-1/2 OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow muffler.
* 1-3/4" OD pipe over rear axle to a rice rocket resonator.
Then I will rejet the carb.
My 72 coupe is stock.
Thoughts?
Lyle
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, Jerry wrote:
> I stumbled across a british company a while back that had full stainless exhaust system but the 1300-2400 dollar price tag was a little more than what my car is worth lol
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lyletrudell
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:27 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
> Paul, glad you stepped up to make them.
> Not my trade, but I have made a couple prototype headers, have a TIG welder, but I am really slow at it!
> Had lunch with my racer bike buddy and we changed a few things.
> Updated info, for a stock engine header.
> RPM range 3,000 to 6,500.
> * One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port alignment.
> * Copper header rings, not tube type.
> * 1-1/4" primary tubes.
> * 30-32" long, equal length, stock brackets used.
> * 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-3/8 ID.
> * 1-3/8 OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow muffler.
> * 1-1/2" pipe over rear axle to a rice rocket resonator.
> Then I will rejet the carb.
> My 72 coupe is stock.
> Thoughts?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, paul tate wrote:
> > Sounds simple enough. What's the hold up?
> > --- On Tue, 8/31/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> > From: lyletrudell
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 3:56 PM
> > I want to eliminate my heat exchanger, since I live in Florida.
> > Less under hood heat and les
> [The entire original message is not included]
Re: Header design and exhaust
Lyle;
It's
understandable how headers can assist in greater volume of exhaust being removed from the engine just through less restriction which would be an asset. But, the heater is a radiated heat transfer unit. Meaning heat is transferred from the exhaust piping into a box that is blown into the cars cabin through a duct system. Removing the box will allow all of that radiated heat to transfer into the engine compartment which would mean the heat will be more while the car is standing still, but negligible at speed.
Wrapping the existing header pipes would reduce radiated heat from the exhaust piping. However the greatest amount of heat is generated from from the cylinders and head of the engine, which is air cooled. And, all that heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into the cars cabin. Making sure the cars cabin fire wall insulation is in tact is a must. If water jackets were fitted to the cylinders that would help keep the engine compartment temperature down.
Honda gained great strides with the Honda Life giving it a water cooled two cylinder engine. Did Honda ever bore a Life engine to 700 cc ? With water cooling and dual carb's it would be a performer.
Also, on the subject of a heater, the unit provides a defroster which helps when there is fog in the morning and Florida has it's share of fog.
Just a thought.
Bill
It's
understandable how headers can assist in greater volume of exhaust being removed from the engine just through less restriction which would be an asset. But, the heater is a radiated heat transfer unit. Meaning heat is transferred from the exhaust piping into a box that is blown into the cars cabin through a duct system. Removing the box will allow all of that radiated heat to transfer into the engine compartment which would mean the heat will be more while the car is standing still, but negligible at speed.
Wrapping the existing header pipes would reduce radiated heat from the exhaust piping. However the greatest amount of heat is generated from from the cylinders and head of the engine, which is air cooled. And, all that heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into the cars cabin. Making sure the cars cabin fire wall insulation is in tact is a must. If water jackets were fitted to the cylinders that would help keep the engine compartment temperature down.
Honda gained great strides with the Honda Life giving it a water cooled two cylinder engine. Did Honda ever bore a Life engine to 700 cc ? With water cooling and dual carb's it would be a performer.
Also, on the subject of a heater, the unit provides a defroster which helps when there is fog in the morning and Florida has it's share of fog.
Just a thought.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> lyletrudell
> Sent:
> Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:36 PM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Re:
> Header design and exhaust
> Jerry, a mild steel header should be pretty cheap.
> The problem with
> designing a header is the RPM you want for the best power.
> I was
> calculating about 4,000 to 5,000?
> So the numbers will change depending on
> RPM.
> On my 2006 750 Gixxer it has a computer controlled butterfly valve > that blocks the exhaust at low rpm's and opens at higher rpm's. So it makes > power at all RPM's!!!
> We have to find a happy medium, just like the
> Honda engineers did.
> But I don't have to worry about a heater.
> Latest
> numbers:
> * One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port alignment.
> *
> Copper header rings, not tube type.
> * 1-1/4" primary tubes.
> * 32-34"
> long, equal length, stock brackets used.
> * 2 into 1 collector with an
> outlet of 1-1/2 ID.
> * 1-1/2 OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow
> muffler.
> * 1-3/4" OD pipe over rear axle to a rice rocket
> resonator.
> Then I will rejet the carb.
> My 72 coupe is
> stock.
> Thoughts?
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> Jerry wrote:
> > I stumbled across a british
> company a while back that had full stainless exhaust system but the 1300-2400 > dollar price tag was a little more than what my car is worth lol
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lyletrudell
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:27 PM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
> > Paul, glad you stepped up to make them.
> > Not my trade, but I
> have made a couple prototype headers, have a TIG welder, but I am really slow > at it!
> > Had lunch with my racer bike buddy and we changed a
> few things.
> > Updated info, for a stock engine header.
> > RPM range
> 3,000 to 6,500.
> > * One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port
> alignment.
> > * Copper header rings, not tube type.
> > * 1-1/4"
> primary tubes.
> > * 30-32" long, equal length, stock brackets
> used.
> > * 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-3/8 ID.
> > * 1-3/8
> OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow muffler.
> > * 1-1/2" pipe over rear
> axle to a rice rocket resonator.
> > Then I will rejet the carb.
> My 72 coupe is stock.
> > Thoughts?
> > Lyle
> > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> paul tate wrote:
> > > Sounds simple
> enough.� What's the hold up?
> > > --- On Tue,
> 8/31/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> > > From: lyletrudell
> > > Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
> > > To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 3:56 PM
> > �
> > > I want to
> eliminate my heat exchanger, since I live in Florida.
> > > Less under
> hood heat and les
> > [The entire original message is not
> included]
Re: Header design and exhaust
From what I have seen the water cooled two cylinders never got above 360cc , the bore up kits all stop at 400cc due to cylinder bore to water jacket clearance, as for heater function ,the rest of the world never got the exchanger with blower fan like we did. They had a different fan housing that had duct that ran to firewall, using the engine driven fan to also push hot air into car. Its my understanding that we had the upgraded heater due to colder northern (below freezing) climates. As for heat soak I've seen the performance kits actually route one downpipe around the drivers side and one around the passengers side with union under the vehicle, it might just be for ease of piping but could also be for heat dispersion? Ill post some pics up later today if I can find them
From: billmyong@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:25 AM
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroupscom
Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Header design and exhaust
Lyle;
It's
understandable how headers can assist in greater volume of exhaust being removed from the engine just through less restriction which would be an asset. But, the heater is a radiated heat transfer unit. Meaning heat is transferred from the exhaust piping into a box that is blown into the cars cabin through a duct system. Removing the box will allow all of that radiated heat to transfer into the engine compartment which would mean the heat will be more while the car is standing still, but negligible at speed. Wrapping the existing header pipes would reduce radiated heat from the exhaust piping. However the greatest amount of heat is generated from from the cylinders and head of the engine, which is air cooled. And, all that heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into the cars cabin. Making sure the cars cabin fire wall insulation is in tact is a
[The entire original message is not included]
From: billmyong@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:25 AM
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroupscom
Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Header design and exhaust
Lyle;
It's
understandable how headers can assist in greater volume of exhaust being removed from the engine just through less restriction which would be an asset. But, the heater is a radiated heat transfer unit. Meaning heat is transferred from the exhaust piping into a box that is blown into the cars cabin through a duct system. Removing the box will allow all of that radiated heat to transfer into the engine compartment which would mean the heat will be more while the car is standing still, but negligible at speed. Wrapping the existing header pipes would reduce radiated heat from the exhaust piping. However the greatest amount of heat is generated from from the cylinders and head of the engine, which is air cooled. And, all that heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into the cars cabin. Making sure the cars cabin fire wall insulation is in tact is a
[The entire original message is not included]
-
lyletrudell
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:54 pm
Re: Header design and exhaust
Hi Bill, thanks for the input.
I have been giving this a lot of thought because this car will have no A/C and I do want to drive it in the summer, sweating sucks!!!!
Here is my theory.
My Florida Honda's heater fan will be off.
So the heat exchanger will get as hot as a header pipe, but it's designed to stay hot. Being made of cast iron, with fins and tight turns it's designed to restrict flow and hold heat. If it didn't the heater would be useless in cold climates. The down side is all the restriction is under the hood, next to an air cooled engine with just a fan to stay cool! Great for cool climates.
A thin header tube will never hold as much heat.
Yes, the header pipes will still get as hot, but the restriction will be back at the front muffler, not under the hood.
So I think under hood temps will be a lot lower with a header and for sure cool much quicker.
Like you said, all that heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into the cars cabin will also be a problem. I will make sure the fire wall insulation is as good or better than stock.
Since the car can't power an A/C unit the "heater" fan will now be a cool air fan. The intake will be ducted to the front grille area.
Yes, Florida get's fog, but I am on the west coast, so not as bad as sea fog like the east coast gets.
But a defroster is useful, so I will pull heat from the header pipe area, not as good as the heater but enough I think.
I will not chop anything up, I want to be able to go back to stock if I want to later.
Lyle
I have been giving this a lot of thought because this car will have no A/C and I do want to drive it in the summer, sweating sucks!!!!
Here is my theory.
My Florida Honda's heater fan will be off.
So the heat exchanger will get as hot as a header pipe, but it's designed to stay hot. Being made of cast iron, with fins and tight turns it's designed to restrict flow and hold heat. If it didn't the heater would be useless in cold climates. The down side is all the restriction is under the hood, next to an air cooled engine with just a fan to stay cool! Great for cool climates.
A thin header tube will never hold as much heat.
Yes, the header pipes will still get as hot, but the restriction will be back at the front muffler, not under the hood.
So I think under hood temps will be a lot lower with a header and for sure cool much quicker.
Like you said, all that heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into the cars cabin will also be a problem. I will make sure the fire wall insulation is as good or better than stock.
Since the car can't power an A/C unit the "heater" fan will now be a cool air fan. The intake will be ducted to the front grille area.
Yes, Florida get's fog, but I am on the west coast, so not as bad as sea fog like the east coast gets.
But a defroster is useful, so I will pull heat from the header pipe area, not as good as the heater but enough I think.
I will not chop anything up, I want to be able to go back to stock if I want to later.
Lyle
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> Lyle;
> It's understandable how headers can assist in greater volume of exhaust
> being removed from the engine just through less restriction which would be
> an asset. But, the heater is a radiated heat transfer unit. Meaning heat
> is transferred from the exhaust piping into a box that is blown into the
> cars cabin through a duct system. Removing the box will allow all of that
> radiated heat to transfer into the engine compartment which would mean the
> heat will be more while the car is standing still, but negligible at speed.
> Wrapping the existing header pipes would reduce radiated heat from the
> exhaust piping. However the greatest amount of heat is generated from from
> the cylinders and head of the engine, which is air cooled. And, all that
> heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into
> the cars cabin. Making sure the cars cabin fire wall insulation is in tact
> is a must. If water jackets were fitted to the cylinders that would help
> keep the engine compartment temperature down. Honda gained great strides
> with the Honda Life giving it a water cooled two cylinder engine. Did Honda
> ever bore a Life engine to 700 cc ? With water cooling and dual carb's it
> would be a performer.
> Also, on the subject of a heater, the unit provides a defroster which
> helps when there is fog in the morning and Florida has it's share of fog.
> Just a thought.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of lyletrudell
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:36 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Header design and exhaust
> Jerry, a mild steel header should be pretty cheap.
> The problem with designing a header is the RPM you want for the best
> power.
> I was calculating about 4,000 to 5,000?
> So the numbers will change depending on RPM.
> On my 2006 750 Gixxer it has a computer controlled butterfly valve that
> blocks the exhaust at low rpm's and opens at higher rpm's. So it makes power
> at all RPM's!!!
> We have to find a happy medium, just like the Honda engineers did.
> But I don't have to worry about a heater.
> Latest numbers:
> * One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port alignment.
> * Copper header rings, not tube type.
> * 1-1/4" primary tubes.
> * 32-34" long, equal length, stock brackets used.
> * 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-1/2 ID.
> * 1-1/2 OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow muffler.
> * 1-3/4" OD pipe over rear axle to a rice rocket resonator.
> Then I will rejet the carb.
> My 72 coupe is stock.
> Thoughts?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, Jerry wrote:
> > I stumbled across a british company a while back that had full stainless
> exhaust system but the 1300-2400 dollar price tag was a little more than
> what my car is worth lol
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lyletrudell
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:27 PM
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
> > Paul, glad you stepped up to make them.
> > Not my trade, but I have made a couple prototype headers, have a TIG
> welder, but I am really slow at it!
> > Had lunch with my racer bike buddy and we changed a few things.
> > Updated info, for a stock engine header.
> > RPM range 3,000 to 6,500.
> > * One piece 5/16" thick header flange, better port alignment.
> > * Copper header rings, not tube type.
> > * 1-1/4" primary tubes.
> > * 30-32" long, equal length, stock brackets used.
> > * 2 into 1 collector with an outlet of 1-3/8 ID.
> > * 1-3/8 OD exhaust pipe to a front free flow muffler.
> > * 1-1/2" pipe over rear axle to a rice rocket resonator.
> > Then I will rejet the carb.
> > My 72 coupe is stock.
> > Thoughts?
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, paul tate wrote:
> > > Sounds simple enough.� What's the hold up?
> > > --- On Tue, 8/31/10, lyletrudell wrote:
> > > From: lyletrudell
> > > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Header design and exhaust
> > > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 3:56 PM
> > > �
> > > I want to eliminate my heat exchanger, since I live in Florida.
> > > Less under hood heat and les
> > [The entire original message is not included]
-
lyletrudell
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:54 pm
Re: Header design and exhaust
Hi Jerry, pictures would be great of the Hawaiian set up.
Using the engine driven fan to push hot air into car is also a good option.
I guess, all I need is a Hawaiian set up.
Any for sale?
Lyle
Using the engine driven fan to push hot air into car is also a good option.
I guess, all I need is a Hawaiian set up.
Any for sale?
Lyle
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, Jerry wrote:
> From what I have seen the water cooled two cylinders never got above 360cc , the bore up kits all stop at 400cc due to cylinder bore to water jacket clearance, as for heater function ,the rest of the world never got the exchanger with blower fan like we did. They had a different fan housing that had duct that ran to firewall, using the engine driven fan to also push hot air into car. Its my understanding that we had the upgraded heater due to colder northern (below freezing) climates. As for heat soak I've seen the performance kits actually route one downpipe around the drivers side and one around the passengers side with union under the vehicle, it might just be for ease of piping but could also be for heat dispersion? Ill post some pics up later today if I can find them
> -----Original Message-----
> From: billmyong@...
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:25 AM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Header design and exhaust
> Lyle;
> �
> ���It's understandable how headers can assist in greater volume of exhaust being removed from the engine just through less restriction which would be an asset.� But, the heater is a radiated heat transfer unit.� Meaning heat is transferred from the exhaust piping into a box that is blown into the cars cabin through a duct system.� Removing the box will allow all of that radiated heat to transfer into the engine compartment which would�mean the heat will be more�while the�car is standing still, but negligible at speed. � Wrapping the existing header pipes would reduce radiated heat from the exhaust piping.� However the greatest amount of heat is generated from from the cylinders and head of the engine, which is air cooled.� And,�all that heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into the cars cabin.�� Making sure the cars cabin fire wall insulation is in tact�is a
> [The entire original message is not included]
Re: Header design and exhaust
threw a few pics up to give you an idea of what others are doing. ill find more later . also added photo for some nice wheels i found. enjoy
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Hi Jerry, pictures would be great of the Hawaiian set up.
> Using the engine driven fan to push hot air into car is also a good option.
> I guess, all I need is a Hawaiian set up.
> Any for sale?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, Jerry wrote:
> > From what I have seen the water cooled two cylinders never got above 360cc , the bore up kits all stop at 400cc due to cylinder bore to water jacket clearance, as for heater function ,the rest of the world never got the exchanger with blower fan like we did. They had a different fan housing that had duct that ran to firewall, using the engine driven fan to also push hot air into car. Its my understanding that we had the upgraded heater due to colder northern (below freezing) climates. As for heat soak I've seen the performance kits actually route one downpipe around the drivers side and one around the passengers side with union under the vehicle, it might just be for ease of piping but could also be for heat dispersion? Ill post some pics up later today if I can find them
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: billmyong@
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:25 AM
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Header design and exhaust
> > Lyle;
> > �
> > ���It's understandable how headers can assist in greater volume of exhaust being removed from the engine just through less restriction which would be an asset.� But, the heater is a radiated heat transfer unit.� Meaning heat is transferred from the exhaust piping into a box that is blown into the cars cabin through a duct system.� Removing the box will allow all of that radiated heat to transfer into the engine compartment which would�mean the heat will be more�while the�car is standing still, but negligible at speed. � Wrapping the existing header pipes would reduce radiated heat from the exhaust piping.� However the greatest amount of heat is generated from from the cylinders and head of the engine, which is air cooled.� And,�all that heat from the engine being blown against the fire wall and radiating into the cars cabin.�� Making sure the cars cabin fire wall insulation is in tact�is a
> > [The entire original message is not included]
Header design and exhaust
ALL
Folks, you all really need to get off the "Hawaiian" this and that kick. Yes, the Honda 600's built for and delivered to (Sold) in Hawaii had the early (Before engine number 1017730) angle port head (Part numbers 12200-568-681, after had 12200-568-671 with an earlier part number 12200-568-680). Along with other parts including the Y exhaust assembly are all listed in the parts manual. The Carburetor went up to engine number 1018981, which included the engines made for the cars sold in Hawaii. EPA got their hands in the mix and along came the later carb with a modification to the cam, and these other parts were removed from the parts books. Moving all of the exhaust to the left side of the engine compartment had more to do with fumes from a leaking engine getting into the passenger compartment from the heat generated from the cylinders and head, than anything else. The smell of heated oil is something most car guys dream of, but, not everyone. So Honda moved to the exhaust style heater unit which was available for Germany, Denmark and Norway/Sweden/Finland/Switzerland countries in early cars. It modified the Y exhaust system but only used a single side (left) of the exhaust header.
Evidently not hot enough to make it cozy inside the cabin, both exhaust pipes were moved to the left side and the engine compartment including the smelly heated oil were closed off from the cars interior. An electric fan was also mounted to the heater box and forced heated air was provided to the windshield and passenger cabin.
So it is not the "Hawaiian" engine that provides the angle port exhaust, but many countries that imported the Honda 600 in its early years. These areas should offer many more available parts, if your quest is to step back.
Bill
Folks, you all really need to get off the "Hawaiian" this and that kick. Yes, the Honda 600's built for and delivered to (Sold) in Hawaii had the early (Before engine number 1017730) angle port head (Part numbers 12200-568-681, after had 12200-568-671 with an earlier part number 12200-568-680). Along with other parts including the Y exhaust assembly are all listed in the parts manual. The Carburetor went up to engine number 1018981, which included the engines made for the cars sold in Hawaii. EPA got their hands in the mix and along came the later carb with a modification to the cam, and these other parts were removed from the parts books. Moving all of the exhaust to the left side of the engine compartment had more to do with fumes from a leaking engine getting into the passenger compartment from the heat generated from the cylinders and head, than anything else. The smell of heated oil is something most car guys dream of, but, not everyone. So Honda moved to the exhaust style heater unit which was available for Germany, Denmark and Norway/Sweden/Finland/Switzerland countries in early cars. It modified the Y exhaust system but only used a single side (left) of the exhaust header.
Evidently not hot enough to make it cozy inside the cabin, both exhaust pipes were moved to the left side and the engine compartment including the smelly heated oil were closed off from the cars interior. An electric fan was also mounted to the heater box and forced heated air was provided to the windshield and passenger cabin.
So it is not the "Hawaiian" engine that provides the angle port exhaust, but many countries that imported the Honda 600 in its early years. These areas should offer many more available parts, if your quest is to step back.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > goinhm@...
> Sent:
> Friday, September 03, 2010 11:28
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Header design and exhaust
> Hi Miles,
> Does the combustion chamber of the Hawaiian head look
> different than the Mainland US head? And did the Hawaiian engine have > the same compression ratio as the mainland engine?
> thx,
> Dale
> > A
> > Hawaiian header wont just bolt on unless you have the matching head. You > > will have to cut & reweld the parts that go in to the head. Hawaiians > > & Euro heads port out at an angle.
> > Miles