Re: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:52 am

Chas;
Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
Bill

richmccolman · Post by **richmccolman** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:21 pm

Bear in mind that the $70 price for the K&N filter that Bill mentions is a list price. Amazon has them for $42.99 each. The other point I'd like to make is that the K&N is a lifetime filter -- you clean it and then re-oil it over and over again. You should never need to buy another. And K&N filters come highly regarded, as I understand it, for filtering capability along with providing maximum air flow. You will need oil and cleaning solution too, but that stuff will last and last and last.
How much do the original NOS air filters for the 600 cars cost -- when you can get them? One seller has them listed for $55 each. I'm sure that that's a fair price, given the scarcity of them, but if you use that as a point of comparison, $42.99 is quite good for lifetime filter, and $70 (only $15 additional compared with the K&N list price) isn't bad, I think. If you figure that a rebuilt engine is going to run you hundreds to thousands of $$$, depending upon the level of work and replacement needed and depending upon whether you hire someone to do it or do it yourself, the protection that a really good filter provides is darn well worth it, IMHO.
As far as the level of difficulty in fabricating the spacer, it actually didn't take me but an hour and an half. Granted, I have a metal-cutting band saw and a drill press, but you could do essentially the same work using a jig saw with a metal-cutting blade and a handheld power drill with not much greater investment of time.
In the end, I'm not pressing anyone to do the same thing that I did. I merely put the idea out there for anyone who might be interested. Sooner or later, folks' stock filter could deteriorate and need replacement (my stock filter had holes in the filter material), and the supply of NOS filters will eventually become depleted. I suspect that folks will need some options. This happens to be one.
Richard

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Bill" wrote:
> Chas;
> Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
> amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
> swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another
> suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and
> wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch
> cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> Bill
> _____
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of Chas
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it would
> just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter
> in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
> depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to ensure
> that they did not tip or twist.
> Chas
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "richmccolman"
> wrote:
> > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me to
> tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that should
> only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8
> inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
> appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the K&N
> filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original
> Honda 600 filter.
> > Richard
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , J Graf wrote:
> > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness as
> your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design that
> has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > John Graf
> > > Paragrafs.com
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "richmccolman"
> wrote:
> > > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
> "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
> filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter
> element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > Richard

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:40 am

Richard;
First, e-mail does not express the understanding, pat on the back or give the hand shake we all give each other when feelings are mutual. We have this forum to give our opinion on a topic to bring out an agreement or disagreement to further the better good.
Please don't stop sharing your ideas and suggestions on making things better for these cars.
We all know the advantages of the K&N filters, and there are other filters out there that will do the same. Driven daily an original filter has a 6 month life time depending on the area its driven in. There are also ways of extending the life of a air filter if done correctly. We can also remove the air box and attach a filter directly onto the carb. Losing the restrictive properties of the small air horn connected to the air box. Punch a hole into the side of the filter and run the return bypass hose to it and your much better off.
But then we lose the esthetics of the original air box look. That original look we all like.
I for one like the original look, I don't drive my Honda 600 cars enough to feel the 40 + mpg as they are used to promote the original look and feel of the Honda 600. Not to mention the fuel we are forced to put into our tanks, it's a wonder we get 30 mpg.

> So, we appreciate your work to make these cars keep
> running. There are no bad ideas, just the ones never tried. I like > to think of WD40, they had 39 times that proved they hadn't found what they > were looking for.
> Bill
From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of
richmccolman
Sent:
Wednesday, June 05, 2013 4:21 PM
To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
[anzhonda600owners]
[2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N
filter
Bear in mind that the $70 price for the K&N filter that Bill mentions is a list price. Amazon has them for $42.99 each. The other point I'd like to make is that the K&N is a lifetime filter -- you clean it and then re-oil it over and over again. You should never need to buy another. And K&N filters come highly regarded, as I understand it, for filtering capability along with providing maximum air flow. You will need oil and cleaning solution too, but that stuff will last and last and last.
How much do the original NOS air
filters for the 600 cars cost -- when you can get them? One seller has them listed for $55 each. I'm sure that that's a fair price, given the scarcity of them, but if you use that as a point of comparison, $42.99 is quite good for lifetime filter, and $70 (only $15 additional compared with the K&N list price) isn't bad, I think. If you figure that a rebuilt engine is going to run you hundreds to thousands of $$$, depending upon the level of work and replacement needed and depending upon whether you hire someone to do it or do it yourself, the protection that a really good filter provides is darn well worth it, IMHO.
As far as the level of difficulty in fabricating the spacer, it actually didn't take me but an hour and an half. Granted, I have a metal-cutting band saw and a drill press, but you could do essentially the same work using a jig saw with a metal-cutting blade and a handheld power drill with not much greater investment of time.
In the end, I'm not pressing anyone to do the
same thing that I did. I merely put the idea out there for anyone who might be interested. Sooner or later, folks' stock filter could deteriorate and need replacement (my stock filter had holes in the filter material), and the supply of NOS filters will eventually become depleted. I suspect that folks will need some options. This happens to be one.
Richard
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
,
"Bill" wrote:
> Chas;
Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less.
Another
> suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and > wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch > cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> Bill
> _____
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]
On Behalf Of Chas
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> While I appreciate the work
involved and the desire to create this, it would
> just seem so much
easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> like the
original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter > in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to ensure > that they did not tip or twist.
> Chas
> ---
In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman"
wrote:
> > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine
that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> personally not be inclined
to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> somewhat porous material,
can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> how big of an issue this
would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> something like oak
would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> the wood after
cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > One reason why
I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me to
> tweak the
thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that should > only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8 > inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the K&N > filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original > Honda 600 filter.
Richard
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, J Graf wrote:
> > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block
of material the same thickness as
> your spacer work, or is there an issue
of air flow through your design that
> has benefit? I'm thinking of simply
cutting a piece of wood .
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- -
> > > John Graf
> > > Paragrafs.com
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman"

> wrote:
> > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
"richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter > element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > Richard

richmccolman · Post by **richmccolman** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:59 am

Thanks for your comments, Bill. Much appreciated.
Yep, I've wondered from time to time about the airflow restriction imposed by that skinny little air horn on the stock air cleaner box. (You'd think it should be at least as large as the opening into the carb!) One thing that I do like about the stock cleaner box is the pre-heat option for colder weather. I realize that the southern Cal folks don't need to worry about that so much, but here in NC it can get pretty chilly in the winter, and I like having the intake air heated a bit before being shoved through the carb and into the engine.
Your idea about adapting a stock filter element with a foam wrap sounds intriguing -- I'd be interested to see where that idea leads. I was wondering about removing the paper and going with a foam wrap only, though. For instance, on my riding mower, a foam wrap -- oil impregnated -- is used, but that's considered just a pre-filter. It's wrapped around a standard filter element containing paper filter material. I wonder whether a thin foam wrap alone would provide adequate filtration.
However, one thought I have is whether it would be possible to take a block of foam, cut it to the dimensions of the inside of the stock filter element, oil it and insert it into the stock element frame. (An entire 4 x 4 x 7 block of filter foam would provide some pretty decent filtration, I would think -- a good bit more than a thin foam wrap of the type on my lawn mower filter. Of course, you'd need to fabricate a retainer to keep the foam block from getting sucked out of the stock filter element frame and into the carb throat! Just another idea to add to the mix...
Thanks again - Richard

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Bill" wrote:
> Richard;
> First, e-mail does not express the understanding, pat on the back or give
> the hand shake we all give each other when feelings are mutual. We have
> this forum to give our opinion on a topic to bring out an agreement or
> disagreement to further the better good.
> Please don't stop sharing your ideas and suggestions on making things better
> for these cars.
> We all know the advantages of the K&N filters, and there are other filters
> out there that will do the same. Driven daily an original filter has a 6
> month life time depending on the area its driven in. There are also ways of
> extending the life of a air filter if done correctly. We can also remove
> the air box and attach a filter directly onto the carb. Losing the
> restrictive properties of the small air horn connected to the air box.
> Punch a hole into the side of the filter and run the return bypass hose to
> it and your much better off.
> But then we lose the esthetics of the original air box look. That original
> look we all like.
> I for one like the original look, I don't drive my Honda 600 cars enough to
> feel the 40 + mpg as they are used to promote the original look and feel of
> the Honda 600. Not to mention the fuel we are forced to put into our tanks,
> it's a wonder we get 30 mpg.
> So, we appreciate your work to make these cars keep running. There are no
> bad ideas, just the ones never tried. I like to think of WD40, they had 39
> times that proved they hadn't found what they were looking for.
> Bill
> _____
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of richmccolman
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 4:21 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600
> and K&N filter
> Bear in mind that the $70 price for the K&N filter that Bill mentions is a
> list price. Amazon has them for $42.99 each. The other point I'd like to
> make is that the K&N is a lifetime filter -- you clean it and then re-oil it
> over and over again. You should never need to buy another. And K&N filters
> come highly regarded, as I understand it, for filtering capability along
> with providing maximum air flow. You will need oil and cleaning solution
> too, but that stuff will last and last and last.
> How much do the original NOS air filters for the 600 cars cost -- when you
> can get them? One seller has them listed for $55 each. I'm sure that that's
> a fair price, given the scarcity of them, but if you use that as a point of
> comparison, $42.99 is quite good for lifetime filter, and $70 (only $15
> additional compared with the K&N list price) isn't bad, I think. If you
> figure that a rebuilt engine is going to run you hundreds to thousands of
> $$$, depending upon the level of work and replacement needed and depending
> upon whether you hire someone to do it or do it yourself, the protection
> that a really good filter provides is darn well worth it, IMHO.
> As far as the level of difficulty in fabricating the spacer, it actually
> didn't take me but an hour and an half. Granted, I have a metal-cutting band
> saw and a drill press, but you could do essentially the same work using a
> jig saw with a metal-cutting blade and a handheld power drill with not much
> greater investment of time.
> In the end, I'm not pressing anyone to do the same thing that I did. I
> merely put the idea out there for anyone who might be interested. Sooner or
> later, folks' stock filter could deteriorate and need replacement (my stock
> filter had holes in the filter material), and the supply of NOS filters will
> eventually become depleted. I suspect that folks will need some options.
> This happens to be one.
> Richard
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , "Bill" wrote:
> > Chas;
> > Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
> > amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
> > swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another
> > suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and
> > wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch
> > cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> > Bill
> > _____
> > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of Chas
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> > While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it
> would
> > just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> > like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter
> > in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
> > depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to
> ensure
> > that they did not tip or twist.
> > Chas
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > , "richmccolman"
> > wrote:
> > > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> > personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> > somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> > how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> > something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> > the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > > One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me
> to
> > tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that
> should
> > only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8
> > inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
> > appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the
> K&N
> > filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original
> > Honda 600 filter.
> > > Richard
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > , J Graf wrote:
> > > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness
> as
> > your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design
> that
> > has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > John Graf
> > > > Paragrafs.com
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
>
> > , "richmccolman"
>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
> > "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
> > filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter
> > element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > > Richard

richmccolman · Post by **richmccolman** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:53 am

On second thought, I don't believe that stuffing a block of foam into the stock air filter element frame is a good idea. What if you have a backfire? It'll likely melt and burn part of the foam. Also, the foam placed that close to the carb throat may have a detrimental effect on the airflow pattern at the carb throat. (There's a reason why air filter elements have an empty cavity inside.)
I wonder how thick of a layer of foam could be wrapped around the stock filter element frame once the paper is removed. Hopefully something a good bit thicker than the foam wrapped around my lawn mower's air filter. If so, perhaps that might be a good solution, as Bill suggests.
Richard

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> Thanks for your comments, Bill. Much appreciated.
> Yep, I've wondered from time to time about the airflow restriction imposed by that skinny little air horn on the stock air cleaner box. (You'd think it should be at least as large as the opening into the carb!) One thing that I do like about the stock cleaner box is the pre-heat option for colder weather. I realize that the southern Cal folks don't need to worry about that so much, but here in NC it can get pretty chilly in the winter, and I like having the intake air heated a bit before being shoved through the carb and into the engine.
> Your idea about adapting a stock filter element with a foam wrap sounds intriguing -- I'd be interested to see where that idea leads. I was wondering about removing the paper and going with a foam wrap only, though. For instance, on my riding mower, a foam wrap -- oil impregnated -- is used, but that's considered just a pre-filter. It's wrapped around a standard filter element containing paper filter material. I wonder whether a thin foam wrap alone would provide adequate filtration.
> However, one thought I have is whether it would be possible to take a block of foam, cut it to the dimensions of the inside of the stock filter element, oil it and insert it into the stock element frame. (An entire 4 x 4 x 7 block of filter foam would provide some pretty decent filtration, I would think -- a good bit more than a thin foam wrap of the type on my lawn mower filter. Of course, you'd need to fabricate a retainer to keep the foam block from getting sucked out of the stock filter element frame and into the carb throat! Just another idea to add to the mix...
> Thanks again - Richard
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Bill" wrote:
> > Richard;
> > First, e-mail does not express the understanding, pat on the back or give
> > the hand shake we all give each other when feelings are mutual. We have
> > this forum to give our opinion on a topic to bring out an agreement or
> > disagreement to further the better good.
> > Please don't stop sharing your ideas and suggestions on making things better
> > for these cars.
> > We all know the advantages of the K&N filters, and there are other filters
> > out there that will do the same. Driven daily an original filter has a 6
> > month life time depending on the area its driven in. There are also ways of
> > extending the life of a air filter if done correctly. We can also remove
> > the air box and attach a filter directly onto the carb. Losing the
> > restrictive properties of the small air horn connected to the air box.
> > Punch a hole into the side of the filter and run the return bypass hose to
> > it and your much better off.
> > But then we lose the esthetics of the original air box look. That original
> > look we all like.
> > I for one like the original look, I don't drive my Honda 600 cars enough to
> > feel the 40 + mpg as they are used to promote the original look and feel of
> > the Honda 600. Not to mention the fuel we are forced to put into our tanks,
> > it's a wonder we get 30 mpg.
> > So, we appreciate your work to make these cars keep running. There are no
> > bad ideas, just the ones never tried. I like to think of WD40, they had 39
> > times that proved they hadn't found what they were looking for.
> > Bill
> > _____
> > From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of richmccolman
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 4:21 PM
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600
> > and K&N filter
> > Bear in mind that the $70 price for the K&N filter that Bill mentions is a
> > list price. Amazon has them for $42.99 each. The other point I'd like to
> > make is that the K&N is a lifetime filter -- you clean it and then re-oil it
> > over and over again. You should never need to buy another. And K&N filters
> > come highly regarded, as I understand it, for filtering capability along
> > with providing maximum air flow. You will need oil and cleaning solution
> > too, but that stuff will last and last and last.
> > How much do the original NOS air filters for the 600 cars cost -- when you
> > can get them? One seller has them listed for $55 each. I'm sure that that's
> > a fair price, given the scarcity of them, but if you use that as a point of
> > comparison, $42.99 is quite good for lifetime filter, and $70 (only $15
> > additional compared with the K&N list price) isn't bad, I think. If you
> > figure that a rebuilt engine is going to run you hundreds to thousands of
> > $$$, depending upon the level of work and replacement needed and depending
> > upon whether you hire someone to do it or do it yourself, the protection
> > that a really good filter provides is darn well worth it, IMHO.
> > As far as the level of difficulty in fabricating the spacer, it actually
> > didn't take me but an hour and an half. Granted, I have a metal-cutting band
> > saw and a drill press, but you could do essentially the same work using a
> > jig saw with a metal-cutting blade and a handheld power drill with not much
> > greater investment of time.
> > In the end, I'm not pressing anyone to do the same thing that I did. I
> > merely put the idea out there for anyone who might be interested. Sooner or
> > later, folks' stock filter could deteriorate and need replacement (my stock
> > filter had holes in the filter material), and the supply of NOS filters will
> > eventually become depleted. I suspect that folks will need some options.
> > This happens to be one.
> > Richard
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > , "Bill" wrote:
> > > Chas;
> > > Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
> > > amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
> > > swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another
> > > suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and
> > > wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch
> > > cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> > > Bill
> > > _____
> > > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > ] On Behalf Of Chas
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> > > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> > > While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it
> > would
> > > just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> > > like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter
> > > in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
> > > depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to
> > ensure
> > > that they did not tip or twist.
> > > Chas
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > , "richmccolman"
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> > > personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> > > somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> > > how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> > > something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> > > the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > > > One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me
> > to
> > > tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that
> > should
> > > only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8
> > > inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
> > > appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the
> > K&N
> > > filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original
> > > Honda 600 filter.
> > > > Richard
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > , J Graf wrote:
> > > > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness
> > as
> > > your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design
> > that
> > > has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > > John Graf
> > > > > Paragrafs.com
> > > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > , "richmccolman"
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
> > > "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
> > > filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter
> > > element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > > > Richard

Bob Bondiett · Post by **Bob Bondiett** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:07 pm

Frankly- I put a dirt bike foam air filter in my air box years ago. It cleans up w/ a detergent solution nicely, it is designed to work in an automotive type environment and fits real nicely over the carb opening. I figured if it can protect my 510 cc KTM dirt bike engine it would be just fine in that little 600. It has stood the test in my mind. Just my opinion of course!

> From:
> richmccolman
>
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Thursday, June 6, 2013 8:53 AM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> On second thought, I don't believe that stuffing a block of foam into the stock air filter element frame is a good idea. What if you have a backfire? It'll likely melt and burn part of the foam. Also, the foam placed that close to the carb throat may have a detrimental effect on the airflow pattern at the carb throat. (There's a reason why air filter elements have an empty cavity inside.)
> I wonder how thick of a layer of foam could be wrapped around the stock filter element frame once the paper is removed. Hopefully something a good bit thicker than the foam wrapped around my lawn mower's air filter. If so, perhaps that might be a good solution, as Bill suggests.
> Richard
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , "richmccolman" wrote:
> > Thanks for your comments, Bill. Much appreciated.
> > Yep, I've wondered from time to time about the airflow restriction imposed by that skinny little air horn on the stock air cleaner box. (You'd think it should be at least as large as the opening into the carb!) One thing that I do like about the stock cleaner box is the pre-heat option for colder weather. I realize that the southern Cal folks don't need to worry about that so much, but here in NC it can get pretty chilly in the winter, and I like having the intake air heated a bit before being shoved through the carb and into the engine.
> > Your idea about adapting a stock filter element with a foam wrap sounds intriguing -- I'd be interested to see where that idea leads. I was wondering about removing the paper and going with a foam wrap only, though. For instance, on my riding mower, a foam wrap -- oil impregnated -- is used, but that's considered just a pre-filter. It's wrapped around a standard filter element containing paper filter material. I wonder whether a thin foam wrap alone would provide adequate filtration.
> > However, one thought I have is whether it would be possible to take a block of foam, cut it to the dimensions of the inside of the stock filter element, oil it and insert it into the stock element frame. (An entire 4 x 4 x 7 block of filter foam would provide some pretty decent filtration, I would think -- a good bit more than a thin foam wrap of the type on my lawn mower filter. Of course, you'd need to fabricate a retainer to keep the foam block from getting sucked out of the stock filter element frame and into the carb throat! Just another idea to add to the mix...
> > Thanks again - Richard
> > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , "Bill" wrote:
> > > Richard;
> > > First, e-mail does not express the understanding, pat on the back or give
> > > the hand shake we all give each other when feelings are mutual. We have
> > > this forum to give our opinion on a topic to bring out an agreement or
> > > disagreement to further the better good.
> > > Please don't stop sharing your ideas and suggestions on making things better
> > > for these cars.
> > > We all know the advantages of the K&N filters, and there are other filters
> > > out there that will do the same. Driven daily an original filter has a 6
> > > month life time depending on the area its driven in. There are also ways of
> > > extending the life of a air filter if done correctly. We can also remove
> > > the air box and attach a filter directly onto the carb. Losing the
> > > restrictive properties of the small air horn connected to the air box.
> > > Punch a hole into the side of the filter and run the return bypass hose to
> > > it and your much better off.
> > > But then we lose the esthetics of the original air box look. That original
> > > look we all like.
> > > I for one like the original look, I don't drive my Honda 600 cars enough to
> > > feel the 40 + mpg as they are used to promote the original look and feel of
> > > the Honda 600. Not to mention the fuel we are forced to put into our tanks,
> > > it's a wonder we get 30 mpg.
> > > So, we appreciate your work to make these cars keep running. There are no
> > > bad ideas, just the ones never tried. I like to think of WD40, they had 39
> > > times that proved they hadn't found what they were looking for.
> > > Bill
> > > _____
> > > From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of richmccolman
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 4:21 PM
> > > To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600
> > > and K&N filter
> > > Bear in mind that the $70 price for the K&N filter that Bill mentions is a
> > > list price. Amazon has them for $42.99 each. The other point I'd like to
> > > make is that the K&N is a lifetime filter -- you clean it and then re-oil it
> > > over and over again. You should never need to buy another. And K&N filters
> > > come highly regarded, as I understand it, for filtering capability along
> > > with providing maximum air flow. You will need oil and cleaning solution
> > > too, but that stuff will last and last and last.
> > > How much do the original NOS air filters for the 600 cars cost -- when you
> > > can get them? One seller has them listed for $55 each. I'm sure that that's
> > > a fair price, given the scarcity of them, but if you use that as a point of
> > > comparison, $42.99 is quite good for lifetime filter, and $70 (only $15
> > > additional compared with the K&N list price) isn't bad, I think. If you
> > > figure that a rebuilt engine is going to run you hundreds to thousands of
> > > $$$, depending upon the level of work and replacement needed and depending
> > > upon whether you hire someone to do it or do it yourself, the protection
> > > that a really good filter provides is darn well worth it, IMHO.
> > > As far as the level of difficulty in fabricating the spacer, it actually
> > > didn't take me but an hour and an half. Granted, I have a metal-cutting band
> > > saw and a drill press, but you could do essentially the same work using a
> > > jig saw with a metal-cutting blade and a handheld power drill with not much
> > > greater investment of time.
> > > In the end, I'm not pressing anyone to do the same thing that I did. I
> > > merely put the idea out there for anyone who might be interested. Sooner or
> > > later, folks' stock filter could deteriorate and need replacement (my stock
> > > filter had holes in the filter material), and the supply of NOS filters will
> > > eventually become depleted. I suspect that folks will need some options.
> > > This happens to be one.
> > > Richard
> > > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > , "Bill" wrote:
> > > > Chas;
> > > > Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
> > > > amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
> > > > swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another
> > > > suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and
> > > > wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch
> > > > cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> > > > Bill
> > > > _____
> > > > From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > [mailto:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > > ] On Behalf Of Chas
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> > > > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> > > > While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it
> > > would
> > > > just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> > > > like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter
> > > > in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
> > > > depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to
> > > ensure
> > > > that they did not tip or twist.
> > > > Chas
> > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > , "richmccolman"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> > > > personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> > > > somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> > > > how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> > > > something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> > > > the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > > > > One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me
> > > to
> > > > tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that
> > > should
> > > > only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8
> > > > inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
> > > > appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the
> > > K&N
> > > > filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original
> > > > Honda 600 filter.
> > > > > Richard
> > > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > , J Graf wrote:
> > > > > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness
> > > as
> > > > your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design
> > > that
> > > > has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > > > John Graf
> > > > > > Paragrafs.com
> > > > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > , "richmccolman"
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
> > > > "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
> > > > filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter
> > > > element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > > > > Richard

richmccolman · Post by **richmccolman** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:25 pm

A little searching online revealed this product that should allow the user to do what Bill suggested (remove the paper from the stock Honda air filter element and wrap the filter frame with foam):
https://www.denniskirk.com/305375.sku?u ... Ogod0hEAsQ
The instructions say that you can use silicone adhesive or Pliobond to glue sections of the foam together. The idea would be to make a continuous ring or loop of foam that you can pull over the filter element frame in place of the paper material. The ring of foam you'd end up with would need to be about 3-1/2 inches wide by about 23 inches long, I'm guessing. (We'd have to experiment to get the optimum dimensions for a nice snug fit.) You would have to impregnate the foam with special filter oil to achieve good filtration.
My initial reaction to Bill's idea was that, if the foam loop were thin like the ~1/8-inch thick foam pre-filter that slips over the paper filter element of some lawnmowers (like my riding mower), then the foam might not be thick enough to provide good filtration by itself. However, this stuff is 3/8 inch thick, so that likely addresses my initial concern. I may buy one of two of these sheets of foam and try cobbling together a foam loop to go over the frame of my old Honda filter element and see how this works out. I'll report results to the group.
I'm not inclined to abandon my K&N filter, but if this foam idea works out it could provide a cheaper way for some folks to have a good air filter setup for their stock air cleaners on a poor man's budget, and stop having to limp by with old Honda filter elements, or scramble to locate NOS filters out of an ever-dwindling supply.
Richard

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Bill" wrote:
> Chas;
> Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
> amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
> swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another
> suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and
> wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch
> cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> Bill
> _____
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of Chas
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it would
> just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter
> in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
> depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to ensure
> that they did not tip or twist.
> Chas
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "richmccolman"
> wrote:
> > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me to
> tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that should
> only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8
> inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
> appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the K&N
> filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original
> Honda 600 filter.
> > Richard
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , J Graf wrote:
> > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness as
> your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design that
> has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > John Graf
> > > Paragrafs.com
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "richmccolman"
> wrote:
> > > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
> "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
> filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter
> element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > Richard

richmccolman · Post by **richmccolman** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:18 pm

After tearing the paper off of a stock Honda filter element, it looks like the 5/8 inch thick filter foam will work nicely, so I ordered some to test it all out. I'll report back to the group once I've tried wrapping the foam around filter frame.
Richard

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> A little searching online revealed this product that should allow the user to do what Bill suggested (remove the paper from the stock Honda air filter element and wrap the filter frame with foam):
https://www.denniskirk.com/305375.sku?u ... Ogod0hEAsQ
> The instructions say that you can use silicone adhesive or Pliobond to glue sections of the foam together. The idea would be to make a continuous ring or loop of foam that you can pull over the filter element frame in place of the paper material. The ring of foam you'd end up with would need to be about 3-1/2 inches wide by about 23 inches long, I'm guessing. (We'd have to experiment to get the optimum dimensions for a nice snug fit.) You would have to impregnate the foam with special filter oil to achieve good filtration.
> My initial reaction to Bill's idea was that, if the foam loop were thin like the ~1/8-inch thick foam pre-filter that slips over the paper filter element of some lawnmowers (like my riding mower), then the foam might not be thick enough to provide good filtration by itself. However, this stuff is 3/8 inch thick, so that likely addresses my initial concern. I may buy one of two of these sheets of foam and try cobbling together a foam loop to go over the frame of my old Honda filter element and see how this works out. I'll report results to the group.
> I'm not inclined to abandon my K&N filter, but if this foam idea works out it could provide a cheaper way for some folks to have a good air filter setup for their stock air cleaners on a poor man's budget, and stop having to limp by with old Honda filter elements, or scramble to locate NOS filters out of an ever-dwindling supply.
> Richard
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Bill" wrote:
> > Chas;
> > Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
> > amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
> > swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another
> > suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and
> > wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch
> > cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> > Bill
> > _____
> > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of Chas
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> > While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it would
> > just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> > like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter
> > in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
> > depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to ensure
> > that they did not tip or twist.
> > Chas
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > , "richmccolman"
> > wrote:
> > > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> > personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> > somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> > how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> > something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> > the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > > One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me to
> > tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that should
> > only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8
> > inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
> > appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the K&N
> > filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original
> > Honda 600 filter.
> > > Richard
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > , J Graf wrote:
> > > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness as
> > your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design that
> > has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > John Graf
> > > > Paragrafs.com
> > > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > , "richmccolman"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
> > "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
> > filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter
> > element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > > Richard