Re: oil leak

[zinc2u]

Are you getting a leak at the oil cap (top of engine)? Do you think you did
something wrong which led to the leak? Or do you think something failed and
is causing the leak?
If it is not at the oil cap, it sounds like it is at the rear of the engine
and it is getting "tossed around" by the fan. Common places where oil leaks
develop with age on the Honda 600 are:
1) at the mating surface between the cylinder head and camshaft housing.
This is due to gasket failure or bolt torque not being correct
2) at the mating surface between the cylinder head and the cylinder barrel.
Due to gasket failure or incorrect bolt torque.
3) at the mating surface between the cylinder barrel and the lower
crankcase. Due to gasket failure, incorrect bolt torque, or o-ring failure (early
AN600 only).
4) Oil seal failure in the distributor housing (the oil seal on the
camshaft)
5) I have also seen minor leaks at the reverse cover and primary drive
cover.
6) If your differential bearings start to fail, you will get a leak at the
differential oil seals (where the drive shafts go into the crankcase).
I don't recall ever seeing leaks from the oil seals on the crankshaft or
primary drive. I have seen the oil seal on the Z-600 tachometer housing fail
(on the left side of engine).
I once had a pinhole leak which developed in the crankcase next to the cam
chain tensioner. I had cleaned my engine and removed all the grime which
uncovered the pinhole leak. I did not find its location until after I removed
the fan housing at the rear of the engine.
good luck,
Dale
It appears I've developed a new problem.
I did an oil change over the weekend and it appears that I've developed a
major oil leak.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com

[Kevin Lister]

I believe some oil is coming out of the oil filler cap. There is oil all over the top of the engine and down the sides.
There's a lot on the steering boot and on the rear of the engine.
It seems to coming from everywhere but the bottom of the engine.
I'm wondering if it is because of the type of oil I used.
Miles told me to use 20W50, but the guy at the autoparts store, who seemed extremely knowlegeable about oil and engines, convinced me to buy a synthetic 15W50.
I exchanged 1/2 quart of oil for Slick50. Is it possible this is just due to the lighter oil? This all started after I changed the oil. I haven't touched anything else on the engine except the exhaust.
I'm thinking about draining the oil and putting the 20W50 into like Miles originally recommended.
kev
kev
goinhm@... wrote:
Are you getting a leak at the oil cap (top of engine)? Do you think you did
something wrong which led to the leak? Or do you think something failed and
is causing the leak?
If it is not at the oil cap, it sounds like it is at the rear of the engine
and it is getting "tossed around" by the fan. Common places where oil leaks
develop with age on the Honda 600 are:
1) at the mating surface between the cylinder head and camshaft housing.
This is due to gasket failure or bolt torque not being correct
2) at the mating surface between the cylinder head and the cylinder barrel.
Due to gasket failure or incorrect bolt torque.
3) at the mating surface between the cylinder barrel and the lower
crankcase. Due to gasket failure, incorrect bolt torque, or o-ring failure (early
AN600 only).
4) Oil seal failure in the distributor housing (the oil seal on the
camshaft)
5) I have also seen minor leaks at the reverse cover and primary drive
cover.
6) If your differential bearings start to fail, you will get a leak at the
differential oil seals (where the drive shafts go into the crankcase).
I don't recall ever seeing leaks from the oil seals on the crankshaft or
primary drive. I have seen the oil seal on the Z-600 tachometer housing fail
(on the left side of engine).
I once had a pinhole leak which developed in the crankcase next to the cam
chain tensioner. I had cleaned my engine and removed all the grime which
uncovered the pinhole leak. I did not find its location until after I removed
the fan housing at the rear of the engine.
good luck,
Dale
It appears I've developed a new problem.
I did an oil change over the weekend and it appears that I've developed a
major oil leak.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[D D]

I suspect others will chime in with 600 synthetic oil
experience, but I can tell you that years ago I put
castrol full synthetic in my 83 & it immeaditely
developed a river of a crankshaft seal leak. It
lessened after I changed my oil but it never seemed to
go away completely & Id bet Its the same kind of thing
with your 600. The synthetic seems just too slick for
the design of the older Honda engines, especially
after many tens of thousands of miles. I did however
treat my 77 CVCC Civic & 83 with Duralube every 50,000
after they already had over 100,000 miles & they both
seemed smoother with no detectable adverse effects &
Id bet the same would be true on a 600 but Id love to
hear some other opinions on this. David Berg!
--- 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> I believe some oil is coming out of the oil filler

cap. There is oil all over the top of the engine and
down the sides.

> There's a lot on the steering boot and on the rear of the engine.
> It seems to coming from everywhere but the bottom of the engine.
> I'm wondering if it is because of the type of oil I used.
> Miles told me to use 20W50, but the guy at the

autoparts store, who seemed extremely knowlegeable
about oil and engines, convinced me to buy a synthetic
15W50.

> I exchanged 1/2 quart of oil for Slick50. Is it

possible this is just due to the lighter oil? This all
started after I changed the oil. I haven't touched
anything else on the engine except the exhaust.

> I'm thinking about draining the oil and putting

the 20W50 into like Miles originally recommended.

> kev
> kev
goinhm@...
wrote:
> Are you getting a leak at the oil cap (top of

engine)? Do you think you did

> something wrong which led to the leak? Or do you

think something failed and

> is causing the leak?
> If it is not at the oil cap, it sounds like it is at

the rear of the engine

> and it is getting "tossed around" by the fan. Common

places where oil leaks

> develop with age on the Honda 600 are:
> 1) at the mating surface between the cylinder head

and camshaft housing.

> This is due to gasket failure or bolt torque not being correct
> 2) at the mating surface between the cylinder head

and the cylinder barrel.

> Due to gasket failure or incorrect bolt torque.
> 3) at the mating surface between the cylinder barrel and the lower
> crankcase. Due to gasket failure, incorrect bolt

torque, or o-ring failure (early

> AN600 only).
> 4) Oil seal failure in the distributor housing (the oil seal on the
> camshaft)
> 5) I have also seen minor leaks at the reverse cover and primary drive
> cover.
> 6) If your differential bearings start to fail, you

will get a leak at the

> differential oil seals (where the drive shafts go into the crankcase).
> I don't recall ever seeing leaks from the oil seals on the crankshaft or
> primary drive. I have seen the oil seal on the Z-600

tachometer housing fail

> (on the left side of engine).
> I once had a pinhole leak which developed in the

crankcase next to the cam

> chain tensioner. I had cleaned my engine and removed all the grime which
> uncovered the pinhole leak. I did not find its

location until after I removed

> the fan housing at the rear of the engine.
> good luck,
> Dale
> It appears I've developed a new problem.
> I did an oil change over the weekend and it appears

that I've developed a

> major oil leak.
> ************************************** See what's

free at http://www.aol.com

> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

[zinc2u]

Viscosity is viscosity. 20W50 behaves as 20 weight at 32 degrees F and
behaves as a 50 weight oil at 200 degrees F. It doesn't matter whether it is
synthetic or petroleum. So why is synthetic better than petroleum? Here are
a few reasons:
1) with synthetic, all oil molecules can be made identically. With
petroleum, the oil is a blend of molecules of different chain lengths. So, a 30
weight petroleum oil contains long and short chains of molecules which
average out to 30 weight. The longer a molecule chain, the weaker it will be to
shear forces (such as those at the cam shaft lobes).
2) synthetic oils are far superior at low temperatures and can withstand
higher temperatures. I heard a presentation which claimed synthetic oils were
developed by the Nazis in WWII to solve the problem of the oil in their
equipment (tanks, trucks) caking up during the Russian winter when Germany
attacked Russia. Synthetic oils have been the lubricant of choice for years in
Alaska.
3) synthetic oils have lower friction. I once saw a demo where a 1967 Ford
Mustang was running at idle and the idle rpm was measured. Then the oil was
drained and replaced with synthetic oil. The idlerpms incresed. Wow, I
tried it with my Honda Z600. My idle rpm stayed the same. Why? The Mustang
has a bushing-style bearing on its crankshaft while the Honda uses a needle
bearing design. The needle bearing design is so much more efficient and one
of the reasons for using a needle bearing design is to minimize damage if the
bearing is starved of oil for short durations. The bushing-style bearing
must have oil and its design suffers if it is starved of oil.
I suspect the culprit in your case may not be the oil as much as the oil
additives. Some contaminant which was stuck in the engine casing may have
become freed and found its way to an oil seal where it did some damage. Or the
additive may have caused an oil seal to swell. Or maybe you just need to
replace the gasket under your oil cap. Have you tried cleaning off the engine and
trying to locate where the oil leak is originating?
Honda never recommended using a viscosity above 40 or less than 10 for the
600 series. If you are needing the low numbers of less than 10, then you
must be in a cold weather climate and synthetic oils would be a better choice.
If you are using above 40 weight, you are introducing more drag which
affects fuel economy. I have used 10W40 petroleum oil in my Honda cars without
incident. One time I used Amsoil synthetic oil. One of its claims was not
needing to change the oil for 20,000 miles. At the time, petroleum oil was 50
cents a quart and Amsoil was $5 a quart. I gave up the use of Amsoil at 10,000
miles.....I was doing an oil analysis on samples of the oil and it was
becoming too contaminated with iron, heavy metals, and impurities. I don't
think the synthetic oil was causing the problem. I think it was a combination of
the crankcase breathing system letting dusty air into engine which was
contaminating the oil over time and the crankshaft bearings were already starting
to fail and I was seeing the early indicators showing up in my oil about
10,000 miles before I could hear it. In the end, I decided the best way to keep
the Honda 600 healthy was with frequent oil changes rather than trying to
get long life out of an expensive lubricant.
Dale
I'm wondering if it is because of the type of oil I used.
Miles told me to use 20W50, but the guy at the autoparts store, who seemed
extremely knowlegeable about oil and engines, convinced me to buy a synthetic
15W50.
I exchanged 1/2 quart of oil for Slick50. Is it possible this is just due to
the lighter oil? This all started after I changed the oil. I haven't touched
anything else on the engine except the exhaust.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com

[friend]

To answer a few of the latest questions...
Synthetic allows longer periods between changes. I change every 3K and use
10W30 in the cold months and 20W50 in the warmer months. If your engine
leaked after you changed oil, look at the amount you put in. (check the dip
stick) Depending on the amount you took out, roughly 3 quarts, then fill to
the mark on your dipstick. Gravity effects oil too, so if the oil cap is
lose then there is your problem because it all eventually hits the floor.
If you did more that just change the oil, (like tightening bolts here and
there), well you get the picture. If not, then go to the oil fill cap.
Trouble shooting is a fine art, it normally revolves around what you did
last. I know I always start there and normally find that I caused the
problem.
Fuel has been a real question over the years. I achieve roughly 38 MPG over
the average. Getting better mileage in town if not during peak traffic
hours. Driving at freeway speeds keeps my foot on the peddle all the time
(and my hand on the horn). I have an oil cooler on my sedan and have found
that having an oil cooler has helped to keep my oil cleaner, and using a
remote filter gives me the advantage of a better filtering system than was
originally offered on the Honda 600.
Some one was talking about tune up's, plugs are a good start, just remember
to use a good thread antiseaz compound to keep your threads in good shape.
Change the points and condenser, and note the way the blue wire insulation
is looking. It tends to shrink right where it bolts up to the points and
can cause a short if bare wire is exposed. Often missed is the breaker
plate and the advancer assembly. The breaker plate can become lose over the
years and not allow the points to maintain their gap. And, the advancer
assembly can become tight with crud and not open right. Also, when you
tighten the end bolt on the end of the cam use a drop of red lock tight.
timing can be set without the engine running. I often use a tach (run a
paper clip under the plastic cover where the blue wire connects to the coil.
Then just clip your tach/dwell meter positive to the blue wire and black to
ground. Then divide like you did with the 8 band 4 cylinder engines. This
way you can check the idle speed on Sedans and check the tach on a Coupe.
If your vacuum is low then you may have your timing retarded, if the timing
is in the right spot, check compression as you may have ring problems. But
if the needle on the indicator drifts between 14 and 16 in. look for spark
plug gap not set right and if the plugs are good, the there may be
Carburetor adjustments are needed. A leak in the intake manifold will be
really low readings, maybe 5 or 6 inches.
Now if your still having problems, and the plugs look good, go to the plug
wire connections, and check the engine ground wires. Some people change
them and run that negative cable from the battery to the engine, it needs to
be attached to the frame also. Original connection point was at the coil
mount. This is very important.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of goinhm@...
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 6:50 PM
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] oil leak
Viscosity is viscosity. 20W50 behaves as 20 weight at 32 degrees F and
behaves as a 50 weight oil at 200 degrees F. It doesn't matter whether it
is
synthetic or petroleum. So why is synthetic better than petroleum? Here
are
a few reasons:
1) with synthetic, all oil molecules can be made identically. With
petroleum, the oil is a blend of molecules of different chain lengths. So,
a 30
weight petroleum oil contains long and short chains of molecules which
average out to 30 weight. The longer a molecule chain, the weaker it will
be to
shear forces (such as those at the cam shaft lobes).
2) synthetic oils are far superior at low temperatures and can withstand
higher temperatures. I heard a presentation which claimed synthetic oils
were
developed by the Nazis in WWII to solve the problem of the oil in their
equipment (tanks, trucks) caking up during the Russian winter when Germany
attacked Russia. Synthetic oils have been the lubricant of choice for
years in
Alaska.
3) synthetic oils have lower friction. I once saw a demo where a 1967 Ford
Mustang was running at idle and the idle rpm was measured. Then the oil
was
drained and replaced with synthetic oil. The idlerpms incresed. Wow, I
tried it with my Honda Z600. My idle rpm stayed the same. Why? The Mustang
has a bushing-style bearing on its crankshaft while the Honda uses a
needle
bearing design. The needle bearing design is so much more efficient and
one
of the reasons for using a needle bearing design is to minimize damage if
the
bearing is starved of oil for short durations. The bushing-style bearing
must have oil and its design suffers if it is starved of oil.
I suspect the culprit in your case may not be the oil as much as the oil
additives. Some contaminant which was stuck in the engine casing may have
become freed and found its way to an oil seal where it did some damage. Or
the
additive may have caused an oil seal to swell. Or maybe you just need to
replace the gasket under your oil cap. Have you tried cleaning off the
engine and
trying to locate where the oil leak is originating?
Honda never recommended using a viscosity above 40 or less than 10 for the
600 series. If you are needing the low numbers of less than 10, then you
must be in a cold weather climate and synthetic oils would be a better
choice.
If you are using above 40 weight, you are introducing more drag which
affects fuel economy. I have used 10W40 petroleum oil in my Honda cars
without
incident. One time I used Amsoil synthetic oil. One of its claims was not
needing to change the oil for 20,000 miles. At the time, petroleum oil was
50
cents a quart and Amsoil was $5 a quart. I gave up the use of Amsoil at
10,000
miles.....I was doing an oil analysis on samples of the oil and it was
becoming too contaminated with iron, heavy metals, and impurities. I don't
think the synthetic oil was causing the problem. I think it was a
combination of
the crankcase breathing system letting dusty air into engine which was
contaminating the oil over time and the crankshaft bearings were already
starting
to fail and I was seeing the early indicators showing up in my oil about
10,000 miles before I could hear it. In the end, I decided the best way to
keep
the Honda 600 healthy was with frequent oil changes rather than trying to
get long life out of an expensive lubricant.
Dale
I'm wondering if it is because of the type of oil I used.
Miles told me to use 20W50, but the guy at the autoparts store, who seemed
extremely knowlegeable about oil and engines, convinced me to buy a
synthetic
15W50.
I exchanged 1/2 quart of oil for Slick50. Is it possible this is just due
to
the lighter oil? This all started after I changed the oil. I haven't
touched
anything else on the engine except the exhaust.
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com