Does anyone have a wiring harness diagram? I have an intermittent
short somewhere in the dash that causes me not to be able to start
the car on occasion.
Does anyone know if there there are NOS or aftermarket wire harnesses
available?
Thanks
Tom
Wire Harnesses for AZ600 Coupe
Re: Wire Harnesses for AZ600 Coupe
Hi Tom,
I hope you do not have a short in your wiring harness in the starting
circuit. That is a portion which handles high currents and you could end up
with a fire. Is it a case where you turn the key and nothing happens? Then
you probably have a problem in the area of the starter solenoid. You don't
really need a wiring diagram but you do need a voltmeter and a friend.
Verify you have 12 volts (or more) at the ignition switch primary (the
largest gauge wire....I think it is red or black. It always has voltage on
it). When you go to the igniton start position you should see the voltage
transfer to the wire on that position. And the voltage should be out at the
starter solenoid.
I've noticed the problems seem to occur in several areas;
1) cable from battery to starter not making good connection
2) the ground cable to engine not making good connection
3) battery negative cable not making good ground connection
4) bad ignition switch
5) bad solenoid
6) the small gauge wire going to the starter solenoid has a dirty connection
where it plugs onto the solenoid.
1,2,and 3 you can prove by turning on the headlights and trying to start the
car. If lights go out, you have a bad connection/cable
4 you can check out with your voltmeter as you go through the positions. I
don't know who sells these switches and when they go bad, there is not much
which can be repaired.
5 you can check by momentarily shorting across the solenoid's starter
connections
(the starter will engage)
6 you can check by using your voltmeter and using a remote starter switch.
If you have a bad solenoid, it is probably because the copper contacts are
dirty. You can take it apart and clean the contacts which are part of the
bolt terminals.
The copper part on the plunger in the solenoid can also be repaired with a
new piece
of copper. I used to use a copper penny to repair this section and had
excellent luck. But it has to be a genuine copper cent which they stopped
making in the early 70's. If you scrape a file along the edge of the penny,
you should see copper and not zinc (the newer ones are a copper plating on
zinc).
Hope you are able to figure out the problem. Prayer may be your answer.
Dale
I hope you do not have a short in your wiring harness in the starting
circuit. That is a portion which handles high currents and you could end up
with a fire. Is it a case where you turn the key and nothing happens? Then
you probably have a problem in the area of the starter solenoid. You don't
really need a wiring diagram but you do need a voltmeter and a friend.
Verify you have 12 volts (or more) at the ignition switch primary (the
largest gauge wire....I think it is red or black. It always has voltage on
it). When you go to the igniton start position you should see the voltage
transfer to the wire on that position. And the voltage should be out at the
starter solenoid.
I've noticed the problems seem to occur in several areas;
1) cable from battery to starter not making good connection
2) the ground cable to engine not making good connection
3) battery negative cable not making good ground connection
4) bad ignition switch
5) bad solenoid
6) the small gauge wire going to the starter solenoid has a dirty connection
where it plugs onto the solenoid.
1,2,and 3 you can prove by turning on the headlights and trying to start the
car. If lights go out, you have a bad connection/cable
4 you can check out with your voltmeter as you go through the positions. I
don't know who sells these switches and when they go bad, there is not much
which can be repaired.
5 you can check by momentarily shorting across the solenoid's starter
connections
(the starter will engage)
6 you can check by using your voltmeter and using a remote starter switch.
If you have a bad solenoid, it is probably because the copper contacts are
dirty. You can take it apart and clean the contacts which are part of the
bolt terminals.
The copper part on the plunger in the solenoid can also be repaired with a
new piece
of copper. I used to use a copper penny to repair this section and had
excellent luck. But it has to be a genuine copper cent which they stopped
making in the early 70's. If you scrape a file along the edge of the penny,
you should see copper and not zinc (the newer ones are a copper plating on
zinc).
Hope you are able to figure out the problem. Prayer may be your answer.
Dale
> Does anyone have a wiring harness diagram? I have an intermittent
> short somewhere in the dash that causes me not to be able to start
> the car on occasion.
> Does anyone know if there there are NOS or aftermarket wire harnesses
> available?
Wire Harnesses for AZ600 Coupe - may be a starter problem
Hi guys,
THanks for your responses. I will look into these items. Here is some
more recent observations (besides the smoke coming out from under the
dash - that only happened once).
I am beginning to rethink this problem. It happens very
intermittently. I have recently discovered that if I push the car
forward and pop the clutch (in first gear), this turns the engine but
it does not start. However, at that point the normal starter works
with no problems. It seems that there may be a short in one of the
starter motor windings (possible) - or - the engine gets into a
position that the starter cannot get it to turn (unlikely). When it
gets into this odd state, I do hear the the solenoid engage (a click
sound when the key is turned) and the starter "tries" to turn but it
seems that there is simply not enough juice to get it to turn all the
way over. It seems that something is draining all the power from the
battery. Then all of a sudden it will start working again.
Has anyone had starter problems like this?
-Tom
THanks for your responses. I will look into these items. Here is some
more recent observations (besides the smoke coming out from under the
dash - that only happened once).
I am beginning to rethink this problem. It happens very
intermittently. I have recently discovered that if I push the car
forward and pop the clutch (in first gear), this turns the engine but
it does not start. However, at that point the normal starter works
with no problems. It seems that there may be a short in one of the
starter motor windings (possible) - or - the engine gets into a
position that the starter cannot get it to turn (unlikely). When it
gets into this odd state, I do hear the the solenoid engage (a click
sound when the key is turned) and the starter "tries" to turn but it
seems that there is simply not enough juice to get it to turn all the
way over. It seems that something is draining all the power from the
battery. Then all of a sudden it will start working again.
Has anyone had starter problems like this?
-Tom
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@a... wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> I hope you do not have a short in your wiring harness in the
starting
> circuit. That is a portion which handles high currents and you
could end up
> with a fire. Is it a case where you turn the key and nothing
happens? Then
> you probably have a problem in the area of the starter solenoid.
You don't
> really need a wiring diagram but you do need a voltmeter and a
friend.
> Verify you have 12 volts (or more) at the ignition switch primary
(the
> largest gauge wire....I think it is red or black. It always has
voltage on
> it). When you go to the igniton start position you should see the
voltage
> transfer to the wire on that position. And the voltage should be
out at the
> starter solenoid.
> I've noticed the problems seem to occur in several areas;
> 1) cable from battery to starter not making good connection
> 2) the ground cable to engine not making good connection
> 3) battery negative cable not making good ground connection
> 4) bad ignition switch
> 5) bad solenoid
> 6) the small gauge wire going to the starter solenoid has a dirty
connection
> where it plugs onto the solenoid.
> 1,2,and 3 you can prove by turning on the headlights and trying to
start the
> car. If lights go out, you have a bad connection/cable
> 4 you can check out with your voltmeter as you go through the
positions. I
> don't know who sells these switches and when they go bad, there is
not much
> which can be repaired.
> 5 you can check by momentarily shorting across the solenoid's
starter
> connections
> (the starter will engage)
> 6 you can check by using your voltmeter and using a remote starter
switch.
> If you have a bad solenoid, it is probably because the copper
contacts are
> dirty. You can take it apart and clean the contacts which are part
of the
> bolt terminals.
> The copper part on the plunger in the solenoid can also be repaired
with a
> new piece
> of copper. I used to use a copper penny to repair this section and
had
> excellent luck. But it has to be a genuine copper cent which they
stopped
> making in the early 70's. If you scrape a file along the edge of
the penny,
> you should see copper and not zinc (the newer ones are a copper
plating on
> zinc).
> Hope you are able to figure out the problem. Prayer may be your
answer.
> Dale
> > Does anyone have a wiring harness diagram? I have an intermittent
> > short somewhere in the dash that causes me not to be able to
start
> > the car on occasion.
> > Does anyone know if there there are NOS or aftermarket wire
harnesses
> > available?
Re: Wire Harnesses for AZ600 Coupe - may be a starter problem
Hi Tom,
The next time you are finding the starter will not properly engage or turn over the engine, pop the hood and try starting the engine through bypassing the starter solenoid. And when you try this, monitor the voltage at the
battery to see how much it sags. Better yet, if you have a
amp meter (the type which clips around the larger battery cable) you can monitor the current draw.
When the contacts inside the solenoid gets dirty, this will increase the resistance and this limits the available current to the starter. And the dirty contacts can be an intermittent problem because some times they will find a clean area during start mode and sometimes they will land on a contaminated spot. But you do need to eliminate if the problem is in the solenoid or the starter or bad cable connection. And if you get smoke under the dash, that is indicating an excessive current or an excessive voltage drop due to a plug/connector in your dash wiring. While the starter motor may use 150 amps or more to start the engine, these currents are never flowing under the dash. Only the starter solenoid current is flowing in your dash wiring and this is only several amps.
One more thing, try measuring the voltage drop at your cable connector. Put one lead of your voltmeter on the center post of the battery and the other on the connector which clamps around the battery post. Have someone start the
engine. If you are measuring more than a few tenths, you have a connection problem. You can also measure the voltage drop across the starter solenoid bolts. This should not be more than a few tenths of a volt (hopefully less).
good luck,
Dale
The next time you are finding the starter will not properly engage or turn over the engine, pop the hood and try starting the engine through bypassing the starter solenoid. And when you try this, monitor the voltage at the
battery to see how much it sags. Better yet, if you have a
amp meter (the type which clips around the larger battery cable) you can monitor the current draw.
When the contacts inside the solenoid gets dirty, this will increase the resistance and this limits the available current to the starter. And the dirty contacts can be an intermittent problem because some times they will find a clean area during start mode and sometimes they will land on a contaminated spot. But you do need to eliminate if the problem is in the solenoid or the starter or bad cable connection. And if you get smoke under the dash, that is indicating an excessive current or an excessive voltage drop due to a plug/connector in your dash wiring. While the starter motor may use 150 amps or more to start the engine, these currents are never flowing under the dash. Only the starter solenoid current is flowing in your dash wiring and this is only several amps.
One more thing, try measuring the voltage drop at your cable connector. Put one lead of your voltmeter on the center post of the battery and the other on the connector which clamps around the battery post. Have someone start the
engine. If you are measuring more than a few tenths, you have a connection problem. You can also measure the voltage drop across the starter solenoid bolts. This should not be more than a few tenths of a volt (hopefully less).
good luck,
Dale
>Hi guys,
>THanks for your responses. I will look into these items. Here is some
>more recent observations (besides the smoke coming out from under the
>dash - that only happened once).
>I am beginning to rethink this problem. It happens very
>intermittently. I have recently discovered that if I push the car
>forward and pop the clutch (in first gear), this turns the engine but
>it does not start. However, at that point the normal starter works
>with no problems. It seems that there may be a short in one of the
>starter motor windings (possible) - or - the engine gets into a
>position that the starter cannot get it to turn (unlikely). When it
>gets into this odd state, I do hear the the solenoid engage (a click
>sound when the key is turned) and the starter "tries" to turn but it
>seems that there is simply not enough juice to get it to turn all the
>way over. It seems that something is draining all the power from the
>battery. �Then all of a sudden it will start working again.
>Has anyone had starter problems like this?
>-Tom
Re: Wire Harnesses for AZ600 Coupe - may be a starter problem
--- In anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com, "tmruwart"
wrote:
certainty that I have had EXACTLY the same problem as you have
described it! I have been reading with interest. My 70 sedan exibits
the same behavior! Word for word. I thought I was alone in this
strange problem. The posts you made to the group could have been
written about my issue too.
I'll read on with great interest as you work this through. Maybe we
can come up with a collective cause/fix for this. I do realize there
are many variables but I also relate to what you are going through.
You are not alone in your frustration.
Onward, Greg
wrote:
Without going into a great deal of detail I can tell you with> Hi guys,
> THanks for your responses....
> Has anyone had starter problems like this? -Tom Tom,
certainty that I have had EXACTLY the same problem as you have
described it! I have been reading with interest. My 70 sedan exibits
the same behavior! Word for word. I thought I was alone in this
strange problem. The posts you made to the group could have been
written about my issue too.
I'll read on with great interest as you work this through. Maybe we
can come up with a collective cause/fix for this. I do realize there
are many variables but I also relate to what you are going through.
You are not alone in your frustration.
Onward, Greg
Re: Wire Harnesses for AZ600 Coupe - may be a starter problem
A word of caution about this problem. The very first time it happened
last fall, I had the ignition on but not trying to start it and I
noticed a little bit of smoke rising from under the dash on the
driver's side. Not sure what it was but I quickly shut off the
ignition. I have not seen nor smelled any smoke since then but
something was getting uncomfortably hot under there. That is why I
thought it was something to do with a short in the wiring harness.
Now my theory rests more with the solenoid and starter. I will keep
you posted as to my findings on this one.
If it is like most electrical gadgets, they run on *smoke* - if you
let all the smoke out they stop working. I just hope I have some
smoke left and there are no leaks... :)
Stay tuned....
-Tom
last fall, I had the ignition on but not trying to start it and I
noticed a little bit of smoke rising from under the dash on the
driver's side. Not sure what it was but I quickly shut off the
ignition. I have not seen nor smelled any smoke since then but
something was getting uncomfortably hot under there. That is why I
thought it was something to do with a short in the wiring harness.
Now my theory rests more with the solenoid and starter. I will keep
you posted as to my findings on this one.
If it is like most electrical gadgets, they run on *smoke* - if you
let all the smoke out they stop working. I just hope I have some
smoke left and there are no leaks... :)
Stay tuned....
-Tom
-
dealadayray
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:08 am
Re: Wire Harnesses for AZ600 Coupe - may be a starter problem
Hi Tom;
It can also be the Bendex, often they fail in the older starters since
they are not often changed out when it's rebuilt. Even if the rebuilder
says it was, they cost $120.00 from Honda.
Bill
It can also be the Bendex, often they fail in the older starters since
they are not often changed out when it's rebuilt. Even if the rebuilder
says it was, they cost $120.00 from Honda.
Bill
-
dealadayray
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:08 am
Re: Wire Harnesses for AZ600 Coupe - may be a starter problem
Hi Tom;
Use a remote start button (They attach directly to your solenoid
contacts) and try it there or jack it up and turn the tire so you can get to
the leads crossing the Hot lead to the center connection. If it starts
every time then it is the wires or the connector, not normally the case, but
could be the problem. Did the wiring diagram come through ok?
Bill
Use a remote start button (They attach directly to your solenoid
contacts) and try it there or jack it up and turn the tire so you can get to
the leads crossing the Hot lead to the center connection. If it starts
every time then it is the wires or the connector, not normally the case, but
could be the problem. Did the wiring diagram come through ok?
Bill
Possible cause of starter problem...
Remember the problem I mentioned last week about the wiring harness
and the starting problem with my 72 600 coupe? Well, I was poking
around under the hood today and I noticed a loose bolt on the left
side of the engine. This is the bolt that fastens the ground cable
from the battery to the engine. There is also a BIG rubber gromet and
the left-heat shield. So I got out my trusty 10mm socket and
attempted to tighten it up but noticed that it was stripped out.
Hmmm.... I says to myself. Given the looseness of this connection,
could it be that *ocasionally* this causes a faulty ground or an
insufficicent ground for my stater to misbehave? Possible. I pulled
out the bolt and retapped it to 1/4-20 and put in a new bolt making
certain that all the bolts and washers are making good contact so
that I get a good ground. Now we wait and see.
I think this bolt loosened itself up and vibrated itself to the point
where it stripped the threads in the hole. The bolt itself was fine.
Given that the hole was stripped, the bolt was pretty loose, and the
contact with the cable was marginal at best, I would give this a high
probability of being the culprit. Time will tell....
Stay tuned.....
-Tom
and the starting problem with my 72 600 coupe? Well, I was poking
around under the hood today and I noticed a loose bolt on the left
side of the engine. This is the bolt that fastens the ground cable
from the battery to the engine. There is also a BIG rubber gromet and
the left-heat shield. So I got out my trusty 10mm socket and
attempted to tighten it up but noticed that it was stripped out.
Hmmm.... I says to myself. Given the looseness of this connection,
could it be that *ocasionally* this causes a faulty ground or an
insufficicent ground for my stater to misbehave? Possible. I pulled
out the bolt and retapped it to 1/4-20 and put in a new bolt making
certain that all the bolts and washers are making good contact so
that I get a good ground. Now we wait and see.
I think this bolt loosened itself up and vibrated itself to the point
where it stripped the threads in the hole. The bolt itself was fine.
Given that the hole was stripped, the bolt was pretty loose, and the
contact with the cable was marginal at best, I would give this a high
probability of being the culprit. Time will tell....
Stay tuned.....
-Tom