Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to fue

Lyle · Post by **Lyle** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:33 pm

Paul,
Don't forget that Honda 600's fire both cylinders at the same time, but let
me know how it goes. Where are you going to place the injectors?
Bill

dawn_and_darrian · Post by **dawn_and_darrian** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:03 am

For this type of setup we would be besting using a single injector system,
or at least a throttle body designed for this type of application. As I've
mentioned before, the 88-91 Civics (DX, LX, and STD models) used dual point
fuel injection. DOn't let the name deceive you, it only used one injector
unless under very heavy load. The injector was actually attached to the
throttle body, so it's an "all-in-one" system. As I also mentioned, it's
essentially a glorified carb. Simply replacing the carb with this system
would be perfect. The next step would be to drill a hole in the exhaust
manifold and weld a bolt to the hole so that an oxygen sensor can be
securely screwed into the manifold. An air temp sensor can be used to
distinguish between open and closed loop, and a heat activated cooling fan
can also be used. Using MegaSquirt would also be wonderful as it can
control the coil, but on further thought I'd probably rather leave that to
the points/condenser just to ensure the timing is correct.
Overall, I think it would be a very worthy conversion, and one that can
breath new life into these engines and cars. It would help modernize them a
bit, would reduce emissions, and would also most likely improve fuel economy
(which is my personal favorite).
I'm sure I'll tackle this one sometime later this year, perhaps next winter
when my n600 is resting for the season.

driftgtrskyline · Post by **driftgtrskyline** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:46 am

Great idea, but as far as improving fuel economy, Does the honda 600 really need improved fuel economy?
Matt Timion wrote:

> For this type of setup we would be besting using a single injector system, > or at least a throttle body designed for this type of application. As I've > mentioned before, the 88-91 Civics (DX, LX, and STD models) used dual point > fuel injection. DOn't let the name deceive you, it only used one injector > unless under very heavy load. The injector was actually attached to the > throttle body, so it's an "all-in-one" system. As I also mentioned, it's > essentially a glorified carb. Simply replacing the carb with this system > would be perfect. The next step would be to drill a hole in the exhaust > manifold and weld a bolt to the hole so that an oxygen > sensor can be > securely screwed into the manifold. An air temp sensor can be used to > distinguish between open and closed loop, and a heat activated cooling fan > can also be used. Using MegaSquirt would also be wonderful as it can > control the coil, but on further thought I'd probably rather leave that to > the points/condenser just to ensure the timing is correct.
> Overall, I think it would be a very worthy conversion, and one that can > breath new life into these engines and cars. It would help modernize them a > bit, would reduce emissions, and would also most likely improve fuel economy > (which is my personal favorite).
> I'm sure I'll tackle this one sometime later this year, perhaps next winter > when my n600 is resting for the season.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Colford"
> To: ; > Sent:
> Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:38 PM
> Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to > fuel injection?
> > Paul,
> > Don't forget that Honda 600's fire both cylinders at the same time, but > > let > > me know how it goes. Where are you going to place the injectors?
> > Bill
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dawn_and_darrian · Post by **dawn_and_darrian** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:38 am

Haha... From where I stand, the n600 needs improved fuel economy. Some people build for speed and power, I build for fuel economy. I'm working on my 89 civic sedan and I'm hoping to squeeze 60mpg out of it when I'm done. It's a realistic goal. I see no reason I shouldn't be able to get 60mpg out of a car that weighs a thousand pounds less then my civic.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Troy Pickle
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, February 13, 2006 8:45
> AM
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners] Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to fuel > injection?
> Great idea, but as far as improving fuel economy, Does the > honda 600 really need improved fuel economy?
> Matt Timion matt@...
> wrote:
> > For
> > this type of setup we would be besting using a single injector system,
> > or at least a throttle body designed for this type of application.
> > As I've
> > mentioned before, the 88-91 Civics (DX, LX, and STD models) used > > dual point > > fuel injection. DOn't let the name deceive you, it only > > used one injector > > unless under very heavy load. The injector was > > actually attached to the > > throttle body, so it's an "all-in-one" > > system. As I also mentioned, it's > > essentially a glorified > > carb. Simply replacing the carb with this system > > would be > > perfect. The next step would be to drill a hole in the exhaust
> > manifold and weld a bolt to the hole so that an oxygen sensor can be
> > securely screwed into the manifold. An air temp sensor can be used > > to > > distinguish between open and closed loop, and a heat activated > > cooling fan > > can also be used. Using MegaSquirt would also be > > wonderful as it can > > control the coil, but on further thought I'd > > probably rather leave that to > > the points/condenser just to ensure the > > timing is correct.
> > Overall, I think it would be a very worthy
> > conversion, and one that can
> > breath new life into these engines and
> > cars. It would help modernize them a
> > bit, would reduce emissions,
> > and would also most likely improve fuel economy
> > (which is my personal
> > favorite).
> > I'm sure I'll tackle this one sometime later this year,
> > perhaps next winter
> > when my n600 is resting for the season.
> > -----
> > Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Colford"
> >
> > To:
> > ;
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006
> > 8:38 PM
> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a > > 600 to > > fuel injection?
> > > Paul,
> > > Don't forget that
> > Honda 600's fire both cylinders at the same time, but > > > let
> > me know how it goes. Where are you going to place the > > injectors?
> > > Bill
> Relax. Yahoo! Mail
> virus
> scanning
> helps detect nasty viruses!

Dave Douglass · Post by **Dave Douglass** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:30 pm

Reliability would be a nice thing.... I found my 600 to be a bit tempermental in the starting running smooth all the time department..... gas milage was enver a problem... it burns gas i fill it no problem.....lol
While we are on the topic why not a little 10hp nos boost...something modest now Im not being a wiseguy....
Dave Matt Timion wrote:

> Haha... From where I stand, the n600 needs improved fuel economy. Some people build for speed and power, I build for fuel economy. I'm working on my 89 civic sedan and I'm hoping to squeeze 60mpg out of it when I'm done. It's a realistic goal. I see no reason I shouldn't be able to get > 60mpg out of a car that weighs a thousand pounds less then my civic.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > Troy Pickle
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent:
> > Monday, February 13, 2006 8:45 AM
> > Subject:
> > Re: [anzhonda600owners] Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to fuel injection?
> > Great idea, but as far as improving fuel economy, Does the honda 600 really need improved fuel economy?
> > Matt Timion > matt@...
> > wrote:
> > > For this type of setup we would be besting using a single injector system, > > > or at least a throttle body designed for this type of application. As I've > > > mentioned before, the 88-91 Civics (DX, LX, and STD models) used dual point > > > fuel injection. DOn't let the name deceive you, it only used one injector > > > unless under very heavy load. The injector was actually attached to the > > > throttle body, so it's an "all-in-one" system. As I also mentioned, it's > > > essentially a glorified carb. Simply replacing the carb with this system > > > would be perfect. The next step would be to drill a hole in the exhaust
> > > manifold and weld a bolt to the hole so that an oxygen sensor can be > > > securely screwed into the manifold. An air temp sensor can be used to > > > distinguish between open and closed loop, and a heat activated cooling fan > > > can also be used. Using MegaSquirt would also be wonderful as it can > > > control the coil, but on further thought I'd probably rather leave that to > > > the points/condenser just to ensure the timing is correct.
> > > Overall, I think it would be a very worthy conversion, and one that can > > > breath new life into these engines and cars. It would help modernize them a > > > bit, would reduce emissions, and would also most likely improve fuel economy > > > (which is my personal favorite).
> > > I'm sure I'll tackle this one sometime later this year, perhaps next winter > > > when my n600 is resting for the season.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill Colford"
> > > To:
> > > ; > > > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:38 PM > > > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to > > > fuel injection?
> > > > Paul,
> > > > Don't forget that Honda 600's fire both cylinders at the same time, but > > > > let > > > > me know how it goes. Where are you going to place the injectors?
> > > > Bill
> > Relax. Yahoo! Mail
> > virus scanning
> > helps detect nasty viruses!
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Larry · Post by **Larry** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:43 pm

Matt & friends...
One very important thing to remember is, you are working on an air
cooled engine, and if you begin to lean out the mixture for MPG
purposes, you will first notice a slight drop in power output, and then
you will begin to raise the operating temp in the cylinder head!!! Lean
mixes burn hotter.... my little 1970 sedan gets me 31 mpg in town, when
I drive intelligently!!! when I drove to Phoenix, AZ. from my home in
Redondo Beach, Ca. I got nearly 50 MPG on most of the trip... To me,
looking for extra MPG from your 600 seems like a silly idea!!!
I like mine stock and dependable!!! It's really not hard to keep it that
way!!!
Keep 'em rolling!
Larry

Lyle · Post by **Lyle** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:50 pm

Hi Larry;
I have to agree, but getting the parts to rebuild the Honda Carb's is
getting very hard. I have been looking into Viton O rings, and a bushing
for the shafts but more than that wears on these crab's. I have been
looking at a diaphragm type used on two cycle engines.
Harry Lineback, what do you think, anything out there this size?
Bill

Harry Lineback · Post by **Harry Lineback** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:55 am

bill
i think you have covered all the bases -- fine tuning
the internal combusting for better gas mileage is a
fine art -- same with top speed ==the top end of each
of these efforts is so dependent on external/internal
design forces that the driver/mechanic has to spend a
lot of energy to get that last 3-5% --- most of the
time it is not practical....
harry
--- Bill Colford wrote:

> Hi Larry;
> I have to agree, but getting the parts to rebuild
> the Honda Carb's is
> getting very hard. I have been looking into
> Viton O rings, and a bushing
> for the shafts but more than that wears on these
> crab's. I have been
> looking at a diaphragm type used on two cycle
> engines.
> Harry Lineback, what do you think, anything out
> there this size?
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf
> Of Larry
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:43 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re:600 MPG???
> Matt & friends...
> One very important thing to remember is, you are
> working on an air
> cooled engine, and if you begin to lean out the
> mixture for MPG
> purposes, you will first notice a slight drop in
> power output, and then
> you will begin to raise the operating temp in the
> cylinder head!!! Lean
> mixes burn hotter.... my little 1970 sedan gets me
> 31 mpg in town, when
> I drive intelligently!!! when I drove to Phoenix,
> AZ. from my home in
> Redondo Beach, Ca. I got nearly 50 MPG on most of
> the trip... To me,
> looking for extra MPG from your 600 seems like a
> silly idea!!!
> I like mine stock and dependable!!! It's really not
> hard to keep it that
> way!!!
> Keep 'em rolling!
> Larry

XXX-XXX-XXXX
no trees were harmed in the sending of this message

dawn_and_darrian · Post by **dawn_and_darrian** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:12 am

You make excellent points Larry. The air cooled engine has it's
limitations. Perhaps to successfully get fuel injection to work we would
need to add the oil cooler to the engine, as well as a second cooling fan.
The Megasquirt ECU has an output for an electric fan that you can set up to
turn on based on air temperature, etc.
I understand what you're saying about keeping these cars original, and I
agree with you for the most part. My car runs great right now. I think the
cam chain needs to be replaced, but that's about it. if I can, however,
find a way to make it run better (EFI) then why wouldn't I? We've had
thirty years of technology since the n600 came out. It would be a waste to
not try to impliment a little of the technology to help keep these cars on
the road.

Miles · Post by **Miles** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:07 am

I ordered a rebuild kit for a 1975 Honda GL1000 to see what would
fit the N/Z600 carbs. I got the kit on eBay for $20.00, it's high
quality and most parts are useable. The float bowl gasket even has
the same holes in it, just cut off the side wings to fit. The jets
are smaller but are easily drilled to match or simply remove the o-
rings and use on your jets. It comes with a float needle set that
fits right in. Float readjustment may be required.
If you look at complete carb sets on eBay you will see how similar
they are to the Honda 600's carbs. The company I got the kit from
said they could probably get custom made kits for us but would take
6 months from Keyster, the manufacturer in Japan. Here's the info:
http://tinyurl.com/e46xv
sci@...
www.siriusconinc.com
Sirius Consolidated Inc.
62 McBrine Place Suite #8
Huron Business Park
Kitchener, Ontario
N2R 1H3
Canada
XXX-XXX-XXXX
Fax 894-4111
I am rebuilding a carb for Joe W. right now with these parts and
will test it on my own car. The part they sell that looks like an
accelerator pump does not work for our cars, it's way too small. And
if you buy kits from them, get them Overnight or Express mail. Mine
took 3 weeks to get here.
Miles

Honda600Forum.com

Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to fue