I am posting this because I cannot seem to get the speedometer gear
housing to come out of the left cover. Is there a special trick to
this? I removed the bolt for the speedo drive shaft and sprayed PB
blast into the hole and in and around the housing.
Thanks,
Bob
72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal
Re: 72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal
Bob,
The o-ring on the speedo gear is probably presenting too much friction (or stiction?). Try connecting the speedo cable back to the gear and as you tighten the collar nut (or whatever it is called....the knurled thing), see if you can get the speedo gear to turn and wiggle it out of its housing. Also, where you removed the bolt holding the gear in place (using a 10mm wrench), you could put a pin punch into this area and tap on the gear holder and see if you can free it.
Just curious.....why are you trying to remove the speedo gear?
good luck,
Dale
The o-ring on the speedo gear is probably presenting too much friction (or stiction?). Try connecting the speedo cable back to the gear and as you tighten the collar nut (or whatever it is called....the knurled thing), see if you can get the speedo gear to turn and wiggle it out of its housing. Also, where you removed the bolt holding the gear in place (using a 10mm wrench), you could put a pin punch into this area and tap on the gear holder and see if you can free it.
Just curious.....why are you trying to remove the speedo gear?
good luck,
Dale
You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals.> I am
> posting this because I cannot seem to get the speedometer gear > housing to > come out of the left cover. Is there a special trick to > this? I removed > the bolt for the speedo drive shaft and sprayed PB > blast into the hole and > in and around the > housing.
> Thanks,
> Bob
Re: 72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal
Dale,
Thanks for the tip. I finally got it out. The reason I took it out is
because I thought in the book it said to remove this so I could get
the left hand cover off. Currently the pistons are stuck in the
cylinder and wetted with mystery oil. I have been breaking it all the
way down because I also found about a tablespoon ground aluminum on
the bottom of the crankcase. I did see the camshaft housing had a
groove cut in it by the cam chain and the slippers at the bottom were
gone. I am currenlty trying to disconnect the connecting rods from
the crankshaft so I can minimize damage to the percieved good parts.
Thanks again,
Bob
Thanks for the tip. I finally got it out. The reason I took it out is
because I thought in the book it said to remove this so I could get
the left hand cover off. Currently the pistons are stuck in the
cylinder and wetted with mystery oil. I have been breaking it all the
way down because I also found about a tablespoon ground aluminum on
the bottom of the crankcase. I did see the camshaft housing had a
groove cut in it by the cam chain and the slippers at the bottom were
gone. I am currenlty trying to disconnect the connecting rods from
the crankshaft so I can minimize damage to the percieved good parts.
Thanks again,
Bob
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Bob,
> The o-ring on the speedo gear is probably presenting too much
friction
> (or stiction?). Try connecting the speedo cable back to the gear
and as you
> tighten the collar nut (or whatever it is called....the knurled
thing), see
> if you can get the speedo gear to turn and wiggle it out of its
housing.
> Also, where you removed the bolt holding the gear in place (using
a 10mm
> wrench), you could put a pin punch into this area and tap on the
gear holder and
> see if you can free it.
> Just curious.....why are you trying to remove the speedo gear?
> good luck,
> Dale
> I am posting this because I cannot seem to get the speedometer
gear
> housing to come out of the left cover. Is there a special trick to
> this? I removed the bolt for the speedo drive shaft and sprayed PB
> blast into the hole and in and around the housing.
> Thanks,
> Bob
> **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can
choose how
> to find them. Start with AOL Personals.
> (
http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002)
Re: 72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal
Bob,
Not sure about removing the rods from the crankshaft. Note this line from http://mind-temple.com/600/index.html
"...They have a roller bearing crankshaft that is pressed together and is considered not rebuildable..."
I am sure there are some here that would disagree about the "not rebuildable" part!
Also see this thread on the other yahoo group.
Steve
Not sure about removing the rods from the crankshaft. Note this line from http://mind-temple.com/600/index.html
"...They have a roller bearing crankshaft that is pressed together and is considered not rebuildable..."
I am sure there are some here that would disagree about the "not rebuildable" part!
Also see this thread on the other yahoo group.
Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> sangreyb
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, February 20, 2009 7:25
> AM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Re: 72 honda
> 600 speedometer gear housing removal
> Dale,
> Thanks for the tip. I finally got it out. The reason I took it > out is > because I thought in the book it said to remove this so I could get
> the left hand cover off. Currently the pistons are stuck in the
> cylinder and wetted with mystery oil. I have been breaking it all the
> way down because I also found about a tablespoon ground aluminum on
> the bottom of the crankcase. I did see the camshaft housing had a
> groove cut in it by the cam chain and the slippers at the bottom were
> gone. I am currenlty trying to disconnect the connecting rods from > the > crankshaft so I can minimize damage to the percieved good parts.
> Thanks
> again,
> Bob
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> ,
> goinhm@... wrote:
> > Bob,
> > The o-ring on the
> speedo gear is probably presenting too much
> friction
> > (or
> stiction?). Try connecting the speedo cable back to the gear > and as you
> > tighten the collar nut (or whatever it is called....the knurled
> thing), see
> > if you can get the speedo gear to turn and wiggle it
> out of its
> housing.
> > Also, where you removed the bolt holding the
> gear in place (using
> a 10mm
> > wrench), you could put a pin punch
> into this area and tap on the
> gear holder and
> > see if you can free
> it.
> > Just curious..... why are you trying to remove the
> speedo gear?
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > I am
> posting this because I cannot seem to get the speedometer > gear
> housing to come out of the left cover. Is there a special trick to
> this? I removed the bolt for the speedo drive shaft and sprayed PB
> blast into the hole and in and around the housing.
> Thanks,
> > Bob
> > ************ **You can't
> always choose whom you love, but you can
> choose how
> > to find them.
> Start with AOL Personals.
> > (
> http://personals. aol.com/? ncid=emlcntuslov e00000002
> )
Re: 72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal
Bob,
It sounds like your cam chain tensioner (near the crank) is not working properly. And your cam chain is probably damaged. The crankshaft is press fit together ...... do you have a way to press the crank apart and press it back together?
good luck,
Dale
It sounds like your cam chain tensioner (near the crank) is not working properly. And your cam chain is probably damaged. The crankshaft is press fit together ...... do you have a way to press the crank apart and press it back together?
good luck,
Dale
You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals.> the
> bottom of the crankcase. I did see the camshaft housing had a > groove cut > in it by the cam chain and the slippers at the bottom were > gone. I am > currenlty trying to disconnect the connecting rods from > the crankshaft so > I can minimize damage to the percieved good > parts.
Re: 72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal
Dale,
I have a few pullers but this would probably require a press. I
noticed in the parts manual this uses a 6x16 bearing. I also noticed
this part was still available for other earlier honda models. Do you
know if this will work? There was a group comment earlier that some
components are interchangeble with a early honda cb450, though there
wasn't any confirmation. I do plan to replace all of the cam chain
contact components (chain, rollers, slippers, etc.) because I did
notice a lot of wear. I still have to try to find those replacement
parts.
Thanks,
Bob
I have a few pullers but this would probably require a press. I
noticed in the parts manual this uses a 6x16 bearing. I also noticed
this part was still available for other earlier honda models. Do you
know if this will work? There was a group comment earlier that some
components are interchangeble with a early honda cb450, though there
wasn't any confirmation. I do plan to replace all of the cam chain
contact components (chain, rollers, slippers, etc.) because I did
notice a lot of wear. I still have to try to find those replacement
parts.
Thanks,
Bob
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Bob,
> It sounds like your cam chain tensioner (near the crank) is
not working
> properly. And your cam chain is probably damaged. The crankshaft
is press
> fit together ...... do you have a way to press the crank apart and
press it
> back together?
> good luck,
> Dale
> the bottom of the crankcase. I did see the camshaft housing had a
> groove cut in it by the cam chain and the slippers at the bottom
were
> gone. I am currenlty trying to disconnect the connecting rods from
> the crankshaft so I can minimize damage to the percieved good
parts.
> **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can
choose how
> to find them. Start with AOL Personals.
> (
http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002)
-
blake neilson
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:32 am
Re: 72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal
Disassembly of a crank definitely requires a press. I have taken two cranks with one bad rod bearing on each and put the good parts of the two cranks together to make one usable crank. The problem with attempting to rebuild the cranks is repair parts. Where would you get them?
Also, the small ends of the rods do not have bushings and are likely to be worn beyond the service limit. I had to bore the rod small ends and put in bushings. This required some very expensive equipment I had access to when I worked in an automotive machine shop.
Bottom line, rebuilding these cranks can concievably/technically be done, but it's a lot harder and more involved than you realize.
GNB
Also, the small ends of the rods do not have bushings and are likely to be worn beyond the service limit. I had to bore the rod small ends and put in bushings. This required some very expensive equipment I had access to when I worked in an automotive machine shop.
Bottom line, rebuilding these cranks can concievably/technically be done, but it's a lot harder and more involved than you realize.
GNB
--- On
Fri, 2/20/09, sangreyb
wrote:
> From: sangreyb
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: 72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal > To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 12:50 PM
> Dale,
> I have a few pullers but this would probably require a press. I
> noticed in the parts manual this uses a 6x16 bearing. I also noticed
> this part was still available for other earlier honda models. Do you
> know if this will work? There was a group comment earlier that some
> components are interchangeble with a early honda cb450, though there
> wasn't any confirmation. I do plan to replace all of the cam chain
> contact components (chain, rollers, slippers, etc.) because I did
> notice a lot of wear. I still have to try to find those replacement
> parts.
> Thanks,
> Bob
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> , goinhm@... wrote:
> > Bob,
> > It sounds like your cam chain tensioner (near the crank) is
> not working
> > properly. And your cam chain is probably damaged. The crankshaft
> is press
> > fit together ...... do you have a way to press the crank apart and
> press it
> > back together?
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > the bottom of the crankcase. I did see the camshaft housing had a
> > groove cut in it by the cam chain and the slippers at the bottom
> were
> > gone. I am currenlty trying to disconnect the connecting rods from
> > the crankshaft so I can minimize damage to the percieved good
> parts.
> > ************ **You can't always choose whom you love, but you can
> choose how
> > to find them. Start with AOL Personals.
> > (
> http://personals. aol.com/? ncid=emlcntuslov e00000002
> )
Re: 72 honda 600 speedometer gear housing removal
Hi Bob;
I think it's great that you're rebuilding your engine and servicing the crankshaft. And, I don't know what your experience is so if this is a bit lengthy don't take it the wrong way.
First; if you have a new idea, please move forward and see if you can do it. But talk to a few shops that do this for Motorcycles, there are some areas that need some specific equipment and background to complete this successfully. I have reamers that will open the piston and rod end at the same time so they will accept an over sized wrist pin. It takes some prep, time and a steady hand but works great. So this is not a problem if you need to do this too.
Second; What takes some work and time is locating two crank shafts that have enough good parts to reassemble a good complete unit. Problem; the aluminum cages are a single size, and Honda had 10 sizes of roller which have to ride a shaft that can be 10 thousands of an inch off to match the roller size (Markings are on the crankshaft for the size of the bearings on the ends of the shaft, but not the rods or main bearings). And, it's not enough to just change out the rod bearings and shaft, the main bearings also have to be looked at.
Third; Initial wear happens to the aluminum roller cages at the ends of the rollers w hich are gouged out and these metal chips are passed along to other roller ends which destroys the rod and shaft by widening it. Then it widens enough to make a audible knock which if run long enough will break the lower end of the rod and push it out the front of the engine case. Or a catastrophic event.
Knowing this will help in identifying the parts you will need to change out. Bob, really, all of the parts will need to be measured and then reassembled the same way they were as before. Then the crankshaft will need to be balanced and trued.
Go to Miles Chappell's site, he has some pictures of what a crankshaft looks like when it's pulled apart. It's not impossible, however does require some tools and skill.
Dale has some good notes too, the crankshaft has been under hot and cold conditions while moving at 6K rpms causing it to almost weld itself together. And as he said, be safe, wear protection and protect the parts.
Forth; The metal you found in the engine case, may or may not have not have come from the crankshaft. I would look at the oil pump rod, the front of the cylinders where you said the cam chain was hitting is another area it could have come from. With metal chips in the oil system all parts will need to be looked at, measured and evaluated. Even the balls in the counter shaft bearing will have to be measured, the lash on the gears and shift plate to name a few others.
Dale mentioned going to a bearing supplier, and that is a tough organization. I go to Kaman Bearing and Supply Corp. They are a nation wide company but don't tell them it's for a car. Just the size and such. Then, these too will have to be pulled or pressed off.
Bob, I am not trying to stop our restoration, but this can be a lot of work when another rebuildable engine can be found and be a lot less work.
W ith what y our telling us this engine could have had a lot of miles on it, and I am betting the insides of the cases are black with tar from burnt oil, along with a number of other problems. I have pulled engines like yours apart several times and there are just not enough good usable parts to rebuild it.
Keep in mind that the case has the original serial number and you want to protect that so finding another engine and putting it together using the original cases is the best way to go.
Bill
I think it's great that you're rebuilding your engine and servicing the crankshaft. And, I don't know what your experience is so if this is a bit lengthy don't take it the wrong way.
First; if you have a new idea, please move forward and see if you can do it. But talk to a few shops that do this for Motorcycles, there are some areas that need some specific equipment and background to complete this successfully. I have reamers that will open the piston and rod end at the same time so they will accept an over sized wrist pin. It takes some prep, time and a steady hand but works great. So this is not a problem if you need to do this too.
Second; What takes some work and time is locating two crank shafts that have enough good parts to reassemble a good complete unit. Problem; the aluminum cages are a single size, and Honda had 10 sizes of roller which have to ride a shaft that can be 10 thousands of an inch off to match the roller size (Markings are on the crankshaft for the size of the bearings on the ends of the shaft, but not the rods or main bearings). And, it's not enough to just change out the rod bearings and shaft, the main bearings also have to be looked at.
Third; Initial wear happens to the aluminum roller cages at the ends of the rollers w hich are gouged out and these metal chips are passed along to other roller ends which destroys the rod and shaft by widening it. Then it widens enough to make a audible knock which if run long enough will break the lower end of the rod and push it out the front of the engine case. Or a catastrophic event.
Knowing this will help in identifying the parts you will need to change out. Bob, really, all of the parts will need to be measured and then reassembled the same way they were as before. Then the crankshaft will need to be balanced and trued.
Go to Miles Chappell's site, he has some pictures of what a crankshaft looks like when it's pulled apart. It's not impossible, however does require some tools and skill.
Dale has some good notes too, the crankshaft has been under hot and cold conditions while moving at 6K rpms causing it to almost weld itself together. And as he said, be safe, wear protection and protect the parts.
Forth; The metal you found in the engine case, may or may not have not have come from the crankshaft. I would look at the oil pump rod, the front of the cylinders where you said the cam chain was hitting is another area it could have come from. With metal chips in the oil system all parts will need to be looked at, measured and evaluated. Even the balls in the counter shaft bearing will have to be measured, the lash on the gears and shift plate to name a few others.
Dale mentioned going to a bearing supplier, and that is a tough organization. I go to Kaman Bearing and Supply Corp. They are a nation wide company but don't tell them it's for a car. Just the size and such. Then, these too will have to be pulled or pressed off.
Bob, I am not trying to stop our restoration, but this can be a lot of work when another rebuildable engine can be found and be a lot less work.
W ith what y our telling us this engine could have had a lot of miles on it, and I am betting the insides of the cases are black with tar from burnt oil, along with a number of other problems. I have pulled engines like yours apart several times and there are just not enough good usable parts to rebuild it.
Keep in mind that the case has the original serial number and you want to protect that so finding another engine and putting it together using the original cases is the best way to go.
Bill