I have a couple (N600) engines available for sale. How can I learn what they are worth? Searching the internet and the archives of this list was a frustrating experience! One definitely does not run, the other is of completely unknown condition but in the car.
Mark Beckwith
Bartlesville OK
value of used engines?
Re: value of used engines?
Mark
I would think being neither one runs that they are both shot.
having no idea what it would take to get them going, I would say you might be better off selling them on ebay piece meal. That is just selling the parts.. If the crank is bad I think I have heard that is a $3500 part in its self if it was in very good condition.
hope this helps and I am sure more will ring in of this.
Tom T
I would think being neither one runs that they are both shot.
having no idea what it would take to get them going, I would say you might be better off selling them on ebay piece meal. That is just selling the parts.. If the crank is bad I think I have heard that is a $3500 part in its self if it was in very good condition.
hope this helps and I am sure more will ring in of this.
Tom T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> megansdadd
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:34
> PM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] value of
> used engines?
> I have a couple (N600) engines available for sale. How can I learn what > they are worth? Searching the internet and the archives of this list was a > frustrating experience! One definitely does not run, the other is of > completely unknown condition but in the car.
> Mark Beckwith
> Bartlesville OK
Re: value of used engines?
Mark,
From your description, these engines would be worth $100 or less to me? The parts which hold up the best are gears and differential. The cam can be rebuilt, the cylinders can be resleeved, the head can be rebuilt. The crankshaft is very expensive to rebuild. If you want to get more than $100 out of the engine, you need to find out the condition of the crankshaft. A crank in good condition can be worth $500 or more to someone who has a car needing a crank since these items are hard to find in good condition. If you were to find out the cylinder, pistons, and cam section are all still within spec, this engine could be a gold mine for someone attempting to rebuild there engine. In your case, tearing down the engine and seeing what you have can only add to its value. To finish answering your question, your engine in not running condition is worth somewhere between $100 and $700 dollars as a used engine( (a good crank, cam, pistons, cylinder drives it toward $700). If you disassemble it and find lots of new parts in it (e.g. primary drive, crankshaft, cam chain slipper) you could sell the engine piece-wise and make a tidy sum.
Of course, you might be lucky and find a buyer with no patience who would give you $1000 for what you have.
This is my story and I'm sticking to it,
Dale
Get Recipes & Savings Now.
From your description, these engines would be worth $100 or less to me? The parts which hold up the best are gears and differential. The cam can be rebuilt, the cylinders can be resleeved, the head can be rebuilt. The crankshaft is very expensive to rebuild. If you want to get more than $100 out of the engine, you need to find out the condition of the crankshaft. A crank in good condition can be worth $500 or more to someone who has a car needing a crank since these items are hard to find in good condition. If you were to find out the cylinder, pistons, and cam section are all still within spec, this engine could be a gold mine for someone attempting to rebuild there engine. In your case, tearing down the engine and seeing what you have can only add to its value. To finish answering your question, your engine in not running condition is worth somewhere between $100 and $700 dollars as a used engine( (a good crank, cam, pistons, cylinder drives it toward $700). If you disassemble it and find lots of new parts in it (e.g. primary drive, crankshaft, cam chain slipper) you could sell the engine piece-wise and make a tidy sum.
Of course, you might be lucky and find a buyer with no patience who would give you $1000 for what you have.
This is my story and I'm sticking to it,
Dale
Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.> I have
> a couple (N600) engines available for sale. How can I learn what they are > worth? Searching the internet and the archives of this list was a frustrating > experience! One definitely does not run, the other is of completely unknown > condition but in the car.
> Mark Beckwith
> Bartlesville
> OK
Get Recipes & Savings Now.
-
Mark Beckwith
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 11:24 pm
Re: value of used engines?
Thanks fellows - this is the kind of info I was looking for.
On the crank, what breaks? Obviously if it's cracked or broken - but also bearing surfaces that score deeper than -.040 or whatever oversize bearings can compensate for? In other words, if I pulled off the pan (showing my ignorance here, never even cracked a bolt of one of these little motors) would I be able to tell or do I need to pretty much pull the crank and measure it?
So - $75 would be reasonable for the one in not running condition? It's sitting on the ground outdoors, and has been for about 5 years. It has NO valve cover. The head has been pointing UP. I tipped it over last night and crystal clear water, a fair bit of it, came out the head (as I assumed it would, but it wasn't dirty/rusty).
I am pretty sure I can come up with the valve cover.
On the other engine which is still in the car, the condition is unknown except that at least it has the valve cover on :) What quick test would I run on it (if any?) to decide whether to ditch it for $75 or to learn that it had more value?
Mark
On the crank, what breaks? Obviously if it's cracked or broken - but also bearing surfaces that score deeper than -.040 or whatever oversize bearings can compensate for? In other words, if I pulled off the pan (showing my ignorance here, never even cracked a bolt of one of these little motors) would I be able to tell or do I need to pretty much pull the crank and measure it?
So - $75 would be reasonable for the one in not running condition? It's sitting on the ground outdoors, and has been for about 5 years. It has NO valve cover. The head has been pointing UP. I tipped it over last night and crystal clear water, a fair bit of it, came out the head (as I assumed it would, but it wasn't dirty/rusty).
I am pretty sure I can come up with the valve cover.
On the other engine which is still in the car, the condition is unknown except that at least it has the valve cover on :) What quick test would I run on it (if any?) to decide whether to ditch it for $75 or to learn that it had more value?
Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> goinhm@...
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, May 29, 2009 2:41 AM
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners] value of
> used engines?
> Mark,
> From your description, these engines
> would be worth $100 or less to me? The parts which hold up the best are > gears and differential. The cam can be rebuilt, the > cylinders can be resleeved, the head can be rebuilt. The > crankshaft is very expensive to rebuild. If you want to get more than $100 out > of the engine, you need to find out the condition of the > crankshaft. A crank in good condition can be worth $500 or more to > someone who has a car needing a crank since these items are hard to find in > good condition. If you were to find out the cylinder, pistons, and > cam section are all still within spec, this engine could be a gold mine > for someone attempting to rebuild there engine. In your case, > tearing down the engine and seeing what you have can only add to its > value. To finish answering your question, your engine in not > running condition is worth somewhere between $100 and $700 dollars as a used > engine( (a good crank, cam, pistons, cylinder drives it toward $700). If > you disassemble it and find lots of new parts in it (e.g. primary drive, > crankshaft, cam chain slipper) you could sell the engine piece-wise and > make a tidy sum.
> Of course, you might be lucky and find a buyer with no patience who > would give you $1000 for what you have.
> This is my story and I'm sticking to it,
> Dale
> > I
> > have a couple (N600) engines available for sale. How can I learn what they > > are worth? Searching the internet and the archives of this list was a > > frustrating experience! One definitely does not run, the other is of > > completely unknown condition but in the car.
> > Mark Beckwith
> > Bartlesville OK
> Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.
> Get
> Recipes & Savings Now.
Re: value of used engines?
Hi Mark,
See my comments below.
pull off the valve cover, remove the spark plugs, and turn the engine over by hand. Do the valve components move up and down smoothly and do you see any rust on the cam lobes or chain. If this is looking good good, turn the engine over until the notch in the camshaft (driver side) faces up. You will see it appear in the driver side cam bearing.
When the notch appears, look at the pulley on the flywheel and see if the notch in it is opposite the "T" mark on the engine casing (you can also check to see if the pistons are at top dead center). It should be fairly close to being lined up. If it isn't, don't go to the next step because you may bend a valve. If it is lined up, the next thing to do is squirt some oil on the components under the valve cover, squirt a little oil in each cylinder, and connect a battery to the starter motor to run a compression test (the engine doesn't need any gas for this test and removing the carb may give a more accurate reading). A good reading would be 160 psi for each cylinder. If you are getting good compression, you have an engine which is a good candidate to be a running motor.
good luck,
Dale
Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.
Get Recipes & Savings Now.
See my comments below.
The quick test is the compression test. But do this first;> Thanks fellows - this is the kind of info
> I was looking for.
> On the crank, what breaks?
> Obviously if it's cracked or broken - but also bearing surfaces that score > deeper than -.040 or whatever oversize bearings can compensate for? In > other words, if I pulled off the pan (showing my ignorance here, never even > cracked a bolt of one of these little motors) would I be able to tell or do I > need to pretty much pull the crank and measure > it?
The connecting rod bearing disintegrates which damages the connecting rod and the crank journal. This is the scenario I have seen most frequently. The problem usually appears on one side first. If you wait too long to fix the problem, the crankshaft breaks free and punches a hole in the front of the engine.
The crankshaft is a roller bearing design. It does not have sleeve bearings with oversizes which can be purchased. The crank design is superior in design to what you will find on the majority of cars. It has more in common with a motorcycle than most autos. BTW, the crank is press fit together. No unbolting the crankshaft and replacing it easily.
The Honda 600 does not have an oil pan which you pull off. The crank can be checked in the car but judging by your questions, you don't know how to do it. Someone who has been around these engines a long time can listen to it and tell what is wrong. Using an automotive stethoscope helps. You can also check the crank in the car doing an oil analysis and using a modal analyzer (but you would need to have a baseline to compare against which you do not have). So for you, disassemble the engine, remove the crank apart and inspect and measure it.
> So - $75 would be reasonable for the one
> in not running condition? It's sitting on the ground outdoors, and has > been for about 5 years. It has NO valve cover. The head has > been pointing UP. I tipped it over last night and crystal > clear water, a fair bit of it, came out the head (as I assumed it > would, but it wasn't dirty/rusty) .
Now that engine is only worth $25 to me. I would only be buying it if I needed something aluminum such as an engine casing, cylinder head, or cylinder barrel (while this may be rusted, it is probably salvageable). All the steel parts are probably rusty and pretty much scrap. Even the gears are probably damaged which is a shame.
But you never know until you take everything apart but it now requires a deeper inspection of the parts.
> On the other engine which is still in the
> car, the condition is unknown except that at least it has the valve cover > on :) What quick test would I run on it (if any?) to decide whether to > ditch it for $75 or to learn that it had more value?
> Mark
pull off the valve cover, remove the spark plugs, and turn the engine over by hand. Do the valve components move up and down smoothly and do you see any rust on the cam lobes or chain. If this is looking good good, turn the engine over until the notch in the camshaft (driver side) faces up. You will see it appear in the driver side cam bearing.
When the notch appears, look at the pulley on the flywheel and see if the notch in it is opposite the "T" mark on the engine casing (you can also check to see if the pistons are at top dead center). It should be fairly close to being lined up. If it isn't, don't go to the next step because you may bend a valve. If it is lined up, the next thing to do is squirt some oil on the components under the valve cover, squirt a little oil in each cylinder, and connect a battery to the starter motor to run a compression test (the engine doesn't need any gas for this test and removing the carb may give a more accurate reading). A good reading would be 160 psi for each cylinder. If you are getting good compression, you have an engine which is a good candidate to be a running motor.
good luck,
Dale
Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.
Get Recipes & Savings Now.
-
roger white
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:19 am
Re: value of used engines?
When I saw the photos of the spare engine it reminded me of pictures of bleached skulls of oxen along the Oregon trail. Most of the internal engine parts were not plated because engineers figured that the parts would be
covered in a film of engine oil. Five years of rain killed that.
Dale was spot on in his directions to see if the engine in the car was viable.
His instructions were the most concise instructions to see if a 600 engine was trash or treasure I've ever seen.
The only thing I can add is to use plently of penetrating oil on moving parts and if movement stops on one direction of engine rotation, try more
oil and turn the opposite direction. Usually rocking back and forth will loosen up
most stiff engine with the least amount of damage.
You may have to spend a couple of days on the engine but this time may really pay off.
From:
"goinhm@..." To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Friday, May 29, 2009 6:40:34 PM Subject:
Re: [anzhonda600owners] value of used engines?
Hi Mark,
See my comments below.
pull off the valve cover, remove the spark plugs, and turn the engine over by hand. Do the valve components move up and down smoothly and do you see any rust on the cam lobes or chain. If this is looking good good, turn the engine over until the notch in the camshaft (driver side) faces up. You will see it appear in the driver side cam bearing. When the notch appears, look at the pulley on the flywheel and see if the notch in it is opposite the "T" mark on the engine casing (you can also check to see if the pistons are at top dead center). It should be fairly close to being lined up. If it isn't, don't go to the next step because you may bend a valve. If it is lined up, the next thing to do is squirt some oil on the components under the valve cover, squirt a little oil in each cylinder, and connect a battery to the starter motor to run a compression test (the engine doesn't need any gas for this test and removing the carb may give a more accurate reading). A good reading would be 160 psi for each cylinder. If you are getting good compression, you have an engine which is a good candidate to be a running motor.
good luck,
Dale
Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.
Get Recipes Savings Now.
covered in a film of engine oil. Five years of rain killed that.
Dale was spot on in his directions to see if the engine in the car was viable.
His instructions were the most concise instructions to see if a 600 engine was trash or treasure I've ever seen.
The only thing I can add is to use plently of penetrating oil on moving parts and if movement stops on one direction of engine rotation, try more
oil and turn the opposite direction. Usually rocking back and forth will loosen up
most stiff engine with the least amount of damage.
You may have to spend a couple of days on the engine but this time may really pay off.
From:
"goinhm@..." To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Friday, May 29, 2009 6:40:34 PM Subject:
Re: [anzhonda600owners] value of used engines?
Hi Mark,
See my comments below.
The quick test is the compression test. But do this first;> Thanks fellows - this is the kind of info I was looking for.
> On the crank, what breaks? Obviously if it's cracked or broken - but also bearing surfaces that score deeper than -.040 or whatever oversize bearings can compensate for? In other words, if I pulled off the pan (showing my ignorance here, never even cracked a bolt of one of these little motors) would I be able to tell or do I need to pretty much pull the crank and measure it?
The connecting rod bearing disintegrates which damages the connecting rod and the crank journal. This is the scenario I have seen most frequently. The problem usually appears on one side first. If you wait too long to fix the problem, the crankshaft breaks free and punches a hole in the front of the engine.
The crankshaft is a roller bearing design. It does not have sleeve bearings with oversizes which can be purchased. The crank design is superior in design to what you will find on the majority of cars. It has more in common with a motorcycle than most autos. BTW, the crank is press fit together. No unbolting the crankshaft and replacing it easily.
The Honda 600 does not have an oil pan which you pull off. The crank can be checked in the car but judging by your questions, you don't know how to do it. Someone who has been around these engines a long time can listen to it and tell what is wrong. Using an automotive stethoscope helps. You can also check the crank in the car doing an oil analysis and using a modal analyzer (but you would need to have a baseline to compare against which you do not have). So for you, disassemble the engine, remove the crank apart and inspect and measure it.
> So - $75 would be reasonable for the one in not running condition? It's sitting on the ground outdoors, and has been for about 5 years. It has NO valve cover. The head has been pointing UP. I tipped it over last night and crystal clear water, a fair bit of it, came out the head (as I assumed it would, but it wasn't dirty/rusty) .
Now that engine is only worth $25 to me. I would only be buying it if I needed something aluminum such as an engine casing, cylinder head, or cylinder barrel (while this may be rusted, it is probably salvageable) . All the steel parts are probably rusty and pretty much scrap. Even the gears are probably damaged which is a shame. But you never know until you take everything apart but it now requires a deeper inspection of the parts.
> On the other engine which is still in the car, the condition is unknown except that at least it has the valve cover on :) What quick test would I run on it (if any?) to decide whether to ditch it for $75 or to learn that it had more value?
> Mark
pull off the valve cover, remove the spark plugs, and turn the engine over by hand. Do the valve components move up and down smoothly and do you see any rust on the cam lobes or chain. If this is looking good good, turn the engine over until the notch in the camshaft (driver side) faces up. You will see it appear in the driver side cam bearing. When the notch appears, look at the pulley on the flywheel and see if the notch in it is opposite the "T" mark on the engine casing (you can also check to see if the pistons are at top dead center). It should be fairly close to being lined up. If it isn't, don't go to the next step because you may bend a valve. If it is lined up, the next thing to do is squirt some oil on the components under the valve cover, squirt a little oil in each cylinder, and connect a battery to the starter motor to run a compression test (the engine doesn't need any gas for this test and removing the carb may give a more accurate reading). A good reading would be 160 psi for each cylinder. If you are getting good compression, you have an engine which is a good candidate to be a running motor.
good luck,
Dale
Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.
Get Recipes Savings Now.
-
Mark Beckwith
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 11:24 pm
Re: value of used engines?
Man, you guys are great!
Thanks for the tips, Roger Dale et al. I'll have to "git after it."
Mark
Thanks for the tips, Roger Dale et al. I'll have to "git after it."
Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> roger white
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, May 29, 2009 7:39 PM
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners] value of
> used engines?
> When I saw the photos of the spare engine it reminded me of pictures of > bleached skulls of oxen along the Oregon trail. Most of the internal engine > parts were not plated because engineers figured that the parts would be
> covered in a film of engine oil. Five years of rain killed that.
> Dale was spot on in his directions to see if the engine in the car was > viable.
> His instructions were the most concise instructions to see if a > 600 engine was trash or treasure I've ever seen.
> The only thing I can add is to use plently of penetrating oil on moving > parts and if movement stops on one direction of engine rotation, try > more
> oil and turn the opposite direction. Usually rocking back and forth will > loosen up
> most stiff engine with the least amount of damage.
> You may have to spend a couple of days on the engine but this time may > really pay off.
> From:
> "goinhm@..."
>
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, May 29, 2009 6:40:34
> PM
> Subject:
> Re:
> [anzhonda600owners] value of used engines?
> Hi Mark,
> See my comments below.
> > Thanks fellows - this is the kind of
> > info I was looking for.
> > On the crank, what breaks?
> > Obviously if it's cracked or broken - but also bearing surfaces that score > > deeper than -.040 or whatever oversize bearings can compensate for? In > > other words, if I pulled off the pan (showing my ignorance here, never even > > cracked a bolt of one of these little motors) would I be able to tell or do > > I need to pretty much pull the crank and measure > > it?
> The connecting rod bearing disintegrates which damages the connecting rod > and the crank journal. This is the scenario I have seen most > frequently. The problem usually appears on one side first. If you > wait too long to fix the problem, the crankshaft breaks free and punches > a hole in the front of the engine.
> The crankshaft is a roller bearing design. It does not have > sleeve bearings with oversizes which can be purchased. The crank design > is superior in design to what you will find on the majority of cars. It > has more in common with a motorcycle than most autos. BTW, > the crank is press fit together. No unbolting the crankshaft and > replacing it easily.
> The Honda 600 does not have an oil pan which you pull off. The > crank can be checked in the car but judging by your questions, you don't > know how to do it. Someone who has been around these engines a long time > can listen to it and tell what is wrong. Using an automotive stethoscope > helps. You can also check the crank in the car doing an oil analysis and > using a modal analyzer (but you would need to have a baseline to compare > against which you do not have). So for you, disassemble > the engine, remove the crank apart and inspect and measure it.
> > So - $75 would be reasonable for the
> > one in not running condition? It's sitting on the ground outdoors, and > > has been for about 5 years. It has NO valve cover. The head has > > been pointing UP. I tipped it over last night and crystal > > clear water, a fair bit of it, came out the head (as I assumed it > > would, but it wasn't dirty/rusty) .
> Now that engine is only worth $25 to me. I would only be buying it > if I needed something aluminum such as an engine casing, cylinder head, > or cylinder barrel (while this may be rusted, it is probably > salvageable) . All the steel parts are probably rusty and pretty much > scrap. Even the gears are probably damaged which is a shame.
> But you never know until you take everything apart but it now requires a > deeper inspection of the parts.
> > On the other engine which is still in
> > the car, the condition is unknown except that at least it has the valve > > cover on :) What quick test would I run on it (if any?) to decide > > whether to ditch it for $75 or to learn that it had more value?
> > Mark
> The quick test is the compression test. But do this first;
> pull off the valve cover, remove the spark plugs, and turn the > engine over by hand. Do the valve components move up and down smoothly > and do you see any rust on the cam lobes or chain. If this is looking > good good, turn the engine over until the notch in the camshaft (driver > side) faces up. You will see it appear in the driver side cam > bearing. When the notch appears, look at the pulley on the > flywheel and see if the notch in it is opposite the "T" mark on the engine > casing (you can also check to see if the pistons are at top dead > center). It should be fairly close to being lined up. If it > isn't, don't go to the next step because you may bend a valve. If > it is lined up, the next thing to do is squirt some oil on the > components under the valve cover, squirt a little oil in each > cylinder, and connect a battery to the starter motor to run a > compression test (the engine doesn't need any gas for this test and removing > the carb may give a more accurate reading). A good reading would be 160 > psi for each cylinder. If you are getting good compression, > you have an engine which is a good candidate to be a running motor.
> good luck,
> Dale
> Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.
> Get Recipes Savings
> Now.
Re: value of used engines?
Hi Mark. Do you have my regular email?
--- On
Fri, 5/29/09, Mark Beckwith
wrote:
> From: Mark Beckwith
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] value of used engines?
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 10:05 PM
> Man, you guys are great! Thanks for the tips, Roger Dale et al. I'll have to "git after it."
> Mark
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > roger white
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Friday, May 29, 2009 7:39 PM
> > Subject:
> > Re: [anzhonda600owners] value of used engines?
> > When I saw the photos of the spare engine it reminded me of pictures of bleached skulls of oxen along the Oregon trail. Most of the internal engine parts were not plated because engineers figured that the parts would be
> > covered in a film of engine oil. Five years of rain killed that.
> > Dale was spot on in his directions to see if the engine in the car was viable.
> > His instructions were the most concise instructions to see if a 600 engine was trash or treasure I've ever seen.
> > The only thing I can add is to use plently of penetrating oil on moving parts and if movement stops on one direction of engine rotation, try more
> > oil and turn the opposite direction. Usually rocking back and forth will loosen up
> > most stiff engine with the least amount of damage.
> > You may have to spend a couple of days on the engine but this time may really pay off.
> > From:
> > "goinhm@aol. com"
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Friday, May 29, 2009 6:40:34 PM
> > Subject:
> > Re: [anzhonda600owners] value of used engines?
> > Hi Mark,
> > See my comments below.
> > > Thanks fellows - this is the kind of info I was looking for.
> > > On the crank, what breaks? Obviously if it's cracked or broken - but also bearing surfaces that score deeper than -.040 or whatever oversize bearings can compensate for? In other words, if I pulled off the pan (showing my ignorance here, never even cracked a bolt of one of these little motors) would I be able to tell or do I need to pretty much pull the crank and measure it?
> > The connecting rod bearing disintegrates which damages the connecting rod and the crank journal. This is the scenario I have seen most frequently. The problem usually appears on one side first. If you wait too long to fix the problem, the crankshaft breaks free and punches a hole in the front of the engine.
> > The crankshaft is a roller bearing design. It does not have sleeve bearings with oversizes which can be purchased. The crank design is superior in design to what you will find on the majority of cars. It has more in common with a motorcycle than most autos. BTW, the crank is press fit together. No unbolting the crankshaft and replacing it easily.
> > The Honda 600 does not have an oil pan which you pull off. The crank can be checked in the car but judging by your questions, you don't know how to do it. Someone who has been around these engines a long time can listen to it and tell what is wrong. Using an automotive stethoscope helps. You can also check the crank in the car doing an oil analysis and using a modal analyzer (but you would need to have a baseline to compare against which you do not have). So for you, disassemble the engine, remove the crank apart and inspect and measure it.
> > > So - $75 would be reasonable for the one in not running condition? It's sitting on the ground outdoors, and has been for about 5 years. It has NO valve cover. The head has been pointing UP. I tipped it over last night and crystal clear water, a fair bit of it, came out the head (as I assumed it would, but it wasn't dirty/rusty) .
> > Now that engine is only worth $25 to me. I would only be buying it if I needed something aluminum such as an engine casing, cylinder head, or cylinder barrel (while this may be rusted, it is probably salvageable) . All the steel parts are probably rusty and pretty much scrap. Even the gears are probably damaged which is a shame. But you never know until you take everything apart but it now requires a deeper inspection of the parts.
> > > On the other engine which is still in the car, the condition is unknown except that at least it has the valve cover on :) What quick test would I run on it (if any?) to decide whether to ditch it for $75 or to learn that it had more value?
> > > Mark
> > The quick test is the compression test. But do this first;
> > pull off the valve cover, remove the spark plugs, and turn the engine over by hand. Do the valve components move up and down smoothly and do you see any rust on the cam lobes or chain. If this is looking good good, turn the engine over until the notch in the camshaft (driver side) faces up. You will see it appear in the driver side cam bearing. When the notch appears, look at the pulley on the flywheel and see if the notch in it is opposite the "T" mark on the engine casing (you can also check to see if the pistons are at top dead center). It should be fairly close to being lined up. If it isn't, don't go to the next step because you may bend a valve. If it is lined up, the next thing to do is squirt some oil on the components under the valve cover, squirt a little oil in each cylinder, and connect a battery to the starter motor to run a compression test (the engine > > doesn't need any gas for this test and removing the carb may give a more accurate reading). A good reading would be 160 psi for each cylinder. If you are getting good compression, you have an engine which is a good candidate to be a running motor.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.
> > Get Recipes Savings Now.
Re: value of used engines?
Hi Mark;
There are several things I think about when an engine is presented to me that has been setting for a long, long time.
First, was it closed up? sealed at the openings to keep moisture out.
Second, when you do a compression test, not having both spark plugs out negates the test. you need to have both plugs out, oil in the cylinders, rotate it at a couple hundred RPM's to get things lubricated and even then it is iffy at best.
Third, Just pull it apart. as Dale said, if your lucky, you may be able to remove the plug. I would take it to a Machine shop that works on Motorcycles or older VWs and ask them what they can do. At the very least the cylinders will have to be honed. If you have a broken ring in a piston, when did it break? during disassembly or before. If it ran on a broken ring, you can measure it to see how wide the grove is but it most likely will be out of spec and the only fix is a new piston. Remember one thing when your putting this engine back together - your shift ranges will be between 5 and 6 thousand RPM's and at that speed anything loose will make it's presents known. Read the factory manuals, cover to cover, then read them again. I have a sign on the wall in my garage, it reads "IF ALL ELSE FAILS READ THE INSTRUCTIONS" under that it reads "AND FOLLOW THEM". It sounds easy, but I find myself looking at that sign more often than you would think. Even after rebuilding quite a few of these engines, I still go back to the factory instructions.
Bill
There are several things I think about when an engine is presented to me that has been setting for a long, long time.
First, was it closed up? sealed at the openings to keep moisture out.
Second, when you do a compression test, not having both spark plugs out negates the test. you need to have both plugs out, oil in the cylinders, rotate it at a couple hundred RPM's to get things lubricated and even then it is iffy at best.
Third, Just pull it apart. as Dale said, if your lucky, you may be able to remove the plug. I would take it to a Machine shop that works on Motorcycles or older VWs and ask them what they can do. At the very least the cylinders will have to be honed. If you have a broken ring in a piston, when did it break? during disassembly or before. If it ran on a broken ring, you can measure it to see how wide the grove is but it most likely will be out of spec and the only fix is a new piston. Remember one thing when your putting this engine back together - your shift ranges will be between 5 and 6 thousand RPM's and at that speed anything loose will make it's presents known. Read the factory manuals, cover to cover, then read them again. I have a sign on the wall in my garage, it reads "IF ALL ELSE FAILS READ THE INSTRUCTIONS" under that it reads "AND FOLLOW THEM". It sounds easy, but I find myself looking at that sign more often than you would think. Even after rebuilding quite a few of these engines, I still go back to the factory instructions.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> Mark
> Beckwith
> Sent:
> Friday, May 29, 2009 8:06 PM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners]
> value of used engines?
> Man, you guys are great!
> Thanks for the tips, Roger Dale et al. I'll have to "git after > it."
> Mark
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > roger white
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Friday, May 29, 2009 7:39
> > PM
> > Subject:
> > Re: [anzhonda600owners] value
> > of used engines?
> > When I saw the photos of the spare engine it reminded me of pictures of > > bleached skulls of oxen along the Oregon trail. Most of the internal engine > > parts were not plated because engineers figured that the parts would > > be
> > covered in a film of engine oil. Five years of rain killed that.
> > Dale was spot on in his directions to see if the engine in the car was > > viable.
> > His instructions were the most concise instructions to see if a > > 600 engine was trash or treasure I've ever seen.
> > The only thing I can add is to use plently of penetrating oil on moving > > parts and if movement stops on one direction of engine rotation, try > > more
> > oil and turn the opposite direction. Usually rocking back and forth > > will loosen up
> > most stiff engine with the least amount of damage.
> > You may have to spend a couple of days on the engine but this time may > > really pay off.
> > From:
> > "goinhm@aol. com"
> >
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Friday, May 29, 2009 6:40:34
> > PM
> > Subject:
> > Re:
> > [anzhonda600owners] value of used engines?
> > Hi Mark,
> > See my comments below.
> > > Thanks fellows - this is the kind of
> > > info I was looking for.
> > > On the crank, what breaks?
> > > Obviously if it's cracked or broken - but also bearing surfaces that score > > > deeper than -.040 or whatever oversize bearings can compensate for?
> > > In other words, if I pulled off the pan (showing my ignorance here, never > > > even cracked a bolt of one of these little motors) would I be able to tell > > > or do I need to pretty much pull the crank and measure > > > it?
> > The connecting rod bearing disintegrates which damages the connecting > > rod and the crank journal. This is the scenario I have seen most > > frequently. The problem usually appears on one side first. If > > you wait too long to fix the problem, the crankshaft breaks free and > > punches a hole in the front of the engine.
> > The crankshaft is a roller bearing design. It does not have > > sleeve bearings with oversizes which can be purchased. The crank > > design is superior in design to what you will find on the majority of > > cars. It has more in common with a motorcycle than most > > autos. BTW, the crank is press fit together. No > > unbolting the crankshaft and replacing it easily.
> > The Honda 600 does not have an oil pan which you pull off. The > > crank can be checked in the car but judging by your questions, you > > don't know how to do it. Someone who has been around these engines a > > long time can listen to it and tell what is wrong. Using an automotive > > stethoscope helps. You can also check the crank in the car doing an > > oil analysis and using a modal analyzer (but you would need to have a > > baseline to compare against which you do not have). So for > > you, disassemble the engine, remove the crank apart and > > inspect and measure it.
> > > So - $75 would be reasonable for the
> > > one in not running condition? It's sitting on the ground outdoors, > > > and has been for about 5 years. It has NO valve cover. The > > > head has been pointing UP. I tipped it over last night and > > > crystal clear water, a fair bit of it, came out the head (as I > > > assumed it would, but it wasn't dirty/rusty) > > > .
> > Now that engine is only worth $25 to me. I would only be buying > > it if I needed something aluminum such as an engine casing, cylinder > > head, or cylinder barrel (while this may be rusted, it is > > probably salvageable) . All the steel parts are probably rusty and > > pretty much scrap. Even the gears are probably damaged which is a > > shame. But you never know until you take everything apart but it > > now requires a deeper inspection of the parts.
> > > On the other engine which is still in
> > > the car, the condition is unknown except that at least it has the > > > valve cover on :) What quick test would I run on it (if any?) to > > > decide whether to ditch it for $75 or to learn that it had more > > > value?
> > > Mark
> > The quick test is the compression test. But do this first;
> > pull off the valve cover, remove the spark plugs, and turn the > > engine over by hand. Do the valve components move up and down smoothly > > and do you see any rust on the cam lobes or chain. If this is looking > > good good, turn the engine over until the notch in the camshaft > > (driver side) faces up. You will see it appear in the driver side cam > > bearing. When the notch appears, look at the pulley on the > > flywheel and see if the notch in it is opposite the "T" mark on the engine > > casing (you can also check to see if the pistons are at top dead > > center). It should be fairly close to being lined up. If it > > isn't, don't go to the next step because you may bend a valve.
> > If it is lined up, the next thing to do is squirt some oil on the > > components under the valve cover, squirt a little oil in each > > cylinder, and connect a battery to the starter motor to run a > > compression test (the engine doesn't need any gas for this test and removing > > the carb may give a more accurate reading). A good reading would be > > 160 psi for each cylinder. If you are getting good > > compression, you have an engine which is a good candidate to be a > > running motor.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > Discover the variety of Bisquick� mix.
> > Get Recipes Savings
> > Now.