Driving without a cooling fan?

[Mike]

I just purchased a z600 Coupe that is located in Texas. It runs and drives, but is missing the engine cooling fan. I have heard these cars can be driven without the fan as long as they keep moving. I was hoping to drive the car back to Missouri, which is where I live.
Would it be a really bad idea to try to drive this car without the fan? I would only drive at night, when it's cooller.
I have found a fan with shroud and pulleys on ebay. I suppose I could take the fan with me to Texas, install it, and then drive back. Assuming the fan fits. It's ebay description says it will fit the coupe.
If I take the fan with me, I will also need the fan belt. Is this something I can get at most part stores?
Comments are very greatly appreciated. I've been wanting to get a Honda 600 for some time, and I'm very excited to have found one for a descent price. Though of course it needs a little work.
thanks,
Mike.

[Mark Beckwith]

I've done this once or twice with other cars without issue. You have to
watch the temp at stop lights, etc. Common sense. Back in the old days
"they" said the cooling fan only came into play when the car was stopped.
Many products have been developed over the years to reduce the amount of
power used by a fan that basically has no value at highway speeds - Electric
thermostatically actuated cooling fans like many cars have and also
mechanical fan clutches that only engage the fan at very low RsPM.
If it was me and I had an engine temp gauge (shows how little I know about
600s - do they have a temp gauge?) I would not hesitate to at least give it
a shot around town and watch the gauge. If I was satisfied I'd look forward
to that all-night drive and have a good road trip adventure.
Mark Beckwith

[zinc2u]

It would be a bad idea to drive the car from Texas to Missouri this time of year.  You could get away with it in winter but not now.  Even at night the temperatures will be in the 60s and 70s.   Since you don't have a temperature gauge on the car,  you will not know when the car is overheating until it is too late.  Once the engine oil overheats and loses viscosity,  you have given your car a death sentence.
You can get fan belts at your local auto parts store.
You could purchase an electric fan for your car and connect it to the back area and let it run.  You will not have the shroud to help channel the air and so it will not be as effective as the stock fan.  Before installing a fan (electric or stock mechanical),  clean the fins of the cylinder block to remove any grime.
good luck,
Dale
PS   water is a good cooling method and I have a friend who considered hooking up a water misting system to cool the engine.  While this method will work and is very effective,  it has 2 major downsides (1)  the steam which is created looks like smoke and draws a lot of attention and (2)  the steam tends to make things corrode quicker under the hood

> I just
> purchased a z600 Coupe that is located in Texas. It runs and drives, but is > missing the engine cooling fan. I have heard these cars can be driven without > the fan as long as they keep moving. I was hoping to drive the car back to > Missouri, which is where I live.
> Would it be a really bad idea to try
> to drive this car without the fan? I would only drive at night, when it's > cooller.
> I have found a fan with shroud and pulleys on ebay. I suppose > I could take the fan with me to Texas, install it, and then drive back.
> Assuming the fan fits. It's ebay description says it will fit the coupe.
> If
> I take the fan with me, I will also need the fan belt. Is this something I can > get at most part stores?

Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday!

[blake neilson]

I have driven mine without the fan in July with no problem. I shut off the engine as I was coasting down for stoplights and started it when the light turned green.
Hopefully you won't have a long distance to go to hit the highway.  Once you do get to the highway, the forced air at speeds above 50 MPH will be more than sufficient to keep the engine cool.  Any vehicle gets more than enough airflow at 50 MPH and above.

--- On
Wed, 6/17/09, Mike

wrote:
From: Mike
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Driving without a cooling fan?
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 7:18 AM
I just purchased a z600 Coupe that is located in Texas. It runs and drives, but is missing the engine cooling fan. I have heard these cars can be driven without the fan as long as they keep moving. I was hoping to drive the car back to Missouri, which is where I live.
Would it be a really bad idea to try to drive this car without the fan? I would only drive at night, when it's cooller.
I have found a fan with shroud and pulleys on ebay. I suppose I could take the fan with me to Texas, install it, and then drive back. Assuming the fan fits. It's ebay description says it will fit the coupe.
If I take the fan with me, I will also need the fan belt. Is this something I can get at most part stores?
Comments are very greatly appreciated. I've been wanting to get a Honda 600 for some time, and I'm very excited to have found one for a descent price. Though of course it needs a little work.
thanks,
Mike.

[zinc2u]

You might be right or you might be just lucky.  While you might be traveling at 50 mph and you can feel the wind when you open the window or stick you hand outside the car,  this is not what the engine is seeing.  The air is being streamlined around the car and not much is being forced into the engine compartment without a fan.  Any air which does find its way into the engine compartment gets forced up through the vents or forced downward under the car.  If you put some crumped paper towels on the shelf which holds the air cleaner and take a drive,  when you open the hood later you will find the paper towels still in same general area ..... they don't seem to go anywhere.   When you get leaves on this shelf in the fall (because they enter through the vents in the hood),  they seem to remain on the shelf until you clean them out.  I always took this as an indication that the air flow inside the engine compartment was not very turbulent or high speed once you get away from the fan housing.
If you really are going to drive without a fan in the summer time,  I would recommend removing the hood.  At least this will let the heated air rise and draw in some cooler air.
good luck,
Dale

> I have driven mine without the fan in July with no problem. I shut off > the engine as I was coasting down for stoplights and started it when the light > turned green.
> Hopefully you won't have a long distance to go to hit the highway.
> Once you do get to the highway, the forced air at speeds above 50 MPH will be > more than sufficient to keep the engine cool.  Any vehicle gets more than > enough airflow at 50 MPH and > above.

Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday!

[friend]

Mike;
I wouldn't drive a Honda 600 an inch with out the fan and shrouds including the ones that attach to the wheel wells.
And, no, this is not an electric motor and it will not go on and off.
Mike look at it this way, the fan is behind the cylinders, it is there to cool down the cylinders by pulling air across the fins.  Stopping your engine at a stop light only adds to the problem by allowing the engine to sit and cook with out even the oil flowing through it.
By removing the fan you can cause the engine to over heat which bakes the oil that is between the cylinders and the pistons.  Once the oil is gone the cylinders begin to seize (causes the piston to melt) in really bad cases the piston will melt to the piston cylinders.
So by keeping the metal cool you are keeping the oil cool which in turn keeps the engine running.  The engine oil is the same oil used in the transmission on a Honda 600, if you don't keep it cool when it is lubricating the piston cylinder walls it will cook and turn to tar.   and, tar will not lubricate anything.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> blake
> neilson
> Sent:
> Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:13 PM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners]
> Driving without a cooling fan?
> I have driven mine without the fan in July with no problem. I shut > off the engine as I was coasting down for stoplights and started it when > the light turned green.
> Hopefully you won't have a long distance to go to hit the
> highway.  Once you do get to the highway, the forced air at speeds > above 50 MPH will be more than sufficient to keep the engine cool.
> Any vehicle gets more than enough airflow at 50 MPH and > above.
> --- On
> Wed, 6/17/09, Mike
>
> wrote:
> > From:
> > Mike
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners]
> > Driving without a cooling fan?
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Wednesday, June
> > 17, 2009, 7:18 AM
> > I just purchased a z600 Coupe that is located in Texas. It runs > > and drives, but is missing the engine cooling fan. I have heard these > > cars can be driven without the fan as long as they keep moving. I was > > hoping to drive the car back to Missouri, which is where I > > live.
> > Would it be a really bad idea to try to drive this car
> > without the fan? I would only drive at night, when it's > > cooller.
> > I have found a fan with shroud and pulleys on ebay. I
> > suppose I could take the fan with me to Texas, install it, and then > > drive back. Assuming the fan fits. It's ebay description says it will > > fit the coupe.
> > If I take the fan with me, I will also need the fan
> > belt. Is this something I can get at most part stores?
> > Comments
> > are very greatly appreciated. I've been wanting to get a Honda 600 for > > some time, and I'm very excited to have found one for a descent price.
> > Though of course it needs a little
> > work.
> > thanks,
> > Mike.

[TOM THIES]

I would think go ahead and give it a try if there where many engines and parts out there to fix it if it does not work.  As we all know the parts are getting harder to find all the time.  Seems kinda crazy to try when without a running engine the car is not worth very much.  Do what ever you can to keep the motor in GOOD running shape.  If you do run it that long without the shrouds and fan you may be cutting the life of the motor down a lot...  Is it worth it?
good luck with what ever you do.
Tom T

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> billmyong@...
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:19
> PM
> Subject:
> RE: [anzhonda600owners] Driving
> without a cooling fan?
> Mike;
> I wouldn't drive a Honda 600 an inch
> with out the fan and shrouds including the ones that attach to the wheel > wells.
> And, no, this is not an electric motor
> and it will not go on and off.
> Mike look at it this way, the fan is
> behind the cylinders, it is there to cool down the cylinders by pulling air > across the fins.  Stopping your engine at a stop light only adds to the > problem by allowing the engine to sit and cook with out even the oil flowing > through it.
> By removing the fan you can cause the
> engine to over heat which bakes the oil that is between the cylinders and the > pistons.  Once the oil is gone the cylinders begin to seize (causes the > piston to melt) in really bad cases the piston will melt to > the piston cylinders.
> So by keeping the metal cool you are keeping
> the oil cool which in turn keeps the engine running.  The engine oil is > the same oil used in the transmission on a Honda 600, if you don't keep it > cool when it is lubricating the piston cylinder walls it will cook and turn to > tar.   and, tar will not lubricate anything.
> Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:anzhonda600 owners@yahoogrou ps.com]
> > On Behalf Of
> > blake neilson
> > Sent:
> > Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:13
> > PM
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject:
> > Re:
> > [anzhonda600owners] Driving without a cooling fan?
> > I have driven mine without the fan in July with no problem. I > > shut off the engine as I was coasting down for stoplights and started > > it when the light turned green.
> > Hopefully you won't have a long distance to go to hit the > > highway.  Once you do get to the highway, the forced air at > > speeds above 50 MPH will be more than sufficient to keep the engine > > cool.  Any vehicle gets more than enough airflow at 50 MPH and > > above.
> > --- On
> > Wed, 6/17/09, Mike
> >
> > wrote:
> > > From:
> > > Mike
> > > Subject:
> > > [anzhonda600owners] Driving without a cooling fan?
> > > To:
> > > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Date: Wednesday, June
> > > 17, 2009, 7:18 AM
> > > I just purchased a z600 Coupe that is located in Texas. It runs > > > and drives, but is missing the engine cooling fan. I have heard > > > these cars can be driven without the fan as long as they keep > > > moving. I was hoping to drive the car back to Missouri, which is > > > where I live.
> > > Would it be a really bad idea to try to drive
> > > this car without the fan? I would only drive at night, when it's > > > cooller.
> > > I have found a fan with shroud and pulleys on ebay.
> > > I suppose I could take the fan with me to Texas, install it, and > > > then drive back. Assuming the fan fits. It's ebay description says > > > it will fit the coupe.
> > > If I take the fan with me, I will also
> > > need the fan belt. Is this something I can get at most part > > > stores?
> > > Comments are very greatly appreciated. I've been
> > > wanting to get a Honda 600 for some time, and I'm very excited to > > > have found one for a descent price. Though of course it needs a > > > little > > > work.
> > > thanks,
> > > Mike.

[blake neilson]

The grille opening on a 600 is plenty large and the cylinders and head are mere inches behind.  The airflow across the cylinders at speed is substantial. After the air passes the cylinders it will slow down as the overall cross section of the engine compartment increases, which is why the leaves/paper towel don't seem to move.  When moving, the vast majority of the airflow exits below as on most other vehicles.  IMHO the hood vents are intended to allow hot air to escape when the engine is shut down (and the cooling fan is of course no longer spinning) so the whole engine compartment doesn't cook.
A motorcycle engine doesn't get clean air as it has to deal with the airflow being diverted by the front wheel.  A 600 does not have that to contend with.

--- On
Wed, 6/17/09, goinhm@...

wrote:
From: goinhm@...
Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] Driving without a cooling fan?
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 9:11 PM
You might be right or you might be just lucky.  While you might be traveling at 50 mph and you can feel the wind when you open the window or stick you hand outside the car,  this is not what the engine is seeing.  The air is being streamlined around the car and not much is being forced into the engine compartment without a fan.  Any air which does find its way into the engine compartment gets forced up through the vents or forced downward under the car.  If you put some crumped paper towels on the shelf which holds the air cleaner and take a drive,  when you open the hood later you will find the paper towels still in same general area ..... they don't seem to go anywhere.   When you get leaves on this shelf in the fall (because they enter through the vents in the hood),  they seem to remain on the shelf until you clean them out.  I always took this as an indication that the air flow inside the engine compartment was not very turbulent or high speed once you get away from the fan housing.
If you really are going to drive without a fan in the summer time,  I would recommend removing the hood.  At least this will let the heated air rise and draw in some cooler air.
good luck,
Dale
> I have driven mine without the fan in July with no problem. I shut off the engine as I was coasting down for stoplights and started it when the light turned green.
> Hopefully you won't have a long distance to go to hit the highway.  Once you do get to the highway, the forced air at speeds above 50 MPH will be more than sufficient to keep the engine cool.  Any vehicle gets more than enough airflow at 50 MPH and above.
Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday!

[friend]

Blake;
All you have said is true, and by placing a temp gauge sender in the drain plug of the Honda 600 engine and a cylinder head temp sender under the spark plug I found that while at speed the engine oil stayed at 165-185 for the oil and cylinder head stayed at 350.   When I hit a stop light after driving on the freeway at 65 mph the oil hit over 230 and the cylinder head headed toward 400.  I added an oil cooler that keeps the oil at about 190 and the cylinder head stayed right around 350.  But I still have the fan and shrouds attached.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> blake
> neilson
> Sent:
> Friday, June 19, 2009 5:56 AM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners]
> Driving without a cooling fan?
> The grille opening on a 600 is plenty large and the cylinders > and head are mere inches behind.  The airflow across the > cylinders at speed is substantial. After the air passes the cylinders it > will slow down as the overall cross section of the engine compartment > increases, which is why the leaves/paper towel don't seem to move.
> When moving, the vast majority of the airflow exits below as on most > other vehicles.  IMHO the hood vents are intended to allow hot > air to escape when the engine is shut down (and the cooling fan is of > course no longer spinning) so the whole engine compartment doesn't > cook.
> A motorcycle engine doesn't get clean air as it has to
> deal with the airflow being diverted by the front wheel.
> A 600 does not have that to contend with.
> ---
> On
> Wed, 6/17/09, goinhm@...
>
> wrote:
> > From:
> > goinhm@...
> > Subject: Re:
> > [anzhonda600owners] Driving without a cooling fan?
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Wednesday, June
> > 17, 2009, 9:11 PM
> > You might be right or you might be just lucky.  While you > > might be traveling at 50 mph and you can feel the wind when you open > > the window or stick you hand outside the car,  this is not what > > the engine is seeing.  The air is being streamlined around the > > car and not much is being forced into the engine compartment without a > > fan.  Any air which does find its way into the engine compartment > > gets forced up through the vents or forced downward under the > > car.  If you put some crumped paper towels on the shelf which > > holds the air cleaner and take a drive,  when you open the hood > > later you will find the paper towels still in same general area .....
> > they don't seem to go anywhere.   When you get leaves on > > this shelf in the fall (because they enter through the vents in the > > hood),  they seem to remain on the shelf until you clean them > > out.  I always took this as an indication that the air flow > > inside the engine compartment was not very turbulent or high speed > > once you get away from the fan housing.
> > If you really are going to drive without a fan in the summer > > time,  I would recommend removing the hood.  At least this > > will let the heated air rise and draw in some cooler air.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > > I have driven mine without the fan in July with no problem. I > > > shut off the engine as I was coasting down for stoplights and > > > started it when the light turned green.
> > > Hopefully you won't have a long distance to go to hit the > > > highway.  Once you do get to the highway, the forced air at > > > speeds above 50 MPH will be more than sufficient to keep the engine > > > cool.  Any vehicle gets more than enough airflow at 50 MPH and > > > above.
> > Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal
> > Everyday!

[blake neilson]

Where do you get those temp senders?  I would love to have them.  Thanks for the info, I had no way of supplying such objective information.
On a related note, I do recall very well that when Kawasaki introduced the original 900 Ninja it's oil temp was a concern to the magazine testers.  They considered operation at or above 300 degrees for the oil to be a concern and the Ninja at that time would come close to 300 degrees and if ridden very hard might exceed it occasionally.
To be clear, I certainly don't advocate running without the cooling fan but as the original owner of a 600 sedan (I still have it), back when it was my daily driver I did reach a point where the bolts holding the fan to the back of the engine either broke off or stripped out and I had no choice but to use the car to commute to work before I could fix it.
Thats why I'm interested in the sensors you mention.  When  I get mine running again I would like to put an electric cooling fan in place of the stock fan and those sensors would help me with setting up the controls for the fan.

--- On
Sat, 6/20/09, billmyong@...

wrote:
From: billmyong@...
Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] Driving without a cooling fan?
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 4:03 AM
Blake;
All you have said is true, and by placing a temp gauge sender in the drain plug of the Honda 600 engine and a cylinder head temp sender under the spark plug I found that while at speed the engine oil stayed at 165-185 for the oil and cylinder head stayed at 350.   When I hit a stop light after driving on the freeway at 65 mph the oil hit over 230 and the cylinder head headed toward 400.  I added an oil cooler that keeps the oil at about 190 and the cylinder head stayed right around 350.  But I still have the fan and shrouds attached.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anzhonda600 owners@yahoogrou ps.com] > On Behalf Of > blake neilson > Sent:
> Friday, June 19, 2009 5:56 AM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners] Driving without a cooling fan?
> The grille opening on a 600 is plenty large and the cylinders and head are mere inches behind.  The airflow across the cylinders at speed is substantial. After the air passes the cylinders it will slow down as the overall cross section of the engine compartment increases, which is why the leaves/paper towel don't seem to move.  When moving, the vast majority of the airflow exits below as on most other vehicles.  IMHO the hood vents are intended to allow hot air to escape when the engine is shut down (and the cooling fan is of course no longer spinning) so the whole engine compartment doesn't cook.
> A motorcycle engine doesn't get clean air as it has to deal with the airflow being diverted by the front wheel.  A 600 does not have that to contend with.
> --- On
> Wed, 6/17/09, goinhm@...
>
> wrote:
> > From: goinhm@...
> > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] Driving without a cooling fan?
> > To: anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 9:11 PM
> > You might be right or you might be just lucky.  While you might be traveling at 50 mph and you can feel the wind when you open the window or stick you hand outside the car,  this is not what the engine is seeing.  The air is being streamlined around the car and not much is being forced into the engine compartment without a fan.  Any air which does find its way into the engine compartment gets forced up through the vents or forced downward under the car.  If you put some crumped paper towels on the shelf which holds the air cleaner and take a drive,  when you open the hood later you will find the paper towels still in same general area ..... they don't seem to go anywhere.   When you get leaves on this shelf in the fall (because they enter through the vents in the hood),  they seem to remain on the shelf until you clean them out.  I always took this as an indication that the air flow inside the engine > > compartment was not very turbulent or high speed once you get away from the fan housing.
> > If you really are going to drive without a fan in the summer time,  I would recommend removing the hood.  At least this will let the heated air rise and draw in some cooler air.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > > I have driven mine without the fan in July with no problem. I shut off the engine as I was coasting down for stoplights and started it when the light turned green.
> > > Hopefully you won't have a long distance to go to hit the highway.  Once you do get to the highway, the forced air at speeds above 50 MPH will be more than sufficient to keep the engine cool.  Any vehicle gets more than enough airflow at 50 MPH and above.
> > Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday!