Electrical Question

[franknfike]

Let me start by saying I am noooooo electrician and I need help. Here is what I have run into:
I dropped the engine out of my 600 sedan then took out everything in the engine bay. I welded up a couple of rust holes, ground down a few rust spots then primered and painted the engine bay. I have re-run the wiring loom (no updates, no changes), re-installed the rack and pinion steering, master cylinder, vacuum booster, fuel pump, engine and carburator.
When I hooked up the battery for the first time after re-installing all of the above, the dashboard discharge light came on immediately - the key was not even in the ignition. Then the end of the mounted clutch cable turned red and began to smoke. I unhooked the negative cable to the battery immediately. I then unmounted the clutch cable so there would be no metal to metal contact then reconnected the negative to the battery.
At this point there is no red hot metal or smoke but my fuel pump only works if I connect the negative to the engine. It used to work by attacvhing the negative to the bolt that holds it to the body.
Can anybody tell me what I might have done wrong and how I can fix it?
Thank you,
Tom

[TOM THIES]

I may be wrong and totally off track but it sounds like the motor is not grounded and maybe the only ground it could get is through the clutch cable.  Do you have the motor grounded?.  The motor sets on rubber so there is no ground there, Right?
hope this helps
Tom T

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> franknfike
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:40
> PM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Electrical
> Question
> Let me start by saying I am noooooo electrician and I need help. Here is > what I have run into:
> I dropped the engine out of my 600 sedan then took
> out everything in the engine bay. I welded up a couple of rust holes, ground > down a few rust spots then primered and painted the engine bay. I have re-run > the wiring loom (no updates, no changes), re-installed the rack and pinion > steering, master cylinder, vacuum booster, fuel pump, engine and carburator.
> When I hooked up the battery for the first time after re-installing all of > the above, the dashboard discharge light came on immediately - the key was not > even in the ignition. Then the end of the mounted clutch cable turned red and > began to smoke. I unhooked the negative cable to the battery immediately. I > then unmounted the clutch cable so there would be no metal to metal contact > then reconnected the negative to the battery.
> At this point there is no
> red hot metal or smoke but my fuel pump only works if I connect the negative > to the engine. It used to work by attacvhing the negative to the bolt that > holds it to the body.
> Can anybody tell me what I might have done wrong
> and how I can fix it?
> Thank you,
> Tom

[brad fenn]

I second Toms diagnoses.You dont have a ground to the engine.The engine is mounted on rubber mounts,so without a ground strap to the engine, the current takes whatever path it can, Clutch cable,speedo cable etc....  It will also go from engine to body, if body ground is missing.  So make sure your ground cable has good connection at the engine and the body. Brad Fenn   Classic Auto Service Dallas.
From:
TOM THIES To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Sat, February 13, 2010 4:58:43 PM Subject:
Re: [anzhonda600owners] Electrical Question
I may be wrong and totally off track but it sounds like the motor is not grounded and maybe the only ground it could get is through the clutch cable.  Do you have the motor grounded?.  The motor sets on rubber so there is no ground there, Right?
hope this helps
Tom T

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> franknfike
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent:
> Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:40
> PM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Electrical
> Question
> Let me start by saying I am noooooo electrician and I need help. Here is > what I have run into:
> I dropped the engine out of my 600 sedan then took
> out everything in the engine bay. I welded up a couple of rust holes, ground > down a few rust spots then primered and painted the engine bay. I have re-run > the wiring loom (no updates, no changes), re-installed the rack and pinion > steering, master cylinder, vacuum booster, fuel pump, engine and carburator.
> When I hooked up the battery for the first time after re-installing all of > the above, the dashboard discharge light came on immediately - the key was not > even in the ignition. Then the end of the mounted clutch cable turned red and > began to smoke. I unhooked the negative cable to the battery immediately. I > then unmounted the clutch cable so there would be no metal to metal contact > then reconnected the negative to the battery.
> At this point there is no
> red hot metal or smoke but my fuel pump only works if I connect the negative > to the engine. It used to work by attacvhing the negative to the bolt that > holds it to the body.
> Can anybody tell me what I might have done wrong
> and how I can fix it?
> Thank you,
> Tom

[Tom Feick]

Thanks guys. One other thing I just remembered-after i removed the clutch cable the clutch lever fell open which touched the side of the engine bay body and there were more sparks.
My negative battery cable is pretty old - some fraying and corrosion on it - could that possibly be the problem?

On Feb 13, 2010, at 5:48 PM, brad fenn wrote:
I second Toms diagnoses.You dont have a ground to the engine.The engine is mounted on rubber mounts,so without a ground strap to the engine, the current takes whatever path it can, Clutch cable,speedo cable etc....  It will also go from engine to body, if body ground is missing.  So make sure your ground cable has good connection at the engine and the body. Brad Fenn   Classic Auto Service Dallas.
From:
TOM THIES
To:
anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
Sent:
Sat, February 13, 2010 4:58:43 PM
Subject:
Re: [anzhonda600owners] Electrical Question
I may be wrong and totally off track but it sounds like the motor is not grounded and maybe the only ground it could get is through the clutch cable.  Do you have the motor grounded?.  The motor sets on rubber so there is no ground there, Right?
hope this helps
Tom T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> franknfike
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent:
> Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:40
> PM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Electrical
> Question
> Let me start by saying I am noooooo electrician and I need help. Here is > what I have run into:
> I dropped the engine out of my 600 sedan then took
> out everything in the engine bay. I welded up a couple of rust holes, ground > down a few rust spots then primered and painted the engine bay. I have re-run > the wiring loom (no updates, no changes), re-installed the rack and pinion > steering, master cylinder, vacuum booster, fuel pump, engine and carburator.
> When I hooked up the battery for the first time after re-installing all of > the above, the dashboard discharge light came on immediately - the key was not > even in the ignition. Then the end of the mounted clutch cable turned red and > began to smoke. I unhooked the negative cable to the battery immediately. I > then unmounted the clutch cable so there would be no metal to metal contact > then reconnected the negative to the battery.
> At this point there is no
> red hot metal or smoke but my fuel pump only works if I connect the negative > to the engine. It used to work by attacvhing the negative to the bolt that > holds it to the body.
> Can anybody tell me what I might have done wrong
> and how I can fix it?
> Thank you,
> Tom

[TOM THIES]

�
what is most likely when the lever fell open the electric just followed the easiest route.  If the ground cable is in bad shape I would not take the risk and replace it.  I dont know how the ground is set up on the Sedan but I am sure it has to be connected to the body of the car and the motor,  at least that is the way it is on the coupe.  I am surprised the main fuse did on blow at that point.  You will need to check it.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Tom
> Feick
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:29
> PM
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners]
> Electrical Question
> Thanks guys. One other thing I just remembered-after i removed the clutch > cable the clutch lever fell open which touched the side of the engine bay body > and there were more sparks.
> My negative battery cable is pretty old - some fraying and corrosion on > it - could that possibly be the problem?
> On Feb 13, 2010, at 5:48 PM, brad fenn classicauto2830@ att.net
> wrote:
> > I second Toms diagnoses.You dont have a ground to the engine.The engine > > is mounted on rubber mounts,so without a ground strap to the engine, the > > current takes whatever path it can, Clutch cable,speedo cable etc....
> > It will also go from engine to body, if body ground is missing.  So > > make sure your ground cable has good connection at the engine and the body.
> > Brad Fenn   Classic Auto Service Dallas.
> > From:
> > TOM THIES
> >
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Sat, February 13, 2010 4:58:43
> > PM
> > Subject:
> > Re:
> > [anzhonda600owners] Electrical Question
> > I may be wrong and totally off track but it sounds like the motor > > is not grounded and maybe the only ground it could get is through the > > clutch cable.  Do you have the motor grounded?.  The motor > > sets on rubber so there is no ground there, Right?
> > hope this helps
> > Tom T
> > > -----
> > > Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > franknfike
> > > To:
> > > anzhonda600owners@
> > > yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent:
> > > Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:40 PM
> > > Subject:
> > > [anzhonda600owners] Electrical Question
> > > Let me start by saying I am noooooo electrician and I need help. Here > > > is what I have run into:
> > > I dropped the engine out of my 600 sedan then
> > > took out everything in the engine bay. I welded up a couple of rust holes, > > > ground down a few rust spots then primered and painted the engine bay. I > > > have re-run the wiring loom (no updates, no changes), re-installed the > > > rack and pinion steering, master cylinder, vacuum booster, fuel pump, > > > engine and carburator.
> > > When I hooked up the battery for the first time
> > > after re-installing all of the above, the dashboard discharge light came > > > on immediately - the key was not even in the ignition. Then the end of the > > > mounted clutch cable turned red and began to smoke. I unhooked the > > > negative cable to the battery immediately. I then unmounted the clutch > > > cable so there would be no metal to metal contact then reconnected the > > > negative to the battery.
> > > At this point there is no red hot metal or
> > > smoke but my fuel pump only works if I connect the negative to the engine.
> > > It used to work by attacvhing the negative to the bolt that holds it to > > > the body.
> > > Can anybody tell me what I might have done wrong and how > > > I can fix it?
> > > Thank
> > > you,
> > > Tom

[brad fenn]

I used to work for VW back in the 70s,and a common problem seen on the Rabbits was shadetree shops putting in a battery that was too tall,so the neg cable wouldn't reach,they would yank on it to streach it and would brake the tab off the cable that grounded to the body.Customers complaint was it was ok until they turned on the headlights,then their speedometer would go to 120mph and started smoking.The headlights trying to find a ground through the speedometer cable. We would have to replace ground cable,speedometer,and printed circuit on back of the instrament cluster,not to mention install a battery that would fit.  It was a rather costly battery installation. So hopefully you haven't damaged other components.    Brad Fenn From:
TOM THIES To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Sat, February 13, 2010 8:08:57 PM Subject:
Re: [anzhonda600owners] Electrical Question
�
what is most likely when the lever fell open the electric just followed the easiest route.  If the ground cable is in bad shape I would not take the risk and replace it.  I dont know how the ground is set up on the Sedan but I am sure it has to be connected to the body of the car and the motor,  at least that is the way it is on the coupe.  I am surprised the main fuse did on blow at that point.  You will need to check it.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Tom
> Feick
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Cc:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent:
> Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:29
> PM
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners]
> Electrical Question
> Thanks guys. One other thing I just remembered-after i removed the clutch > cable the clutch lever fell open which touched the side of the engine bay body > and there were more sparks.
> My negative battery cable is pretty old - some fraying and corrosion on > it - could that possibly be the problem?
> On Feb 13, 2010, at 5:48 PM, brad fenn classicauto2830@ att.net
> wrote:
> > I second Toms diagnoses.You dont have a ground to the engine.The engine > > is mounted on rubber mounts,so without a ground strap to the engine, the > > current takes whatever path it can, Clutch cable,speedo cable etc....
> > It will also go from engine to body, if body ground is missing.  So > > make sure your ground cable has good connection at the engine and the body.
> > Brad Fenn   Classic Auto Service Dallas.
> > From:
> > TOM THIES
> >
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Sat, February 13, 2010 4:58:43
> > PM
> > Subject:
> > Re:
> > [anzhonda600owners] Electrical Question
> > I may be wrong and totally off track but it sounds like the motor > > is not grounded and maybe the only ground it could get is through the > > clutch cable.  Do you have the motor grounded?.  The motor > > sets on rubber so there is no ground there, Right?
> > hope this helps
> > Tom T
> > > -----
> > > Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > franknfike
> > > To:
> > > anzhonda600owners@
> > > yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent:
> > > Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:40 PM
> > > Subject:
> > > [anzhonda600owners] Electrical Question
> > > Let me start by saying I am noooooo electrician and I need help. Here > > > is what I have run into:
> > > I dropped the engine out of my 600 sedan then
> > > took out everything in the engine bay. I welded up a couple of rust holes, > > > ground down a few rust spots then primered and painted the engine bay. I > > > have re-run the wiring loom (no updates, no changes), re-installed the > > > rack and pinion steering, master cylinder, vacuum booster, fuel pump, > > > engine and carburator.
> > > When I hooked up the battery for the first time
> > > after re-installing all of the above, the dashboard discharge light came > > > on immediately - the key was not even in the ignition. Then the end of the > > > mounted clutch cable turned red and began to smoke. I unhooked the > > > negative cable to the battery immediately. I then unmounted the clutch > > > cable so there would be no metal to metal contact then reconnected the > > > negative to the battery.
> > > At this point there is no red hot metal or
> > > smoke but my fuel pump only works if I connect the negative to the engine.
> > > It used to work by attacvhing the negative to the bolt that holds it to > > > the body.
> > > Can anybody tell me what I might have done wrong and how > > > I can fix it?
> > > Thank
> > > you,
> > > Tom