crankshaft assembly

the_engine_room · Post by **the_engine_room** » Thu May 06, 2010 6:12 pm

Has anyone (successfully)tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft assemblies? I have one completely apart presently...Thanks, Mike

mterrens · Post by **mterrens** » Thu May 06, 2010 7:14 pm

This topic has been discussed here recently...look here.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/anz ... ndows-1252

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> the_engine_room
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, May 07, 2010 3:10 AM
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] crankshaft
> assembly
> Has anyone (successfully) tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft > assemblies? I have one completely apart presently... Thanks, > Mike

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Thu May 06, 2010 10:28 pm

Mike, I recently split a crankshaft for big end repair. still working on it. Why did you have need to split ? Marshall.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> Has anyone (successfully)tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft assemblies? I have one completely apart presently...Thanks, Mike

the_engine_room · Post by **the_engine_room** » Mon May 10, 2010 2:41 pm

Marsall, The crank had some rust and tightness to one of the rods, has been sitting for a while, I guess.I did press it apart, will clean it and inspect and report back. I also checked out some of the other comments, thanks to all for the info. Mike

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> Mike, I recently split a crankshaft for big end repair. still working on it. Why did you have need to split ? Marshall.
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> > Has anyone (successfully)tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft assemblies? I have one completely apart presently...Thanks, Mike

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:42 am

As has been mentioned earlier by contributors, Honda varied the dimensions of big end journal design.
I am splitting two cranks for repair....... one belongs to a manual engine, the other to a hondamatic. The difference between the two is not just left drive end design.
I have posted a photo showing big end journal difference. The one on the left belongs to the manual engine crank, on the right is the auto crank. The manual journal has a clear step up in diameter from splined face to journal face. The auto's journal does not, same original diameter for both @ 34mm. Sever wearing has occured with this one & sleeving is going to be needed.
The manual journal allows for skimming to be possible. Spline dia. reads 35.5mm, journal face 36mm.
It's just my bad luck that the very uncommon auto crank is going to need the most work......... ever optimistic though.
Marshall.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> Marsall, The crank had some rust and tightness to one of the rods, has been sitting for a while, I guess.I did press it apart, will clean it and inspect and report back. I also checked out some of the other comments, thanks to all for the info. Mike
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > Mike, I recently split a crankshaft for big end repair. still working on it. Why did you have need to split ? Marshall.
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> > > Has anyone (successfully)tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft assemblies? I have one completely apart presently...Thanks, Mike

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Tue May 11, 2010 2:38 am

Note: I should point out that the smaller diameter journal is not just peculiar to auto cranks. Honda changed the big end spec. for all their 600 engines. I could have found the auto having the stepped dimensions. Date of manufacture of each engine has determined my situation !

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> As has been mentioned earlier by contributors, Honda varied the dimensions of big end journal design.
> I am splitting two cranks for repair....... one belongs to a manual engine, the other to a hondamatic. The difference between the two is not just left drive end design.
> I have posted a photo showing big end journal difference. The one on the left belongs to the manual engine crank, on the right is the auto crank. The manual journal has a clear step up in diameter from splined face to journal face. The auto's journal does not, same original diameter for both @ 34mm. Sever wearing has occured with this one & sleeving is going to be needed.
> The manual journal allows for skimming to be possible. Spline dia. reads 35.5mm, journal face 36mm.
> It's just my bad luck that the very uncommon auto crank is going to need the most work......... ever optimistic though.
> Marshall.
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> > Marsall, The crank had some rust and tightness to one of the rods, has been sitting for a while, I guess.I did press it apart, will clean it and inspect and report back. I also checked out some of the other comments, thanks to all for the info. Mike
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > > Mike, I recently split a crankshaft for big end repair. still working on it. Why did you have need to split ? Marshall.
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> > > > Has anyone (successfully)tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft assemblies? I have one completely apart presently...Thanks, Mike

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Tue May 11, 2010 4:26 am

Lyle, Your thoughts on the following question would be appreciated :
2mm dia. rollers are being considered as stated earlier.
I can purchase loose with lengths of 15.8 or 17.8mm. The big end face width is 18mm. Is it out of the question to consider using 17.8mm width rollers, no roller cage, totally filling the big end with rollers contacting eachother ?
The theory would give substancial load distribution to the rollers, would such a thing work in practice ?
Marshall.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> Note: I should point out that the smaller diameter journal is not just peculiar to auto cranks. Honda changed the big end spec. for all their 600 engines. I could have found the auto having the stepped dimensions. Date of manufacture of each engine has determined my situation !
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > As has been mentioned earlier by contributors, Honda varied the dimensions of big end journal design.
> > I am splitting two cranks for repair....... one belongs to a manual engine, the other to a hondamatic. The difference between the two is not just left drive end design.
> > I have posted a photo showing big end journal difference. The one on the left belongs to the manual engine crank, on the right is the auto crank. The manual journal has a clear step up in diameter from splined face to journal face. The auto's journal does not, same original diameter for both @ 34mm. Sever wearing has occured with this one & sleeving is going to be needed.
> > The manual journal allows for skimming to be possible. Spline dia. reads 35.5mm, journal face 36mm.
> > It's just my bad luck that the very uncommon auto crank is going to need the most work......... ever optimistic though.
> > Marshall.
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> > > Marsall, The crank had some rust and tightness to one of the rods, has been sitting for a while, I guess.I did press it apart, will clean it and inspect and report back. I also checked out some of the other comments, thanks to all for the info. Mike
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > > > Mike, I recently split a crankshaft for big end repair. still working on it. Why did you have need to split ? Marshall.
> > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> > > > > Has anyone (successfully)tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft assemblies? I have one completely apart presently...Thanks, Mike

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 am

"Will it work without a roller cage, totally filling the big end with rollers contacting each other?"
Marshall, not for a high speed application.
To see why, take 3 round objects. One in the center (crank) and the other 2 touching it (rollers). As you rotate the center one clockwise , the other rollers rotate counter clockwise with it. Note what would happen if the rollers touched. The 2 surfaces are moving in opposite directions.
Must have a cage to keep the rollers from touching and locking.
Nothing is ever easy.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> Lyle, Your thoughts on the following question would be appreciated :
> 2mm dia. rollers are being considered as stated earlier.
> I can purchase loose with lengths of 15.8 or 17.8mm. The big end face width is 18mm. Is it out of the question to consider using 17.8mm width rollers, no roller cage, totally filling the big end with rollers contacting eachother ?
> The theory would give substancial load distribution to the rollers, would such a thing work in practice ?
> Marshall.
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > Note: I should point out that the smaller diameter journal is not just peculiar to auto cranks. Honda changed the big end spec. for all their 600 engines. I could have found the auto having the stepped dimensions. Date of manufacture of each engine has determined my situation !
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > > As has been mentioned earlier by contributors, Honda varied the dimensions of big end journal design.
> > > I am splitting two cranks for repair....... one belongs to a manual engine, the other to a hondamatic. The difference between the two is not just left drive end design.
> > > I have posted a photo showing big end journal difference. The one on the left belongs to the manual engine crank, on the right is the auto crank. The manual journal has a clear step up in diameter from splined face to journal face. The auto's journal does not, same original diameter for both @ 34mm. Sever wearing has occured with this one & sleeving is going to be needed.
> > > The manual journal allows for skimming to be possible. Spline dia. reads 35.5mm, journal face 36mm.
> > > It's just my bad luck that the very uncommon auto crank is going to need the most work......... ever optimistic though.
> > > Marshall.
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> > > > Marsall, The crank had some rust and tightness to one of the rods, has been sitting for a while, I guess.I did press it apart, will clean it and inspect and report back. I also checked out some of the other comments, thanks to all for the info. Mike
> > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > > > > Mike, I recently split a crankshaft for big end repair. still working on it. Why did you have need to split ? Marshall.
> > > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room" wrote:
> > > > > > Has anyone (successfully)tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft assemblies? I have one completely apart presently...Thanks, Mike

friend · Post by **friend** » Wed May 12, 2010 12:50 am

Marshall;
What is the engine number on the Hondamatic engine you pulled the crankshaft from?
I believe the 360 crankshaft is smaller and even differs from 600 in the parts manual listings.
Also, is your transmission a two wire or single wire shifting to the column?
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> Marshall
> Sent:
> Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:39 AM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [anzhonda600owners] Re:
> crankshaft assembly
> Note: I should point out that the smaller diameter journal is not just > peculiar to auto cranks. Honda changed the big end spec. for all their 600 > engines. I could have found the auto having the stepped dimensions. Date of > manufacture of each engine has determined my situation !
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> ,
> "Marshall" wrote:
> > As has been
> mentioned earlier by contributors, Honda varied the dimensions of big end > journal design.
> > I am splitting two cranks for
> repair...... . one belongs to a manual engine, the other to a hondamatic.
> The difference between the two is not just left drive end design.
> > I have posted a photo showing big end journal difference. The one on > the left belongs to the manual engine crank, on the right is the auto crank.
> The manual journal has a clear step up in diameter from splined face to > journal face. The auto's journal does not, same original diameter for both @ > 34mm. Sever wearing has occured with this one & sleeving is going to be > needed.
> > The manual journal allows for skimming to be
> possible. Spline dia. reads 35.5mm, journal face 36mm.
> > It's
> just my bad luck that the very uncommon auto crank is going to need the most > work........ . ever optimistic though.
> > Marshall.
> > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> ,
> "the_engine_ room" wrote:
> Marsall, The crank had some rust and tightness to one of the rods, has been > sitting for a while, I guess.I did press it apart, will clean it and inspect > and report back. I also checked out some of the other comments, thanks to all > for the info. Mike
> > > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> ,
> "Marshall" wrote:
> > > > Mike,
> I recently split a crankshaft for big end repair. still working on it. Why did > you have need to split ? Marshall.
> > > > --- In
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> ,
> "the_engine_ room" wrote:
> > > > Has anyone (successfully) tried to rebuild one of these > crankshaft assemblies? I have one completely apart presently... Thanks, > Mike

Marshall · Post by **Marshall** » Wed May 12, 2010 6:49 am

Holy Smoke Bill, the way you put the question had me dashing to the workshop to check the number because it is single wire shifting to the columb.
It is with relief that I can tell you the engine number of the engine I received without barrels or head is N600E-5002489.
You had me wondering for a second if what I had was the bottom end of a 360 !
Is single wire column change an early design ? The manuals I have seen all show the double wire.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, wrote:
> Marshall;
> What is the engine number on the Hondamatic engine you pulled the crankshaft
> from?
> I believe the 360 crankshaft is smaller and even differs from 600 in the
> parts manual listings.
> Also, is your transmission a two wire or single wire shifting to the column?
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of Marshall
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:39 AM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: crankshaft assembly
> Note: I should point out that the smaller diameter journal is not just
> peculiar to auto cranks. Honda changed the big end spec. for all their 600
> engines. I could have found the auto having the stepped dimensions. Date of
> manufacture of each engine has determined my situation !
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall" wrote:
> > As has been mentioned earlier by contributors, Honda varied the
> dimensions of big end journal design.
> > I am splitting two cranks for repair....... one belongs to a manual
> engine, the other to a hondamatic. The difference between the two is not
> just left drive end design.
> > I have posted a photo showing big end journal difference. The one on the
> left belongs to the manual engine crank, on the right is the auto crank. The
> manual journal has a clear step up in diameter from splined face to journal
> face. The auto's journal does not, same original diameter for both @ 34mm.
> Sever wearing has occured with this one & sleeving is going to be needed.
> > The manual journal allows for skimming to be possible. Spline dia. reads
> 35.5mm, journal face 36mm.
> > It's just my bad luck that the very uncommon auto crank is going to need
> the most work......... ever optimistic though.
> > Marshall.
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room"
> wrote:
> > > Marsall, The crank had some rust and tightness to one of the rods, has
> been sitting for a while, I guess.I did press it apart, will clean it and
> inspect and report back. I also checked out some of the other comments,
> thanks to all for the info. Mike
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Marshall"
> wrote:
> > > > Mike, I recently split a crankshaft for big end repair. still
> working on it. Why did you have need to split ? Marshall.
> > > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "the_engine_room"
> wrote:
> > > > > Has anyone (successfully)tried to rebuild one of these crankshaft
> assemblies? I have one completely apart presently...Thanks, Mike