My engine was eating metal parts for breakfast

[Mega]

You never know what you will find when you take an engine apart. Even an engine that was running OK will still surprise you with evidence of past catastrophes once you look inside.
Upon removing the pistons, I found large chips and gouges in the tops of them, and even ugly chips, gouges, and smashed pieces of metal in the cylinder heads.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0810.jpg
I used a file to clean up the tops of the pistons. I had to use a hammer and small chisel to remove small pieces of metal that had been smashed into my cylinder heads. This metal was some sort of hardened steal and slightly magnetic. I also used the file to smooth out some of the rough surfaces on the cylinder heads.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0811.jpg
I was very curious what it was that entered my combustion chamber and caused such damage. It was when I started cleaning my valves that I realized what the small pieces of metal came from. They are the same color and metal type and size as one of my valve keepers. Apparently, some one dropped a valve keeper into the intake and never bothered to take it out. They did go through the trouble of finding another valve keeper, since I'm not missing any, but they did not seam to think it was necessary to remove the keeper that fell into the intake. Maybe they didn't know it fell into the intake???
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0816.jpg
That's a picture of one of my good keepers next to all the pieces of a smashed keeper that I removed from the cylinder heads.
I can't help but wonder why they continued to drive the engine when it must have been making a horrible banging noise as it litteraly chewed up the valve keeper and then pounded it into the cylinder head.
It sure is a tough engine considering it was running OK when I obtained it.
I know I should replace the pistons and the cylinder head, but I'm not going to, unless I find either or both for a really good price.
If Burt Munro can cast his own pistons in his backyard, I'm sure my filed down pistons will be fine. Though Burt's pistons never lasted very long.... :-)

[brad fenn]

I have seen it before,in which a valve keeper got away and the mechanic went and found another only to find the lost one when he started the engine. Sometimes something gets in the cylinder and the first time the piston hits it, it embeds it into cylinder head and later comes dislodged,maybe at high RPM. And if it does start knocking,before they pinpoint the source of the noise it stops knocking,so they just run with it.  My main concern about using the damaged pistons is possibility of unseen stress cracks.I would suggest if you want to clean up and use damaged pistons,that you might find a place that can magnaflux them to check for stress cracks. I used to work on airplanes some years back,and magnafluxing engine components was very common if you questioned the integrity of a part.
From:
Mega To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Tue, June 22, 2010 2:48:53 PM Subject:
[anzhonda600owners] My engine was eating metal parts for breakfast
You never know what you will find when you take an engine apart. Even an engine that was running OK will still surprise you with evidence of past catastrophes once you look inside.
Upon removing the pistons, I found large chips and gouges in the tops of them, and even ugly chips, gouges, and smashed pieces of metal in the cylinder heads.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0810.jpg
I used a file to clean up the tops of the pistons. I had to use a hammer and small chisel to remove small pieces of metal that had been smashed into my cylinder heads. This metal was some sort of hardened steal and slightly magnetic. I also used the file to smooth out some of the rough surfaces on the cylinder heads.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0811.jpg
I was very curious what it was that entered my combustion chamber and caused such damage. It was when I started cleaning my valves that I realized what the small pieces of metal came from. They are the same color and metal type and size as one of my valve keepers. Apparently, some one dropped a valve keeper into the intake and never bothered to take it out. They did go through the trouble of finding another valve keeper, since I'm not missing any, but they did not seam to think it was necessary to remove the keeper that fell into the intake. Maybe they didn't know it fell into the intake???
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0816.jpg That's a picture of one of my good keepers next to all the pieces of a smashed keeper that I removed from the cylinder heads.
I can't help but wonder why they continued to drive the engine when it must have been making a horrible banging noise as it litteraly chewed up the valve keeper and then pounded it into the cylinder head.
It sure is a tough engine considering it was running OK when I obtained it.
I know I should replace the pistons and the cylinder head, but I'm not going to, unless I find either or both for a really good price.
If Burt Munro can cast his own pistons in his backyard, I'm sure my filed down pistons will be fine. Though Burt's pistons never lasted very long.... :-)

[zinc2u]

Hi Mike,
    I would not use those pistons.  Did you mention you are taking an auto class in school?  If so,  mention to your teacher that you are considering using those pistons in your car and share his comments with us.  I think your pistons would make a good ashtray, though.
Dale

> Upon
> removing the pistons, I found large chips and gouges in the tops of them, and > even ugly chips, gouges, and smashed pieces of metal in the cylinder > heads.
> http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0810.jpg

[Mega]

I think Burt Munro Would have said the same thing about my pistons. I know they look kind of bad, and there is a possibillity of stress cracks forming where the pieces of metal dug into the piston.
I would like to replace them, for sure.
However, these pistons are not so easy to come by. If I knew where I could find a pair of pistons that won't cost my arm and leg, then I'd take em.
Although my Professor highly recommends replacing if possible, he also said my engine will quite likely be OK if I reuse these pistons for a couple reasons.
1. The engine was actually still running OK when we took it apart. I drove it all the way from Texas to Missouri with out any trouble.
2. My personal driving habits are more comparable to my grandma than to a typical guy my age. I will very rarely exceed 4000 rpms, and will usually not go much over 3000.
3. Visual inspection doesn't show anything extremely bad to worry about.
and one more reason:
4. I also told my professor that I really only need to get about 25,000 miles out of this car. I don't typically put a lot of miles on a car per year.
I share your concern, but am none the less confident that my pistons will be all right(knocking on large piece of wood). :-)

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> I would not use those pistons. Did you mention you are taking an auto
> class in school? If so, mention to your teacher that you are considering
> using those pistons in your car and share his comments with us. I think
> your pistons would make a good ashtray, though.
> Dale
> Upon removing the pistons, I found large chips and gouges in the tops of
> them, and even ugly chips, gouges, and smashed pieces of metal in the
> cylinder heads.
> _
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... s/HPIM0810
> .jpg_
> (
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/ ... IM0810.jpg)

[zinc2u]

Hi Mike,
   If you are going to reuse the pistons,  I don't see any point in buying lots of new parts for your engine when used parts will suffice.  Take a look at your the Honda Sedan Shop Manual in the section on pistons and crankshafts and determine the following
1)  whether the cylinder barrel is within serviceable limits.
Make measurements near the top and bottom of the stroke,  front and read plus side to side to determine whether it is round and has a taper.  With this information,  you can decide whether you need to go to an oversize.  Let us know what size barrel you will end up with ..... std, 10mm,  20mm, 30mm, or 40mm oversize.
2)  If the barrel is fine, measure the pistons per the service manual and determine if they are within serviceable limits mentioned in the shop manual.
3)  check the piston pin diameter on the connecting rod (measure the rod diameter and the pin diameter).
See if they are within the limits.
4)  also measure out the crank to check whether it seems ok.
Then let us know what size pistons you need and if you are going to need oversize piston pins.
good luck,
Dale

> I
> think Burt Munro Would have said the same thing about my pistons. I know they > look kind of bad, and there is a possibillity of stress cracks forming where > the pieces of metal dug into the piston.
> I would like to replace them,
> for sure.
> However, these pistons are not so easy to come by. If I knew > where I could find a pair of pistons that won't cost my arm and leg, then I'd > take em.
> Although my Professor highly recommends replacing if possible, > he also said my engine will quite likely be OK if I reuse these pistons for a > couple reasons.
> 1. The engine was actually still running OK when we
> took it apart. I drove it all the way from Texas to Missouri with out any > trouble.
> 2. My personal driving habits are more comparable to my
> grandma than to a typical guy my age. I will very rarely exceed 4000 rpms, and > will usually not go much over 3000.
> 3. Visual inspection doesn't show
> anything extremely bad to worry about.
> and one more reason:
> 4. I
> also told my professor that I really only need to get about 25,000 miles out > of this car. I don't typically put a lot of miles on a car per year.
> I
> share your concern, but am none the less confident that my pistons will be all > right(knocking on large piece of wood).
> :-)

[lyletrudell]

Mike, good used pistons are fine like Dale said.
But, your pistons are not good, all those dents and pits will cause hot spots and pre-ignition. Worse the top ring area could be damaged and fracture under load.
Find a better cheap used set.
Also clean up the damage in the head chambers, that will also cause you problems.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> If you are going to reuse the pistons, I don't see any point in buying
> lots of new parts for your engine when used parts will suffice. Take a
> look at your the Honda Sedan Shop Manual in the section on pistons and
> crankshafts and determine the following
> 1) whether the cylinder barrel is within serviceable limits. Make
> measurements near the top and bottom of the stroke, front and read plus side to
> side to determine whether it is round and has a taper. With this
> information, you can decide whether you need to go to an oversize. Let us know
> what size barrel you will end up with ..... std, 10mm, 20mm, 30mm, or 40mm
> oversize.
> 2) If the barrel is fine, measure the pistons per the service manual and
> determine if they are within serviceable limits mentioned in the shop
> manual.
> 3) check the piston pin diameter on the connecting rod (measure the rod
> diameter and the pin diameter).
> See if they are within the limits.
> 4) also measure out the crank to check whether it seems ok.
> Then let us know what size pistons you need and if you are going to need
> oversize piston pins.
> good luck,
> Dale
> I think Burt Munro Would have said the same thing about my pistons. I know
> they look kind of bad, and there is a possibillity of stress cracks
> forming where the pieces of metal dug into the piston.
> I would like to replace them, for sure.
> However, these pistons are not so easy to come by. If I knew where I could
> find a pair of pistons that won't cost my arm and leg, then I'd take em.
> Although my Professor highly recommends replacing if possible, he also
> said my engine will quite likely be OK if I reuse these pistons for a couple
> reasons.
> 1. The engine was actually still running OK when we took it apart. I drove
> it all the way from Texas to Missouri with out any trouble.
> 2. My personal driving habits are more comparable to my grandma than to a
> typical guy my age. I will very rarely exceed 4000 rpms, and will usually
> not go much over 3000.
> 3. Visual inspection doesn't show anything extremely bad to worry about.
> and one more reason:
> 4. I also told my professor that I really only need to get about 25,000
> miles out of this car. I don't typically put a lot of miles on a car per year.
> I share your concern, but am none the less confident that my pistons will
> be all right(knocking on large piece of wood). :-)